BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
Well,
The colour yellow was touted, originally, as a colour that could be used to 'define' those taking part in the strike. The 'call to arms' from BASSA for the Kempton/Sandown park meetings was to show solidarity and wear yellow. It was only afterwards that the idea of yelloow 'supporting' the loss of life at Manchester was used. That never was, nor has ever been the original purpose of the 'yellow' which enables those who took part to recognise each other in a way that the company cannot influence thus enforcing the 'them and us'. To take it as anything else is naivety.
The colour yellow was touted, originally, as a colour that could be used to 'define' those taking part in the strike. The 'call to arms' from BASSA for the Kempton/Sandown park meetings was to show solidarity and wear yellow. It was only afterwards that the idea of yelloow 'supporting' the loss of life at Manchester was used. That never was, nor has ever been the original purpose of the 'yellow' which enables those who took part to recognise each other in a way that the company cannot influence thus enforcing the 'them and us'. To take it as anything else is naivety.
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It appears another striker has been suspended. BASSA are claiming he/she has been punished for daring to collect money to help out other suspended and sacked strikers. BA, naturally, have not stated the reason for the suspension. I wonder what the truth is?
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YELLOW PEN
Did the forum rise up as one in to protest feeling intimidated by this pseudonym?
Did one forumite raise so much as a whimper of complaint to the mods about how this pseudonym made them feel and ask it be changed?
Of course not – British culture is globally famed for its dark humour and satire.
Should I feel offended by its use as a humorous pseudonym?
Of course not, I may believe I have been robbed of my dignity, respect and justice but I still have my sense of humour and most importantly I can still laugh at myself!
All around me I see posters, phone numbers and even road shows to support the bullied and harassed. To be fair to employers, new employment law that came into force in October mean employees can sue the employer if they do not protect them from bullying and harassment form both fellow employees and customers.
Personally I wish politicians thought these things through, banter and humour are great stress relievers and I fear we are in danger of losing our British sense of humour – I feel I am being turned into a drone, Stepford like, smiling on the outside and screaming on the inside. No wonder so many workers complain of stress!
I feel that instead of dealing with the underlying cause of issues such harassment and homophobia, many employers find it easier just to sack the culprits. I believe this removes the symptom of the cancer, without addressing the root cause and successfully changing behaviour.
This dispute did feature homophobia and the feelings among the Cabin Crew were so high that, although they felt gagged from talking to the press, they organised a Silent Pink Protest on the last strike day , even Len McKlusky turned up in a pink shirt to support it.
In frustration at my own and my gay friends’ personal feeling that the underlying homophobia has not been satisfactorily addressed, I do the only thing I can do. I carry a pink pen.
Perhaps Yellow Pen would like to take a step in building bridges between our communities and change their pseudonym to
PINK PEN
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
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Identites
Wirbulsturm, if you read my posts again you will see I never suggested our identites were secret.
It was Pornpants1 in post 1437 who states
'only the naive would NOT know how to hide their identity'
I feel it naive to believe you can't be identified. I believe it is very likely my employer knows my identity and I believe what I post is monitored very carefully.
That is why few dare post (guess I am an andrenaline junky) and why I add a disclaimer at the bottom of my posts.
It was Pornpants1 in post 1437 who states
'only the naive would NOT know how to hide their identity'
I feel it naive to believe you can't be identified. I believe it is very likely my employer knows my identity and I believe what I post is monitored very carefully.
That is why few dare post (guess I am an andrenaline junky) and why I add a disclaimer at the bottom of my posts.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
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Someone was going round the CRC this morning in uniform with an upturned hat asking for money for BASSA.
I couldn't understand why the BASSA leadership had not impressed on it's members the danger that this sort of thing presents, together with handing out yellow pens at briefings, wearing BASSA lanyards etc etc. Certainly all the well known reps have been squeaky clean. Why not the members?
It wouldn't be that this is really now a personal vendetta by a certain leader who is more interested in prologing the misery than safeguarding his members' jobs, and that continuing suspensions keeps the pot simmering?
I couldn't understand why the BASSA leadership had not impressed on it's members the danger that this sort of thing presents, together with handing out yellow pens at briefings, wearing BASSA lanyards etc etc. Certainly all the well known reps have been squeaky clean. Why not the members?
It wouldn't be that this is really now a personal vendetta by a certain leader who is more interested in prologing the misery than safeguarding his members' jobs, and that continuing suspensions keeps the pot simmering?
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The person suspended, by all accounts, was not asking for donations. Crew in the know were approaching her to offer money to help her cause, to provide Christmas gifts to children of sacked / suspended colleagues. Hardly a huge crime? certainly not bullying and harassment as charged!
I can't help thinking this is slightly ironic, and only supports the views of the majority of the cabin crew, that current BA management are out of control.
The Witch hunt continues.
I can't help thinking this is slightly ironic, and only supports the views of the majority of the cabin crew, that current BA management are out of control.
The Witch hunt continues.
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If a CSD makes it obvious they took part in IA in the briefing, they have instantly alienated crew with a different view which is bad for CRM.
" anyone who voted NO can XXXX off now"
a poor advert for the crm qualities shown by some strikers.
don’t assume they are unprofessional and don’t care about their Company or customers
I believe that is why there has never (as far as I am aware) been a call to reinstate all the suspended and sacked, I believe DH 's request is for ACAS arbitration in the cases.
(iv) no victimisation (including full reinstatement of all those dismissed, and restoration to their former positions of all those otherwise penalised in this dispute – (the foregoing are now identified in the current offer documentation as “relevant employees” and “processed employees”);
I am informed that several crew - encouraged by Bassa reps and colleagues - felt they could challenge that authority; which unfortunately led to offloads and suspensions.
I agree that many of the disciplinary issues have arisen as a result of the dispute. But the cabin crew unions and leaders have continually made poor leadership decisions, and have frequently taken the view that the rules don't apply to them!
Many crew have mistakenly relied on Bassa and their reps, and other senior crew for advice and information which has either been misguided or , occasionally, deliberately misleading.
eg. The campaign to undermine staff travel, and the captain's authority, has directly led to several crew getting into serious trouble.
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We only have BASSAs word on the reason the individual has been suspended. She could have been suspended for something entirely unrelated, but we know how BASSA like to whip their loyalists into a frenzy.
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It has been a surprise to many that the "mis"- use of social networking sites could cause so much trouble. But it has!
Even before the list of crew-trained pilots was being passed around there was evidence of serious, and widespread, bullying and harassment.
We have all been briefed during SEP and other training courses to be conscious of the unacceptability of certain behaviours, and to understand how b & h is defined.
Many crew may now feel too "intimidated" to post on forums and networking sites, but they simply need to be knowledgeable about what may cause offence, and what BA may deem to be unacceptable.
Most of my colleagues have been quite shocked at the personal nature of the attacks on BA and its executives.
If Bassa and its members had stuck to the facts ,and less to rabble rousing rhetoric, they wouldn't be in the mess they are now.
Even before the list of crew-trained pilots was being passed around there was evidence of serious, and widespread, bullying and harassment.
We have all been briefed during SEP and other training courses to be conscious of the unacceptability of certain behaviours, and to understand how b & h is defined.
Many crew may now feel too "intimidated" to post on forums and networking sites, but they simply need to be knowledgeable about what may cause offence, and what BA may deem to be unacceptable.
Most of my colleagues have been quite shocked at the personal nature of the attacks on BA and its executives.
If Bassa and its members had stuck to the facts ,and less to rabble rousing rhetoric, they wouldn't be in the mess they are now.
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It wouldn't be that this is really now a personal vendetta by a certain leader who is more interested in prologing the misery than safeguarding his members' jobs, and that continuing suspensions keeps the pot simmering? 23rd Nov 2010 15:15
A few crew martyrs would do the job nicely.
There is a big difference between being sacked , and suspended.
I'm sure, like many of us, I worry that BA is being heavy handed, but I don't believe this to be the case.
If anyone complains ( another crew member or staff member perhaps) then BA are obliged to take action.
They cannot, under guidelines agreed with Unite, ignore a complaint.
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Once again, according to earlier posts today, Bassa appear to have encouraged some silly behaviour in their members and then complaining that they have been suspended by bullyboys at BA for "doing absolutely nothing" or "doing no more than....." or "simply being a good rep/union member....".
Last post copied on here, if it is ver batim, quotes the Bassa Chairperson as asking for calm and accusing other reps in Amicus of having "hissy fits" and describing the accusation from Mr Woodley of an Amicus Rep being a "terrorist" as a simple "out of context" comment.
The Bassa Chairperson then goes on a lot (sorry, but I couldn't somehow paste it) about how personal namecalling needs to end and the infighting needs to stop and we must all keep the faith. Is this the same person that has either stayed silent (or perhaps completely supported)with regards to the Bassa Secretary when he goes on another one of his public rants where he names and shames members and ex-members with derogitory and hurtful remarks on his forums ??
Is this the same Bassa Chairperson that supported the Bassa Secretary's latest drivel regards the Bassa & Amicus vs BA & Unite conspiracy? Now she wants us all to forget everything that the Bassa Secretary has previously broadcast and now take sides with Unite and start a BA & Amicus vs Bassa & Unite wrestling match ?
Who are the Tag Team Champions these days? I've been away for a few days.
I guess it's better than Monday Night Raw (but only just) IMHO.
Last post copied on here, if it is ver batim, quotes the Bassa Chairperson as asking for calm and accusing other reps in Amicus of having "hissy fits" and describing the accusation from Mr Woodley of an Amicus Rep being a "terrorist" as a simple "out of context" comment.
The Bassa Chairperson then goes on a lot (sorry, but I couldn't somehow paste it) about how personal namecalling needs to end and the infighting needs to stop and we must all keep the faith. Is this the same person that has either stayed silent (or perhaps completely supported)with regards to the Bassa Secretary when he goes on another one of his public rants where he names and shames members and ex-members with derogitory and hurtful remarks on his forums ??
Is this the same Bassa Chairperson that supported the Bassa Secretary's latest drivel regards the Bassa & Amicus vs BA & Unite conspiracy? Now she wants us all to forget everything that the Bassa Secretary has previously broadcast and now take sides with Unite and start a BA & Amicus vs Bassa & Unite wrestling match ?
Who are the Tag Team Champions these days? I've been away for a few days.
I guess it's better than Monday Night Raw (but only just) IMHO.
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Well documented snooping?
The Blu Riband, I assume you are referring to our refusal to break what at the time was Corporate procedure, punishable by instant dismissal and possible police prosecution?
Correct, the Captain is Commander but they do not have the authority to order me to break the law or face police prosecution! Now the rules have been changed(funny that), I comply. If it don't get me sacked not a problem!
If you saw my postings I hope you enjoyed them. I hold my hands up to making some pretty vicious ones too.
Why? I was angry at alleged spying on our private crew forums which allegedly had led to a couple of crew sacked over what was meant to be humour in a private environmemt.
I decided to give the snoops something to read, don't come trolling and expect to be greeted with hearts and flowers!
I actually have the greatest respect for pilots, I couldn't do your job and I trust you with my life!
BA pilots are a highly trained skilled work force. If you actually read all my posts you will see I have defended your terms and conditions in matters like use of jumpseats.
What has angered me is whilst I am expected to respect your terms and conditions I feel you have stomped all over mine!
It's true that you could train a monkey to open and shut doors and serve food. However, whilst I am not a pilot, I do know people, what makes them tick, what pushes their buttons, what makes them happy which is a skill too.
Customers may load their suitcases in the hold but they bring all their emotional baggage into the cabin. Our competitors may have better seats, IFE and food butI believe it is the Cabin Crew who keep customers coming back to BA.
Recognising a businessman is grumpy not because he did not get his meal choice but because he his business deal went wrong, offering TLC and a listening ear, quelling rowdy gamblers off to Las Vegas, offering compassion to someone travelling to a funeral - these are some of the skills that are what I believe make our brand different to the low cost carriers.
We were not fighting for more, we offered cuts yet the Company sought to impose, you may believe it was because our Union was squabbling and being difficult but my view was that it was an attack on my Union's right to collectively bargain on my behalf. We were balloted on that imposition and I went on strike over that imposition. Don't expect me to be happy at your actions - I would never like to see a return to 70's style striking but if I can't withold my labour I may as well be a slave.
Like the female Ford employees in 1968, I am fighting for my job to be recognised as skilled. You can lower the wages but I believe you will find it hard to keep the skills required that I percieve to be a vital componant in our identity.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
Correct, the Captain is Commander but they do not have the authority to order me to break the law or face police prosecution! Now the rules have been changed(funny that), I comply. If it don't get me sacked not a problem!
If you saw my postings I hope you enjoyed them. I hold my hands up to making some pretty vicious ones too.
Why? I was angry at alleged spying on our private crew forums which allegedly had led to a couple of crew sacked over what was meant to be humour in a private environmemt.
I decided to give the snoops something to read, don't come trolling and expect to be greeted with hearts and flowers!
I actually have the greatest respect for pilots, I couldn't do your job and I trust you with my life!
BA pilots are a highly trained skilled work force. If you actually read all my posts you will see I have defended your terms and conditions in matters like use of jumpseats.
What has angered me is whilst I am expected to respect your terms and conditions I feel you have stomped all over mine!
It's true that you could train a monkey to open and shut doors and serve food. However, whilst I am not a pilot, I do know people, what makes them tick, what pushes their buttons, what makes them happy which is a skill too.
Customers may load their suitcases in the hold but they bring all their emotional baggage into the cabin. Our competitors may have better seats, IFE and food butI believe it is the Cabin Crew who keep customers coming back to BA.
Recognising a businessman is grumpy not because he did not get his meal choice but because he his business deal went wrong, offering TLC and a listening ear, quelling rowdy gamblers off to Las Vegas, offering compassion to someone travelling to a funeral - these are some of the skills that are what I believe make our brand different to the low cost carriers.
We were not fighting for more, we offered cuts yet the Company sought to impose, you may believe it was because our Union was squabbling and being difficult but my view was that it was an attack on my Union's right to collectively bargain on my behalf. We were balloted on that imposition and I went on strike over that imposition. Don't expect me to be happy at your actions - I would never like to see a return to 70's style striking but if I can't withold my labour I may as well be a slave.
Like the female Ford employees in 1968, I am fighting for my job to be recognised as skilled. You can lower the wages but I believe you will find it hard to keep the skills required that I percieve to be a vital componant in our identity.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
Last edited by Dingbaticus; 23rd Nov 2010 at 17:42. Reason: add disclaimer
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What has angered me is whilst I am expected to respect your terms and conditions I feel you have stomped all over mine!
Perhaps you could clarify how you think I have "stomped" all over your terms and conditions. In what way have they changed at all?
I decided to give the snoops something to read
Now the rules have been changed(funny that)
I hold my hands up to making some pretty vicious ones too
Surely you must be very disappointed with your reps.
my view was that it was an attack on my Union's right to collectively bargain on my behalf. We were balloted on that imposition and I went on strike over that imposition
If we're talking of rights, then I'm cross with Bassa for behaving so terribly irresponsibly and undermining all workers, particularly BA staff, to take industrial action in the future.
You've screwed it up for yourselves, and for everyone else!
An industrial dispute has to justifiable and democratic, yours has not been, in my opinion.
If I'm supporting BA crew than I'm supporting ALL of you, including those who came to work.
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Dingbaticus, you said....
Just a few points there that I would like to take issue with!
The cuts offered by BASSA were insufficient to achieve the requirement from IFCE, they were also only offered as a loan! Every other workgroup in the airline saw the need for savings and contributed, YOU DID NOT!
Imposition came about after countless attempts by BA to negotiate a settlement with unions who refused to sit in the same room! With unions who were offered the opportunity to inspect the company's confidential financial data, but refused! Imposition came after the baying hordes at Kempton racecourse were seen on national tv screaming NO NEGOTIATION!!
At no time have BA tried to lower your wages or tried to end some of the ridiculous practices in use. The management of the airline (no particular friends of mine, I may add) have remained mostly controlled and reasonable throughout this sorry episode, contrast with the rantings and ramblings emanating from BASSA HQ.
BA have never tried to personalise the dispute, despite immense provocation from those supposedly leading the shambles of a union that you appear to belong to, a union that put in front of a high court judge a steward complaining about the newly increased workload that was being suffered, despite the fact that he had never worked with the reduced crew compliment!
Finally, communications from your leaders appear to go to great lengths to explain the ramifications of accepting the company's latest offer. They are somewhat quieter about the ramifications if it is not accepted!
We were not fighting for more, we offered cuts yet the Company sought to impose, you may believe it was because our Union was squabbling and being difficult but my view was that it was an attack on my Union's right to collectively bargain on my behalf. We were balloted on that imposition and I went on strike over that imposition. Don't expect me to be happy at your actions - I would never like to see a return to 70's style striking but if I can't withold my labour I may as well be a slave.
Like the female Ford employees in 1968, I am fighting for my job to be recognised as skilled. You can lower the wages but I believe you will find it hard to keep the skills required that I percieve to be a vital componant in our identity.
Like the female Ford employees in 1968, I am fighting for my job to be recognised as skilled. You can lower the wages but I believe you will find it hard to keep the skills required that I percieve to be a vital componant in our identity.
The cuts offered by BASSA were insufficient to achieve the requirement from IFCE, they were also only offered as a loan! Every other workgroup in the airline saw the need for savings and contributed, YOU DID NOT!
Imposition came about after countless attempts by BA to negotiate a settlement with unions who refused to sit in the same room! With unions who were offered the opportunity to inspect the company's confidential financial data, but refused! Imposition came after the baying hordes at Kempton racecourse were seen on national tv screaming NO NEGOTIATION!!
At no time have BA tried to lower your wages or tried to end some of the ridiculous practices in use. The management of the airline (no particular friends of mine, I may add) have remained mostly controlled and reasonable throughout this sorry episode, contrast with the rantings and ramblings emanating from BASSA HQ.
BA have never tried to personalise the dispute, despite immense provocation from those supposedly leading the shambles of a union that you appear to belong to, a union that put in front of a high court judge a steward complaining about the newly increased workload that was being suffered, despite the fact that he had never worked with the reduced crew compliment!
Finally, communications from your leaders appear to go to great lengths to explain the ramifications of accepting the company's latest offer. They are somewhat quieter about the ramifications if it is not accepted!
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Now the rules have been changed(funny that)
The abject refusal was that certain groups within the company decided that the way the rule was worded made it illegal as it was tantamount to 'fraudulant' practice. The rule was never intended to be taken the way that it was interpreted but was used by many BASSA reps as a way to ensure that a 'barb' was placed within the Captains authority.
Thus the rule has been clarified to ensure that there is no more confusion although I, personally, have had some difficulties in making myself understood and have taken to carrying a copy of the clarified rule with me. Interestingly on one flight I found that a CC member had been moved from the back to the front without permission as they were a friend of the pursers. No mention had been made of it but, after politely discussing it with the Purser and explaining that it would have been better (legal) if I had been informed the Purser involved apologised, said that she would ensure that permission was always sought in the future. Her friend stayed where she was, I was content as was the Purser.
Just because there is a minority carrying around yellow pens, bags, ribbons and XXXX crewmember tags doesn't mean that we don't have to support one another during our day to day business irrespective of our viewpoints. Sadly the only members of the crew who I have found to be less than enthusiastic with working are those who took part in the action which achieved nothing. If we have to work then, when the wheels leave the ground, lets at least conduct our business with some common courtesy to each other.
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Th Blu Riband, I stand corrected on the demand for the reinstatement of all the sacked and suspended. That would be impossible. This dispute has brought out the best and worst in us all (myself included) and some people have no doubt done things that are worthy of sacking and even police investigation.
Duncan now wants ACAS to deal with them which I think we are all satisfied with (except a few notable BSSSA supporters no doubt?
Yes, I am angry.
Angry at BASSA for not recognising earlier we needed to let the Company be able to manage without needing the reps approval for every little change, not recognising our agreements needed to be simplified and more user friendly. They took me by surprise at the amount of effort and ideas they had when asked for the savings, I was relieved as I believed it would all be amicably settled. You may have your world view but I believed the imposition was a deliberate attempt to undermine my Union's right
to collectively bargain for us.
I was angry at the pilots but as I have mentioned before there has been little dialogue. I have now had a chance to talk to pilots who volunteered and I do understand they were genuinely fearful they would loses their jobs in BA's 'Fight for Survival', with the airline being about to tip over the financial abyss. My anger has now passed and I always still socialised as I take people as individuals. Ironicly some of them have expressed a little anger themselves that we survived strikes and ash clouds and managed to post a profit and then pay some pretty hefty fines.
Most of all I am angry at myself for appreciating what our Union had won for us over the years but not being more actively involved. A modern Union has to allow business to change, grow, succeed. I believe both sides have learnt and with new faces coming into power I sincerely hope we can dust ourselves off, pick up the pieces and emerge from this period wiser.
Are you angry with me? If we can't bury the hatchet (preferably not in my back) then we will never heal the rifts. I can see we are never going to agree as you don't seem to grasp why I went on strike. What I will say is even you have a Union and with the merger of 3 airlines you may find yourself relying on your Union to protect what it has won for you.
************
I was referring to the FRAUD policy which our own managers were telling us to uphold.
Non compliance could mean gross misconduct, instant dismissal and possible police prosecution.
The line regarding fraudulant upgrading of friends or employees was originally in the policy and our managers told us were to uphold it or face dismissal and police prosecution.
Once they decided to remove that line the policy no longer applied to upgrading and our management changed their guidance to the Cabin Crew. I am still a little uncomfortable with suitability of some of the choices but I do not question, I only obey.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
Duncan now wants ACAS to deal with them which I think we are all satisfied with (except a few notable BSSSA supporters no doubt?
Yes, I am angry.
Angry at BASSA for not recognising earlier we needed to let the Company be able to manage without needing the reps approval for every little change, not recognising our agreements needed to be simplified and more user friendly. They took me by surprise at the amount of effort and ideas they had when asked for the savings, I was relieved as I believed it would all be amicably settled. You may have your world view but I believed the imposition was a deliberate attempt to undermine my Union's right
to collectively bargain for us.
I was angry at the pilots but as I have mentioned before there has been little dialogue. I have now had a chance to talk to pilots who volunteered and I do understand they were genuinely fearful they would loses their jobs in BA's 'Fight for Survival', with the airline being about to tip over the financial abyss. My anger has now passed and I always still socialised as I take people as individuals. Ironicly some of them have expressed a little anger themselves that we survived strikes and ash clouds and managed to post a profit and then pay some pretty hefty fines.
Most of all I am angry at myself for appreciating what our Union had won for us over the years but not being more actively involved. A modern Union has to allow business to change, grow, succeed. I believe both sides have learnt and with new faces coming into power I sincerely hope we can dust ourselves off, pick up the pieces and emerge from this period wiser.
Are you angry with me? If we can't bury the hatchet (preferably not in my back) then we will never heal the rifts. I can see we are never going to agree as you don't seem to grasp why I went on strike. What I will say is even you have a Union and with the merger of 3 airlines you may find yourself relying on your Union to protect what it has won for you.
************
I was referring to the FRAUD policy which our own managers were telling us to uphold.
Non compliance could mean gross misconduct, instant dismissal and possible police prosecution.
The line regarding fraudulant upgrading of friends or employees was originally in the policy and our managers told us were to uphold it or face dismissal and police prosecution.
Once they decided to remove that line the policy no longer applied to upgrading and our management changed their guidance to the Cabin Crew. I am still a little uncomfortable with suitability of some of the choices but I do not question, I only obey.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
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Dingbaticus,
Really glad to hear a measured pro-BASSA voice.
Just one point I need to make.
The 'upgrade fraud' problem was down to IFCE management. They took it upon themselves to emphasize the ambiguities of the missive from Asset Protection a couple of years ago. It was aimed at station staff down route who were taking back handers to upgrade pax prior to boarding. It was not meant to bugger up the upgrade for staff on board.
No one changed the rules but sadly the XXXX brigade managed to cut their noses off to spite their face and forced 'Asset Protection' to remove the subtle powers of SCCM's and place them firmly in the hands of the skipper.
If it's worth knowing, most skippers when asked, will honor any 'upgrade' you propose. So in effect nothing has changed, apart from (insensitivity unavoidable) the fact that a great number if crew have no ST. Just get your Union to accept the proposal and we'll be back to a more formalized square 1 on upgrades.
Really glad to hear a measured pro-BASSA voice.
Just one point I need to make.
The 'upgrade fraud' problem was down to IFCE management. They took it upon themselves to emphasize the ambiguities of the missive from Asset Protection a couple of years ago. It was aimed at station staff down route who were taking back handers to upgrade pax prior to boarding. It was not meant to bugger up the upgrade for staff on board.
No one changed the rules but sadly the XXXX brigade managed to cut their noses off to spite their face and forced 'Asset Protection' to remove the subtle powers of SCCM's and place them firmly in the hands of the skipper.
If it's worth knowing, most skippers when asked, will honor any 'upgrade' you propose. So in effect nothing has changed, apart from (insensitivity unavoidable) the fact that a great number if crew have no ST. Just get your Union to accept the proposal and we'll be back to a more formalized square 1 on upgrades.
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Thank you Right Engine.
It may have been a mistaken understanding but we had to go by what our managers were telling us. In light of the latest suspension, allegedly for collecting money for the sacked and suspended's kids for Christmas through Santascrew which I noted was talked about on here ,you can understand why no CSD in their right mind, striker or not was going to go against what our managers were telling us.
I did not intend to air dirty laundry in public as that might be considered bringing the Company into disrepute. Once another forumite brought the topic into the public domain, I felt I needed to defend myself and and it gave me the opportunity to set record straight. Writing vicious posts or getting into power struggles are not in my nature but wars, even cyber ones can cause people to step outside their usual comfort zone.
I would also like to thank pprune for letting me post. Along with many crew I have been dismissive of this forum and after a shaky start, where I was banned for being a troll and stomped back to the BASSA forum to whinge, I appreciate the opportunity to put my side of the story.
It is a story that Cabin Crew have felt unable to tell. We are gagged from talking to the press. Instead we have vented on our forums. Facebook and texting had resulted in suspensions and sackings and even our forums are risky places with writs allegedly being presented for names.
It is a story of spying trolls, I believe deliberately looking for evidence to present as bullying and harasssment. A cyber war out of the public domain where crew laughed, cried and wrote mad things, even addressing threads to the spies to release tension and keep spirits lifted.
I feel the lid is finally lifting on the story and to me pprune have played a part as firstly it has proved to me my posts were spied on.To me it has also legitemized pprunes piece of Real Estate in cyber space by allowing me to present a different view, whether you agree or not I feel listened to.
As for the deal Right Engine. I don't think after the latest suspension any of us would give up any legal rights of redress against the Compnay.
Duncan has presented Willie with a deal, could you persuade him to agree to it?
We can then hold a massive pool party in Waterside with lego bricks either side of the river to build a bridge of unity and get over it.
Perhaps not, socialising and having a bit of banter down route without fear of being suspended for bullying and harrassment would do most of us. This is all getting very sad. We all want our airline back.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions.
It may have been a mistaken understanding but we had to go by what our managers were telling us. In light of the latest suspension, allegedly for collecting money for the sacked and suspended's kids for Christmas through Santascrew which I noted was talked about on here ,you can understand why no CSD in their right mind, striker or not was going to go against what our managers were telling us.
I did not intend to air dirty laundry in public as that might be considered bringing the Company into disrepute. Once another forumite brought the topic into the public domain, I felt I needed to defend myself and and it gave me the opportunity to set record straight. Writing vicious posts or getting into power struggles are not in my nature but wars, even cyber ones can cause people to step outside their usual comfort zone.
I would also like to thank pprune for letting me post. Along with many crew I have been dismissive of this forum and after a shaky start, where I was banned for being a troll and stomped back to the BASSA forum to whinge, I appreciate the opportunity to put my side of the story.
It is a story that Cabin Crew have felt unable to tell. We are gagged from talking to the press. Instead we have vented on our forums. Facebook and texting had resulted in suspensions and sackings and even our forums are risky places with writs allegedly being presented for names.
It is a story of spying trolls, I believe deliberately looking for evidence to present as bullying and harasssment. A cyber war out of the public domain where crew laughed, cried and wrote mad things, even addressing threads to the spies to release tension and keep spirits lifted.
I feel the lid is finally lifting on the story and to me pprune have played a part as firstly it has proved to me my posts were spied on.To me it has also legitemized pprunes piece of Real Estate in cyber space by allowing me to present a different view, whether you agree or not I feel listened to.
As for the deal Right Engine. I don't think after the latest suspension any of us would give up any legal rights of redress against the Compnay.
Duncan has presented Willie with a deal, could you persuade him to agree to it?
We can then hold a massive pool party in Waterside with lego bricks either side of the river to build a bridge of unity and get over it.
Perhaps not, socialising and having a bit of banter down route without fear of being suspended for bullying and harrassment would do most of us. This is all getting very sad. We all want our airline back.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions.
Last edited by Dingbaticus; 23rd Nov 2010 at 20:59. Reason: spelling
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vctenderness, on the subject of the star of David being worn by a sacked crew member I suggest you google'The Jewish Chronicle BA Steward Sacked'
Sorry, I am not a pilot, can't fly planes and I can't do 'clickys' either.
Read the article and understand more about the sacked and suspended.
The Blu Riband is right, I have only lost one thing that was imposed to my T&Cs, no thanks to his efforts. I believe one thing our strike did achieve is ensuring the rest of our T&Cs remain untouched.
It's my personal belief if we had not stood up and backed our right to have collective representation then the rest of our T&Cs would have been drip drip drip, irrigated away until all we had left was our contractual basic pay, Mixed Fleet without even the hat to feel elite!
We do have a Union but I don't wish to rush for another strike. It really is the nuclear option when all else has failed. This could be settled but provocative suspensions and those that I believe troll our forums deliberately looking for things to report as bullying and harrassment have got to stop.
I did write vicious and stupid things - I said I know how to push buttons! I believe they have screen shots of everything I wrote, desperately trying to find a reason to report me to the police or management to identify me and have me sacked.
I believe being vocal makes me a target but I refuse to be bullied into silence, just as I refuse to be bullied from taking part in a legally balloted for strike.
I will not sign any deal that takes away my legal right to fight injustice and I don't believe many of my colleagues would either.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions.
Sorry, I am not a pilot, can't fly planes and I can't do 'clickys' either.
Read the article and understand more about the sacked and suspended.
The Blu Riband is right, I have only lost one thing that was imposed to my T&Cs, no thanks to his efforts. I believe one thing our strike did achieve is ensuring the rest of our T&Cs remain untouched.
It's my personal belief if we had not stood up and backed our right to have collective representation then the rest of our T&Cs would have been drip drip drip, irrigated away until all we had left was our contractual basic pay, Mixed Fleet without even the hat to feel elite!
We do have a Union but I don't wish to rush for another strike. It really is the nuclear option when all else has failed. This could be settled but provocative suspensions and those that I believe troll our forums deliberately looking for things to report as bullying and harrassment have got to stop.
I did write vicious and stupid things - I said I know how to push buttons! I believe they have screen shots of everything I wrote, desperately trying to find a reason to report me to the police or management to identify me and have me sacked.
I believe being vocal makes me a target but I refuse to be bullied into silence, just as I refuse to be bullied from taking part in a legally balloted for strike.
I will not sign any deal that takes away my legal right to fight injustice and I don't believe many of my colleagues would either.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions.
Last edited by Dingbaticus; 24th Nov 2010 at 00:19. Reason: add disclaimer and add a further reply
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Just to put the 'upgrades' confusion to bed, it has always been the case that the Captain can authorise upgrades when the passengers have boarded and the doors are closed.
The ambiguity came when the asset protection clause failed to add that into the wording. The case still remains that no-one can be upgraded without the permission of the Captain (although it is, in my case, rarely refused) what they may not do is enter the bookings system and change seat allocation through the TRM, neither many the TRM upgrade without the permission of a management grade employee.
Hope that clears it up.
This whole sorry episode could have been avoided if BASSA had chosen to negotiate instead of sticking out for demands to reduce the numbers of redundancies way back at the start. BA offered the same starting point to all Unions based upon previous negotiations and the potential cost savings associated with each department. Those that had more 'fat' to trim were required to provide more savings. BASSA, being the victim of its own success, had more, as a Union representing IFcE, to give than many others. Instead of understanding the rationale behind the system they went onto the offensive and merrily overlooked all the good they could have achieved.
The CC are not to blame for this mess, apart from backing a lame duck, they have been badly treated by both their Union and the Management in a war of words and communication. Sadly though I, personally, feel that BASSA, as their representative, has totally lost the plot and Unite has lost control of BASSA. A dangerous place to be as those in the BASSA heirarchy are rapidly getting to the point where they, alone and personally, have very little to lose but the mass of sensible BA CC employee have alot to lose.
The next few months under 'Red Len' could be telling.
Good luck.
The ambiguity came when the asset protection clause failed to add that into the wording. The case still remains that no-one can be upgraded without the permission of the Captain (although it is, in my case, rarely refused) what they may not do is enter the bookings system and change seat allocation through the TRM, neither many the TRM upgrade without the permission of a management grade employee.
Hope that clears it up.
This whole sorry episode could have been avoided if BASSA had chosen to negotiate instead of sticking out for demands to reduce the numbers of redundancies way back at the start. BA offered the same starting point to all Unions based upon previous negotiations and the potential cost savings associated with each department. Those that had more 'fat' to trim were required to provide more savings. BASSA, being the victim of its own success, had more, as a Union representing IFcE, to give than many others. Instead of understanding the rationale behind the system they went onto the offensive and merrily overlooked all the good they could have achieved.
The CC are not to blame for this mess, apart from backing a lame duck, they have been badly treated by both their Union and the Management in a war of words and communication. Sadly though I, personally, feel that BASSA, as their representative, has totally lost the plot and Unite has lost control of BASSA. A dangerous place to be as those in the BASSA heirarchy are rapidly getting to the point where they, alone and personally, have very little to lose but the mass of sensible BA CC employee have alot to lose.
The next few months under 'Red Len' could be telling.
Good luck.