BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Dingbaticus
You said previously that you believe that "imposition was a deliberate attempt to undermine my Union's right to collectively bargain for us (members)"
Quite an accusation, which conveniently ignores the fact that BA made it clear to all groups of staff in the spring of last year that failure to negotiate a deal to achieve the required departmental savings would result in imposition of changes to conditions for that department. BASSA knew that at the time, but did they communicate it to you? BALPA told it's members. I suspect that the answer is that BASSA did not tell it's members, and as we all know it then failed to reach agreement (or even negotiate!!!) by the deadline of 30/6/09, and subsequently issued a strike ballot over the issue of imposition.
My finger is still firmly pointing in the direction of BASSA.
Quite an accusation, which conveniently ignores the fact that BA made it clear to all groups of staff in the spring of last year that failure to negotiate a deal to achieve the required departmental savings would result in imposition of changes to conditions for that department. BASSA knew that at the time, but did they communicate it to you? BALPA told it's members. I suspect that the answer is that BASSA did not tell it's members, and as we all know it then failed to reach agreement (or even negotiate!!!) by the deadline of 30/6/09, and subsequently issued a strike ballot over the issue of imposition.
My finger is still firmly pointing in the direction of BASSA.
Last edited by 123breath; 24th Nov 2010 at 08:19. Reason: Refinement!
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DB
Good, eloquent posts and a welcome contribution, where to start?
FWIW Re job skills, I wholeheartedly agree. I would much rather have an experienced SCCM. Safety training is easy, a rule based response which you can try and teach to anyone with no idea of their competency until an incident occurs. People skills are acquired and I've had several potential incidents caused by junior crew defused by a wiser head. Good, experienced crew are a huge asset to BA.
Pilots weren't the deciding factor in the success or failure of IA, most of us were flying planes believe it or not. Sadly, this is another result of your union comm's being rather imaginative. On the flip side, several P's have partners who have 'lost staff travel'. It's not the black and white divide that your union would have people believe.
A lot of this could have been avoided if people HAD talked more before the strike, the confusion was horrendous e.g. I could have explained to the young guy that he wasn't going on strike against a pay cut, "No, that was your union's proposal".
You say that you think the strike prevented further attacks on your T's & C's, I have to disagree. BA was going to walk away after the crew cuts, the savings were made, end of story. Most of the junior crew seemed happy with that "I'm not working as hard as did at my last airline" or "at least we haven't had a pay cut". That would have been it for a couple of years until the next time. Yes, the reality of business is that there will be regular negotiations, for the rest of our careers, some good results, some not so good. Similarly some more senior crew saw the changes as reasonable and the lesser of many evils.
Everything else that has happened is the result of the strike and the appalling PR. Dismissing the issues behind this, what do you think most peoples response would be seeing a Jewish star on a jacket with BASSA written inside? My jaw hit the floor! I haven't met anyone who thinks the '12 days of Xmas' was a tactical masterpiece. As one attendee said "they showed the cheering at the ballot result but you could have heard a pin drop when they announced the dates". Another (striking CSD) said "we are now more unpopular than paedophiles, 'she' only got 5 pages of hate comments (on the news website).
Where to now? You say DH has an offer. Looking back at the letter I don't see it. Quotes: "There you are in one simple paragraph, 4 no-cost measures which BA can accept which could very well unlock the door and start the beginning of the end." or: "They could start by looking at my points above". This seems like four points he wants conceded before further negotiations. Mind you, what interest does he have in a resolution? He may be out of a job then?
UNITE have lost c. 500.000 members over the last couple of years and several of their senior figures have stated publicly how damaging this dispute has been for their image. Your cause was unfortunately hijacked for various candidates leadership campaigns. TW was about to present a fantastic offer, share options etc when A.N. other announced the strike thereby pulling the rug and BA rescinding the offer. Does it not worry you that DS described the BASSA negotiating team as 'a bunch of clowns' and 'they haven't a hope of winning this dispute'.
The court case over imposition has now been put to bed. Three Court of Appeal judges ruled unanimously that BA could impose the changes, no leave to appeal further was made, so that avenue is gone. UNITE were hit for costs which I would guess (from our own debacle) run into the millions. BASSA/AMICUS need an exit strategy, not a vague wish list and a few moans. We are now nearly two years downstream from when 'negotiations' started with no end in sight. Meanwhile BA have loads of new crew, are still training VCC's and the strike option (which personally I don't believe UNITE will allow) will be ineffective. Has BA been reducing the headcount of existing crew as 'New Fleet' comes online or are we presently over crewed... just in case?
I hope things are resolved as many friends, strikers included, have been let down by their unions handling of this. Good luck in salvaging a decent result.
Good, eloquent posts and a welcome contribution, where to start?
FWIW Re job skills, I wholeheartedly agree. I would much rather have an experienced SCCM. Safety training is easy, a rule based response which you can try and teach to anyone with no idea of their competency until an incident occurs. People skills are acquired and I've had several potential incidents caused by junior crew defused by a wiser head. Good, experienced crew are a huge asset to BA.
Pilots weren't the deciding factor in the success or failure of IA, most of us were flying planes believe it or not. Sadly, this is another result of your union comm's being rather imaginative. On the flip side, several P's have partners who have 'lost staff travel'. It's not the black and white divide that your union would have people believe.
A lot of this could have been avoided if people HAD talked more before the strike, the confusion was horrendous e.g. I could have explained to the young guy that he wasn't going on strike against a pay cut, "No, that was your union's proposal".
You say that you think the strike prevented further attacks on your T's & C's, I have to disagree. BA was going to walk away after the crew cuts, the savings were made, end of story. Most of the junior crew seemed happy with that "I'm not working as hard as did at my last airline" or "at least we haven't had a pay cut". That would have been it for a couple of years until the next time. Yes, the reality of business is that there will be regular negotiations, for the rest of our careers, some good results, some not so good. Similarly some more senior crew saw the changes as reasonable and the lesser of many evils.
Everything else that has happened is the result of the strike and the appalling PR. Dismissing the issues behind this, what do you think most peoples response would be seeing a Jewish star on a jacket with BASSA written inside? My jaw hit the floor! I haven't met anyone who thinks the '12 days of Xmas' was a tactical masterpiece. As one attendee said "they showed the cheering at the ballot result but you could have heard a pin drop when they announced the dates". Another (striking CSD) said "we are now more unpopular than paedophiles, 'she' only got 5 pages of hate comments (on the news website).
Where to now? You say DH has an offer. Looking back at the letter I don't see it. Quotes: "There you are in one simple paragraph, 4 no-cost measures which BA can accept which could very well unlock the door and start the beginning of the end." or: "They could start by looking at my points above". This seems like four points he wants conceded before further negotiations. Mind you, what interest does he have in a resolution? He may be out of a job then?
UNITE have lost c. 500.000 members over the last couple of years and several of their senior figures have stated publicly how damaging this dispute has been for their image. Your cause was unfortunately hijacked for various candidates leadership campaigns. TW was about to present a fantastic offer, share options etc when A.N. other announced the strike thereby pulling the rug and BA rescinding the offer. Does it not worry you that DS described the BASSA negotiating team as 'a bunch of clowns' and 'they haven't a hope of winning this dispute'.
The court case over imposition has now been put to bed. Three Court of Appeal judges ruled unanimously that BA could impose the changes, no leave to appeal further was made, so that avenue is gone. UNITE were hit for costs which I would guess (from our own debacle) run into the millions. BASSA/AMICUS need an exit strategy, not a vague wish list and a few moans. We are now nearly two years downstream from when 'negotiations' started with no end in sight. Meanwhile BA have loads of new crew, are still training VCC's and the strike option (which personally I don't believe UNITE will allow) will be ineffective. Has BA been reducing the headcount of existing crew as 'New Fleet' comes online or are we presently over crewed... just in case?
I hope things are resolved as many friends, strikers included, have been let down by their unions handling of this. Good luck in salvaging a decent result.
Dingbaticus,
Homophobia? Thats a new one! I haven't heard that mentioned before, with respect to this dispute. Has anyone else?
This dispute did feature homophobia and the feelings among the Cabin Crew were so high that, although they felt gagged from talking to the press, they organised a Silent Pink Protest on the last strike day , even Len McKlusky turned up in a pink shirt to support it.
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Ah yes, the 'homophobia'. That would be the orchestrated display of outrage deliberately staged in an unsavoury attempt to get somebody sacked. And who deliberately gave that information to the Daily Mirror I wonder? I don't know which was worse, the feigned offence at the comments or the genuine gnashing of teeth when the complainants realised BA would not play their silly game. The comments were no worse than the regular derogatory descriptions of flight crew or the CEO, or even non-striking crew one can find elsewhere.
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Two wrongs don`t make a right Yellow Pen; try and raise your debating a notch. 
The incidents in question were extensively discussed at the time they occurred.
Please do not re-hash them yet again.
Thank you.
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flapsforty
Member of the PPRuNe Moderating team.
The incidents in question were extensively discussed at the time they occurred.
Please do not re-hash them yet again.
Thank you.
_________________________________________
flapsforty
Member of the PPRuNe Moderating team.
The incidents in question were extensively discussed at the time they occurred.
Please do not re-hash them yet again.
Please do not re-hash them yet again.
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I can't wait until the Christmas period is over and all of my striking colleagues have had their friends and family away with them on Christmas trips! It won't be long after that that the strike talk starts again and, almost invariably, we see another walk out!
Well, now I'm at Gatwick, I'll be first on the list to put my name down to volunteer to do a cheeky little Shanghai!
Well, now I'm at Gatwick, I'll be first on the list to put my name down to volunteer to do a cheeky little Shanghai!
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A nugget gleaned...
There was some discussion earlier in this thread about what Duncan was getting as his honorarium as branch sec. I came across a statement by him where he said that he pulls in £50,000 a year, but that he hands back half of it to Unite. So he's picking up close to the equivalent of a maincrew salary on top of his BA pay packet. Details on Red Pepper Blog.
I presume the mods added the following comment.
I would point out that he was receiving this sum regardless of other earnings. I can only surmise that even in the current stuation he continues to draw it. I just wonder whether those BASSA members believe they are getting value for money from him in that respect.
I presume the mods added the following comment.
He no longer receives a salary from BA. He was sacked!
Last edited by Colonel White; 24th Nov 2010 at 22:38. Reason: added a bit more after my original post was edited by a.n. other
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locked door I'm sure your quite intelligent enough to realise that Posts like Eddies are doing nothing to help matters. It is not an observation it is a nasty comment and one that is not needed,
Last edited by dave3; 24th Nov 2010 at 22:08.
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If I remember rightly DH wasn't actually sacked, he retired in the nick of time to guarantee/protect his pension. So he is now completely independent of BA and can do what he wants without any retribution (except possibly withdrawal of retired staff travel).
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I received a newsletter in the post, from the Bassa Committee, with pictures on the front of those who had been sacked.
One was actually a duplicate photo of somebody who was reported on the next page as only under suspension, however, it was written by Bassa and the Secretary oversaw its content before it was "signed off".
Mr H was definitely on the front cover as one of those sacked by BA.
One was actually a duplicate photo of somebody who was reported on the next page as only under suspension, however, it was written by Bassa and the Secretary oversaw its content before it was "signed off".
Mr H was definitely on the front cover as one of those sacked by BA.
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He was suspended without pay when he didn't turn up for work at Christmas. I remember he said at the time that whilst suspended he started to draw down his pension.
He was sacked a couple of months later, appealed to an industrial Tribunal this summer but lost.
He was sacked a couple of months later, appealed to an industrial Tribunal this summer but lost.