BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

[Alehandra]

''we''...''I''...does it really matter anymore? Fight is over guys. What's done is done. Too late now for any more blaming. Think both party's got blamed enough anyway. Here's to a happy future, however long it may be.

[TorC]

From KW's letter to LM re ST:

In line with the spirit of the agreement, communications issued by Unite’s crew branch must be more accurate and balanced than they have been.

So, alongside the responsibility of voting to accept/reject the settlement, union members also have a vested interest in monitoring and challenging any, indeed ALL, comms issued by bassa/cc89 to make sure they do not put the return of ST at risk.

As BA itself will no doubt also closely look at any comms, I wonder if they will openly challenge any that they feel are at all inappropriate, or simply sit-back and allow the unions to dig a(nother) ditch for themselves and their members?

The stipulation regarding union comms only appears to cover the point upto which ST is potentially returned. But what if the unions then revert to type?

[vctenderness]

Originally Posted by TorC

From KW's letter to LM re ST:



So, alongside the responsibility of voting to accept/reject the settlement, union members also have a vested interest in monitoring and challenging any, indeed ALL, comms issued by bassa/cc89 to make sure they do not put the return of ST at risk.

As BA itself will no doubt also closely look at any comms, I wonder if they will openly challenge any that they feel are at all inappropriate, or simply sit-back and allow the unions to dig a(nother) ditch for themselves and their members?

The stipulation regarding union comms only appears to cover the point upto which ST is potentially returned. But what if the unions then revert to type?

This clause is not by anyway new.

It has been included in many 'settlements' with BASSA including after the 1997 debacle.

The problem is that BASSA (or the parent union) agree to this and then immediately ignore it.

They will never stop their child like, un-proffessional silly behaviour and the communications will revert to hate filled mud slinging and libelous content.

[TorC]

vctenderness

Yes, you are right, it does seem to have formed a part of most past settlements.

The difference this time being that it's directly linked to the achievemnt of a definate goal (for those union members who actually went on strike, at least) and seems to be a smart way of BA encouraging union members to actually (for a change) get involved, monitor and most importantly CHALLENGE the union leadership, should they not be able to bring themselves to alter their style.

So, union members, are you upto the challenge? Or will you continue to idly sit-by and let your "leaders" potentially scupper something that seems to be a major issue for many of you?

[BASSAwitch]

Pilots love checklists!

Seeing as we've been so kindly hosted here on a pilot's forum, here's a checklist for the BASSA faithful to ponder.

Stress of industrial action - CHECK!
Marriages & friendships destroyed - CHECK!
Psychological damage inflicted on crew - CHECK!
22 days of lost pay - CHECK!
Loss of ST - CHECK!
22 crew dismissed - CHECK!
100 crew suspended - CHECK!
Vilification in the national/international press - CHECK!
Derided by Joe Public - CHECK!
Criticised in Parliment - CHECK!
"Unjustified strike" said by Labour PM Gordon Brown- CHECK!
"Unjustified strike" said by Lord Adonis - CHECK!
"Unjustified strike" said by Lord Mandelson - CHECK!
"Unjustified strike" said by Labour party leader Ed Miliband - CHECK!
"Irresponsible action" said by PM David Cameron - CHECK!
"Irresponsible action" said by Chancellor George Osbourne - CHECK!
Vilified by other departments in BA - CHECK!
Strike threat by BASSA neutered forever more - CHECK!
Redeployment agreement protected (for now) - CHECK!

Mixed fleet destroyed - NO!
Firm protection for ALL current earnings - NO!
Firm protection of current & future work - NO!
Sacked reinstated "we won't leave anyone behind"- NO!
Suspended compensated for "hurt & distress" - NO!
High profile court cases in Employment Tribunals/High Court - NO!
BA embarrassed in open court - NO!
Burke Group named & shamed - NO!
ST reinstated without penalty - NO!
PCCC outed and destroyed - NO!
Pilots pay deal matched - NO! (they got 4% this year plus shares and no productivity change)
Disruption agreement protected - NO!
VCC disbanded - NO!
BA grounded/bought to its knees pleading for mercy - NO!
BALPA expelled from TUC - NO!
LGW protected for current crew - NO!
Willie Walsh sacked by board - NO! (promoted)
Board resigned in disgrace - NO!
Consumer confidence destroyed - NO!
Loads deceminated - NO!
Brand destroyed - NO!
Pride intact - NO!
Facilities agreement protected - NO!
BASSA survive to fight another day - NO! (single union in BA)
BASSA accounts verified - NO!
Drinks with crew that never buy a round - NO!*
Dinner with whinging crew who talk mindlessly about X Factor, Britain's Got Talent, Hello! magazine and other rubbish then don't pay their way - NO!*

Was it all worth it?

Let's end on a nice ditty

YouTube - Something Inside So Strong With Lyrics

ps Betty Girl, it may be unhelpful but after any strike you have to take stock of what you set out to achieve and what you have, in reality, achieved. BASSA are now recommending unanimously the worst of all the deals presented to them since June 30 2009.

* in honour of our resident windbag Watersidewonker

[Betty girl]

Unhelpful BASSAwitch.

[Watersidewonker]

Meeting up for Dinner ahhh NO .............Check What What I Say

[Johnconn]

Meeting up for Dinner ahhh NO .............Check What What I Say

you seem to talk as though people want to meet up for dinner with you???
I can guarantee the "minority militants" will be enjoying their room service on there own while everyone else gets on with life. What What indeed

[BASSAwitch]

No more hangers on

Indeed Johnconn. One of the hardest parts of being a CSD is keeping flightdeck and crew gelled together. I must say on balance, pilots are the easier to get along with. Crew bitch and moan, a lot are just thick trailer trash and many have embarrassed me and the good name of the company in public.

I've just enjoyed 18 months of peace and quiet, nice friendly drinks with "like minded" pilots and crew who can see the militants for what they are. Everyone has been bought a drink and (shock, horror) has bought one back. No arguments at the dinner table about only having salad and I haven't seen the old trick of someone not putting in their share when the bill comes round. It's been refreshing without the BASSA vitriol to be honest.

Let's do our own peace deal here and now. We'll invite the mentalists back if they promise to behave, promise to buy a drink for someone now and again and pay their fair share for dinner. In return, we'll promise to stay away from high brow conversation like politics, philosophy, business, the outside world and how it works. We can all hug and just get on with it. Like it was 15 years ago before BASSA corrupted the weak minded with their poisonous world view.

What say you Watersidewonker, you in or out? We get discount on room service matey, so make sure you mention it! There's only so much Pot Noodle one person can eat, what what?

[Betty girl]

These kind of posts are not helpful.

Firstly, you don't have the right to speak for others, just speak for yourselves.

Second, you lower yourself to the level of those that you criticize if you tar all crew that striked with the same brush.

I have flown with many great and dedicated crew that chose the path of striking and it is not right to post in this way BASSAwitch. We are a large and mixed bunch of individuals and to tar any one set like that is very unhelpful.

Please lets stop all this nastiness and try and look to the future and accept that some striked and some did not. Very rarely I fly with someone I am not keen on but I don't try and put this down to their background or political views, I just accept that all the thousands of us, are not always going to gel but we can all get on and make the most of this great job and try our best to get along.

[Ops_Room_Junkie]

Bassaswitch

Anyone that has read my posts will know what side of any fence that I sit on, but I do try and be fair....that why I find the following very offensive:

Crew bitch and moan, a lot are just thick trailer trash

I actually can't believe you posted that?

[Watersidewonker]

Well said Betty Girl and just to let you know i have never ordered room service i would rather go out and have something to eat/drink alone rather than the easy option and its far better food in general. Yes the days are gone of a big happy crew going out together but thats just another negative of this long running dispute. It will be hard to heal the damage done and you don't have to be a militant to understand this concern. Its a shame for the minority of pilots who were understanding of our dispute but as a community you let us down that fact will not be lost be they militant or non militant cabin crew.

[Betty girl]

I have to say that during this whole eighteen months I have still socialised down route with strikers, non strikers and pilots.

Mostly we have not discussed the IA situation but on some trips we have had measured and polite discussions about it in various room parties and restaurants.

I believe it is very easy and possible for all of us to get along but we just need to have a bit of respect for other peoples views. If you talk to people in a reasoned and polite way explaining your views but also understanding theirs, you can have good and productive conversations and quite often, you will find that your views are not even that far apart. It just takes a bit of effort and those of us in the position of SCCM or Captain need to set the example for others to follow. I feel.

[Yellow Pen]

Yes the days are gone of a big happy crew going out together but thats just another negative of this long running dispute. It will be hard to heal the damage done and you don't have to be a militant to understand this concern. Its a shame for the minority of pilots who were understanding of our dispute but as a community you let us down that fact will not be lost be they militant or non militant cabin crew.

Those days were gone looooong before this dispute. What seems to have been misunderstood by WWW and others is that nobody cares about the hard core of nutters anymore, or what they choose to do with themselves downroute. There are very many pleasant strikers I've enjoyed the company of over the last year (including ex-union reps). I'm sure the reasonably minded will all continue in the way they have done. The lost cause as such are the aforementioned hard core. They'll tell you that it's because 'they can't forgive the pilots for what they've done', but the reality is they hated pilots long before the dispute and they'll continue to hate them long after so there really is no point in concerning oneselves with them. The reasons for their hatred are entirely internal, but the VCC program has given them a convenient figleaf to hide their insecurities and prejudices behind. They've convinced themselves the VCC program has legitimised their own personal grievances and now take comfort in spreading the discord which consumes them to a wider audience. In essence, there really is nothing that can be done by us to help this minority as they must help themselves with their own longstanding personal issues. Only then can they reintegrate with the majority of the workforce. Perhaps the first step towards helping themselves is to appreciate that the world doesn't revolve around them and nobody really cares if they choose to exclude themselves. Everybody else will be in the same bars doing the same thing they always did. If an angry individual chooses to exclude themselves then it's really no skin off our collective noses.

[Betty girl]

Unfortunately a CSD or SCCM can have the ability to influence the cabin crew on a trip; peer pressure is a hard thing to overcome for many people in a job that has structures and ranks like ours, but lets all hope that these people are a minority and that the majority of senior cabin crew and Captains encourage unity.

[Dingbaticus]

Yellow Pen in post 4128 you quote me and then go on to identify a named individual in what I find an unacceptable manner on a public forum. This could damage the named individual not only personally but professionally.

At no time have I identified any named individual as ‘management treacle’. Indeed, if you read the settlement document you will note the it is agreed it is the job of the management to manage and the Union to represent the work force.

Keith Williams is our CEO and it his job to identify who may or may not be ‘treacle’, not you or I or even the BASSA forum. Please amend your post and remove the name or perhaps a MOD could.

Whilst any manager worth their salt will expect their name to appear on private employee forums, some may even see it as a measure of their effectiveness, pprune is a public forum and thought should be given to how your post could be read and the impact on the named individual.

As for ‘new behaviours’, this will be required by BOTH sides of the dispute if BASSAWitch’s outburst is any indication. Are you really a CSD?

I suggest a few refresh their memories regarding the social media guidelines and remember you are in a public arena posting on here.

As I said Betty Girl, the hard work starts now. Not all are happy with the deal and it appears some will find it harder to adjust to the more refreshing atmosphere. This dispute has created egos and power bases and not all may be ready to relinquish it.

Personally, I am ready for the new challenge of building our Brand again. How marvellous to harness my drive, determination and passion for the benefit of our Company under our CEO Keith Williams, working together instead of against each other.

Our Union will also retain the BASSA name, as there are other airlines to consider such as the BASSA branch at Thomson Fly. This may not please my 89(Amicus) friends but to achieve settlement, we will ALL have to embrace change.


The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions

[Sonorguy]

Our Union will also retain the BASSA name, as there are other airlines to consider such as the BASSA branch at Thomson Fly. This may not please my 89(Amicus) friends but to achieve settlement, we will ALL have to embrace change.

I'm not convinced about that as the BASSA brand is irredeemably tainted, whether justifiably or not. I think the reality is that this is unlikely to happen and you'll all be known as simply 'Unite'.

[vctenderness]

Our Union will also retain the BASSA name, as there are other airlines to consider such as the BASSA branch at Thomson Fly. This may not please my 89(Amicus) friends but to achieve settlement, we will ALL have to embrace change.

I cant believe yoiu wrote that! CC89 represents over 20 UK airlines including Virgin, BMI, Monarch.

BASSA is known only to Thomson (were CC89 are also recognised) and whatever Britannia call their self these days.

Any airline that gets an approach from BASSA will not recognise them without a major fight.

[TightSlot]

Have I missed something?

Isn't this dispute now over?

Do you still want to argue with each other?

[Neptunus Rex]

'Fraid not, Tight Slot.

It is now more than two decades since the unpleasantness Down Under, yet some people still cannot let it go.

This minor stouch will run and run, like a punter expecting a jackpot from a fruit (poker) machine.