BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

[Chigley]

Hi jollyjon,

Can I ask if you are LH or SH? I'm only asking because I'm SH LHR and in the last year since the crew compliments were changed I have yet to experience any issues with the delivery of the product or customer service as a result of the changes? We have just adapted and managed the changes.

Also, you asked spindoctor "what percentage of our salary are you prepared to give up?" Can I ask how much of our salary we have given up? As far as I'm aware not only are we still earning what we've always been earning but we've also been offered an almost 6% pay rise over the next 2 years.

[Spanner in the works]

I took two weeks unpaid leave last year.
And haven't had a pay rise for two years - based on my performance reviews in those to years I would normally be on 10% more than I am now.
I've had no bonus in that time either - which, again based on performance reviews would have equated to approx 15% of salary.

I know these weren't ALL my choices, that BAs performance dictated my pay - but that's the point. BA DIDNT make money - so, I didn't either.
In the long run, less earnings is better than none at all - especially with an employer as god as BA. Yes, as GOOD as BA. I have been here a long time and compare notes with peers in other companies doing work similar to my own and I am more than happy with my lot.

So, I became VCC - not as a personal protest - but to ensure my future earnings are in place in some form or another.

I can whine ad moan about it - and I do, believe me. But it's even more galling when certain departments are offered a pay rise and it's rejected.

Do you sort of see where the rest of the airline are coming from?

[The Blu Riband]

Regarding an offer, most people won't be satisfied with just having ST back. It's way beyond that now. Someone has to pull out the stops, before something nasty happens. Mark my words, it's only a matter of time.

What changes would you accept?

What 'nasty"do you refer to?

[jollyjon]

Hi Chigley, I'm LH. And I beg to differ. The changes work only if you have a straight forward service where nothing goes wrong. Never seems to happen on my flights. You would have to speak to product to get accurate and official feedback, of course. I'm glad your flights are so very smooth. Are you sure all your colleauges in SH are seeing the same picture as you? I don't think so.

Regarding salary, I have nothing to hide with my views. It's my opinion that I (can only spk for myself I suppose) would be happy to be part of some negotiation that offered me some sort of future finacial security in exchange for a salary reduction. Whilst it's all a bit of risk, with no real guarantee for a future job, then I'm standing firm.

The bottom line is, we've all got to work together, and a deal has to be struck that's workable for everyone. Surely you can't be enjoying this current climate?

[jollyjon]

Yes, I do SITW, but at least you had some direction. It's the unknown for us.

How long have you worked for BA? Probably a long time, like me. I don't want to give up 20 years of dedication by walking into a situation that finacially forces me out of my job a couple of years down the line.







Also where's my other post please? Why has it been hidden?

[Spanner in the works]

Regarding salary, I have nothing to hide with my views. It's my opinion that I (can only spk for myself I suppose) would be happy to be part of some negotiation that offered me some sort of future finacial security in exchange for a salary reduction. Whilst it's all a bit of risk, with no real guarantee for a future job, then I'm standing firm.

What "guarantee" do you want? What "guarantee" does any other job give?
All you can do is acknowledge the company have to be in a decent position to be able to keep you employed and achieve the best for yourself by compromised negotiation. Something patently lacking from the BASSA side of the fence since this all began.

[Spanner in the works]

Yes, I do SITW, but at least you had a direction. It's the unknown for us.

It's unknown for ALL of us.
It was even more "unknown" last year when the company could have gone one way or the other. Hence the need for negotiation with ALL departments to make savings.

We feel more secure now that the industry has taken a bit of an upward turn, but it's never far away from dropping like a stone. Another Ash cloud - security issues - you name it.

I would say you have had ample time to negotiate your future to be steered in an agreeable direction for at least the medium term. But BASSA appear to have wanted Long-term guarantees. Something no company, especially in the Airline business, can offer any more.

If oil goes up to $200 per barrel - perfectly possible in many scenarios - and we are stuck with a 10- year deal for all staff regardin terms and conditions - what would happen?
Bankruptcy - pure and simple.

[jollyjon]

Again, after 20 years, I would hope for some guarantee that I'm not going to be forced out of my role, just to be replaced by a cheaper mode a couple of years down the line. What is this, lay over, take what you're given and be thankful.

No thanks.

[JUAN TRIPP]

jollyjon

On EF I have to say I've had no photo finishes or had any real problems. What I will say that as a SCCM as long as you are organised and willing to work hard, there are no problems. However I know some of my colleagues I've heard complaining are generally those that complained before and for many years before that. From my days on WW the biggest problem seemed to me was that IF everyone worked together all was well, but that often unfortunetely the whole crew was not 'managed' in the most productive way.

By the way my CSD friends on WW have told me that MOST of the time its fine and that the biggest wingers are those that tended to not do a lot before the changes.

[Chigley]

Jollyjon:

Maybe I have just been very lucky, but I also haven't experienced any conversations down route, in the galley or in CRC on standby (when you get to hear all the gossip) that would suggest any of my colleagues on SH are having issues/problems with the compliment changes and the service?

With regards to the service working when the service is straight forward, well I would think that nothing has changed there then. I spent 8 years on LH and that was the case then.....all goes smoothly when straight forward but add something into the mix and it can all go horribly wrong.

I can only speak for myself, but in the run up to the 'Imposition' I recall many conversations with colleagues and we made it quite clear to Management through the web chats, ITP and face to face that we were happy to work harder if our money was to remain the same. With the crew compliments we got exactly what we asked for as no reasonable alternative was put forward.

With regards to getting solid financial and future job guarantees, can you tell me of any company, organisation or business that has offered this to employees? I can't and don't believe for a minute that BA would ever offer these to any area of it's workforce.

[jollyjon]

This company frittered Millions away on useless managers, all over managing each other, all being paid far too much.

And not to mention the cost of paying them off. Don't get me started on how this company has wasted money. Then there's the BOD salaries, the DOP salary, did that really warrant a £180K rise?

[jollyjon]

I beg to differ Chugley. And sadly, I think you are deluded (not being rude, but I mean it in the true sense of the word).

I don't have time to fully respond, but will do later.

Cheers.



Quote Chigley:Maybe I have just been very lucky, but I also haven't experienced any conversations down route, in the galley or in CRC on standby (when you get to hear all the gossip) that would suggest any of my colleagues on SH are having issues/problems with the compliment changes and the service?

I'm going to PM you two quite important ones that I can think of first hand.

[Chigley]

After my 20 years, I have been realistic and made a few reasonable changes which I believe will protect my future in my current role. I also hope that if the PCCC get recognition that I will have a council that will represent my views and help protect my future for longer......something that we have sadly lacked the last couple of years!

[fly12345]

Can I ask how much of our salary we have given up? As far as I'm aware not only are we still earning what we've always been earning but we've also been offered an almost 6% pay rise over the next 2 years.

Indeed, all this talk about lost earnings and no pay rise it is just rubbish.

[Hand Solo]

I agree, the company has frittered away millions on lots of managers, all managing each other. Do we remember one CSD and four Pursers for ten main crew on a jumbo? Strangely it's fine to cut the management numbers on the ground but when you cut them in the air that's different.

[123breath]

Quote by jollyjon; "This company frittered Millions away on useless managers, all over managing each other, all being paid far too much"

The thread entitled 'Market Rate for cabin crew' makes for recommended reading if you're going to start talking about people being paid far too much, although I would distance myself from any suggestion that BA's cabin crew are all useless That wouldn't be very nice, it's never good to generalize, and it's not something I believe. You should be careful with that.

Our useless managers, or the few that remain, are entitled, I think, to question why they should fritter millions away on expensive cabin crew (the militant ones on old contracts I mean, the rest of you are not the problem) who seem to be doing their level best to bring the company to it's knees (unsuccessfully, thanks to the rest of us, but that's not the point). How many forced redundancies have the IFCS department suffered in the last few years due to cutbacks, not including those amongst the useless management ranks?


Edited to add; I think we have finally found common ground between BA management and BASSA reps......useless managers/reps, all over managing/repping each other, all being paid far too much

[Spanner in the works]

Again, after 20 years, I would hope for some guarantee that I'm not going to be forced out of my role, just to be replaced by a cheaper mode a couple of years down the line. What is this, lay over, take what you're given and be thankful.

No thanks.

No-one has suggested you do this. Of course you don't - but what you do is recognise need for change and negotiate your way to it that allows compromise from BOTH sides.

WW ideal - all on MF.
BASSA ideal - no-one on MF.

The early offers compromised on the BA "ideal" but were thrown out by BASSA without negotiation.
So now we see MF accelerated. Surprised?

I'm sure there will be plenty of negotiations in the coming years due to new ways of doing things in the light of BA/IB/AA.
Either get on-board and negotiate your way through or continually block and let the company go through with their ideal scenario.

Work together to achieve the best compromised results for all. That doesn't always mean the best settlements for either side - but as I say - compromised settlements. Something has to give.

Has BA ever issued CR?
If not, do you think they have been in a position where CR would have suited the company more than other measures?

[Colonel White]

Jolyjon
If BA had too many managers that is hardly the fault of the current leadership team. They have had the dubious task of hacking back

the numbers. Was the severance deal overly generous? I know of several who took it and then found it took close to 12 months to get another job. Oh and the bulk of staff have accepted a pay freeze for 2years so the idea that crew deserve a 3% uplift this year and the same again next year is just a bit galling . Should crew get an improved deal over that offered in July? No.

[upperdeckpsr]

Are you calling us turkeys? I find that disrespectful and demeaning.

[R2D2-LHR]

Satire is sometimes lost on people........

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