BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Agree with everything Betty Girl posts!
I am also bit confused by Count N postings???!!!!!
I came to work also because I felt for our customers!
And I am also sooooo pleased to hear that MF is getting a little more money!
I am also bit confused by Count N postings???!!!!!
I came to work also because I felt for our customers!
And I am also sooooo pleased to hear that MF is getting a little more money!
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I am just hoping that this pay rise rumour is substantiated. People are now running round believing they are getting a 37% pay increase taking basic for some to the 40K per annum mark.
If someone has copy of the email could they confirm if this is true as this will cause great unrest if the saalries are now indeed to be increased by 37% and made higher than the crews on Worldwide and Eurofleet.
If this is the case then what has the last 2 years been about ?
If someone has copy of the email could they confirm if this is true as this will cause great unrest if the saalries are now indeed to be increased by 37% and made higher than the crews on Worldwide and Eurofleet.
If this is the case then what has the last 2 years been about ?
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Prism,
I don't think the CSMs are going to get a big pay rise and 37% of 25K would not equal 40K anyway! They may just be getting a normal pay rise.
Main crew on M/F may get a small one.
The 37% rate may refer to an uplift to the F/T crew, but 37% of 11K would put these crew on around 15K for doing the job of a purser (whatever it may be called) and that may be where this figure has come from!
I was not given any figures but they are going to get a rise and lets hope for the sakes of all these young aspiring crew that it is a good one, that makes them more happy.
I don't think the CSMs are going to get a big pay rise and 37% of 25K would not equal 40K anyway! They may just be getting a normal pay rise.
Main crew on M/F may get a small one.
The 37% rate may refer to an uplift to the F/T crew, but 37% of 11K would put these crew on around 15K for doing the job of a purser (whatever it may be called) and that may be where this figure has come from!
I was not given any figures but they are going to get a rise and lets hope for the sakes of all these young aspiring crew that it is a good one, that makes them more happy.
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Betty I hope so to. I saw the latest numbers of people who have left MF and it was no way near the numbers some would have us believe. The surprise I had was that it was CSM's going.
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Prism,
I had not heard that, I had heard it was mostly ex-temps and people who lived too far away. Although many more are going to their managers and saying that they will have to leave if things don't improve! So lets hope this is good for them all.
CG,
Hope all is well for you & co.
I had not heard that, I had heard it was mostly ex-temps and people who lived too far away. Although many more are going to their managers and saying that they will have to leave if things don't improve! So lets hope this is good for them all.
CG,
Hope all is well for you & co.
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The surprise I had was that it was CSM's going
Speaking to a friend who is Flight Crew with Thomson, he was telling me that a number of their seniors had been offered CSM but were reconsidering as they saw the role and responsibilities too daunting to be able to confidently undertake.
Even after working for BA for years, I still find the role of CSD challenging at times. Different customer profiles, route specific routines and customs, premium cabin service style and standards, crew performance management, flight crew relations, working with service partners, how to fix an inop seat!!!!, wrestle your way through AVOD.....all these to name a few isn't something you just learn in a 6 week training course. For external SCCMs it must be a hugely daunting prospect of taking out a wide-bodied a/c, in charge.
There has to be alot said for gaining years of experience in a large company with a world-renowned brand. And our customers expect this, especially when things go wrong!!
Lets hope that the whole MF package is made more attractive for everyone. That way our customers will recieve the standard of service they expect from BA.
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Hula. CSD's do all the things you say,plus now they have their time monopolised being a Club Purser as well. I fail to see how they are expected to write reports on Pursers, if they are unable to observe them working?
I do feel a little sorry for the WW CSD's whose role has probabaly become the worst job on the aircraft. Also in my opinion, BA have unnecessarily loaded up CSD's by making them responsible for a door at 1L, when the crew member they sit oppposite or beside has nothing like the responsibilites of a CSD getting a flight away, and being ready at the door with paperwork when the aircraft arrives.
I asked at SEP a couple of weeks ago why CSD's had been given a door responsibility. No one could give a logical answer. Obviously on the 767 there is no option, but making a CSD rush from the office on a 747 to put his door in manula, and then rushing back to start the safety demo seems to habe been a daft decision by some faceless wonder.
So I am not surprised that CSM's are leaving MF or going back to their old jobs. For the money, BA wants blood out of a stone.
I do feel a little sorry for the WW CSD's whose role has probabaly become the worst job on the aircraft. Also in my opinion, BA have unnecessarily loaded up CSD's by making them responsible for a door at 1L, when the crew member they sit oppposite or beside has nothing like the responsibilites of a CSD getting a flight away, and being ready at the door with paperwork when the aircraft arrives.
I asked at SEP a couple of weeks ago why CSD's had been given a door responsibility. No one could give a logical answer. Obviously on the 767 there is no option, but making a CSD rush from the office on a 747 to put his door in manula, and then rushing back to start the safety demo seems to habe been a daft decision by some faceless wonder.
So I am not surprised that CSM's are leaving MF or going back to their old jobs. For the money, BA wants blood out of a stone.
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Hula. CSD's do all the things you say,plus now they have their time monopolised being a Club Purser as well. I fail to see how they are expected to write reports on Pursers, if they are unable to observe them working
I am also not alone in thinking that CSDs are now less respected by the crew than they used to be. We are now seen as just one of the team and very few actually appreciate that we got the worst end of the deal when the crew member was removed. Don't get me wrong, I work extremely hard onboard, for my customers and my crew but sometimes somethings gotta give! ( and its usually GPMs!! ) You are right about being unable to objectively write reports on Pursers we cannot observe....unfortunately I don't have xray vision!
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Count N,
Are you a VCC or a crew member, as in one of your posts you say that you are a VCC?
Hula,
I am sure that you now work very hard but you do get paid a good salary and prior to these changes some CSDs on WW did not contribute enough; I'm sure not you though!
I think that the passengers appreciate seeing the senior crew member out in the cabin and I have heard that the standard of service in club has improved as the CSD can now oversee that it is being done the right way!
Although you are not able to observe your Pursers (although, I have to say, that I have never seen a CSD do this in all my years) you can get a very good impression of all the main crew in Club cabin for their IFAs, as you are working really closely with them now. So that must be good, surely!
Are you a VCC or a crew member, as in one of your posts you say that you are a VCC?
Hula,
I am sure that you now work very hard but you do get paid a good salary and prior to these changes some CSDs on WW did not contribute enough; I'm sure not you though!
I think that the passengers appreciate seeing the senior crew member out in the cabin and I have heard that the standard of service in club has improved as the CSD can now oversee that it is being done the right way!
Although you are not able to observe your Pursers (although, I have to say, that I have never seen a CSD do this in all my years) you can get a very good impression of all the main crew in Club cabin for their IFAs, as you are working really closely with them now. So that must be good, surely!
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I think you will find the CSD coming more out of the Club World service routine more and more now. Please check your new service routine guide. CSDs are not expected to complete IFAs on main crew. It has been made clear we should be assessing the pursers who have hit the trigger which will mean overseeing them where possible. CSDs at their annual review now are handed a report on how many PSRS they have flown with who they have failed to make an IFA on.
You are correct results show that service standards are now at their highest in 10 years. 92% is the figure.
The new IFA forms will be rolled out very shortly and crew will need to find PSRs to complete their IFA's as CSDs will be assessing PSRS.
Betty it is a review that is under way and there is no guarantee of a pay increase. Our Reward and Recognition Dept are going to compare the average salaey of all UK airlines and ensure the rate is actually the average plus 10%. This all went out in an ess. It is a review only and if it is found that they made a mistake last year then it will be rectified and back dated to April 2011. It is a review.
You are correct results show that service standards are now at their highest in 10 years. 92% is the figure.
The new IFA forms will be rolled out very shortly and crew will need to find PSRs to complete their IFA's as CSDs will be assessing PSRS.
Betty it is a review that is under way and there is no guarantee of a pay increase. Our Reward and Recognition Dept are going to compare the average salaey of all UK airlines and ensure the rate is actually the average plus 10%. This all went out in an ess. It is a review only and if it is found that they made a mistake last year then it will be rectified and back dated to April 2011. It is a review.
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I think you will find the CSD coming more out of the Club World service routine more and more now
CSDs are not expected to complete IFAs on main crew
crew will need to find PSRs to complete their IFA's
I think that the passengers appreciate seeing the senior crew member out in the cabin
I do agree that the standard of the Club service has improved....what does that tell you?!!
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I do agree that the standard of the Club service has improved....what does that tell you?!!
Do you think it would be a good idea for the CSD position to rotate between the cabins, so that all crew had the "opportunity" to be "helped"?
The Club/First purser could then run IFE and cabin checks, so no different really from when the CSD is on break. It would also be good for their career development and experience for when they have to work up.
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malcomf We no longer have a CLUB PSR at BA. That position being removed was what caused the initial IA. Because of certain checks covered by the CSD the Captain also needs to know where he/she can find the CSD. I agree with you that PSRS should be able to work up without question and as we have had no PSR promotion on WW for over 10 years there should be no excuse for not being able to work up.
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Well all, as a CSD you can do IFAs on any crew member and should do an IFA on a main crew member if you are working with them. You may be only held accountable for your Purser IFA score but you are still responsible for all the IFAs on your flights.
Some of you may be in for a big shock soon as BA, I know for sure on E/F, are talking about increasing the frequency of IFAs from 90 to 30 days. I personally think that would be ridiculous unless the assessment was more of a tick box form but on E/F that is one of our new Head of Department's ( S.M.) latest ideas as she has already done it in M/F.
Prism.
I have not been listening to galley gossip and have my information direct from someone very close to M/F. ( I cannot say more otherwise I may inadvertently identify my source). She has said that there will definitely be a pay rise for main crew and a bigger one for F/T crew and that the F/T role is going to become a stand alone rank similar to Purser as they are doing a lot of work similar to the Purser on WW and this will also give the other cabins more direction.
I don't know what the amount is but they have already established that these crew are earning less than market rate + 10% and I really think that is pretty obvious. So YES they will definitely be getting an uplift on their sallary. Don't forget that in charter airlines crew can earn £300 a month in commision and many have a more generous hourly rate. So I think it is you that is wrong, not me.
Some of you may be in for a big shock soon as BA, I know for sure on E/F, are talking about increasing the frequency of IFAs from 90 to 30 days. I personally think that would be ridiculous unless the assessment was more of a tick box form but on E/F that is one of our new Head of Department's ( S.M.) latest ideas as she has already done it in M/F.
Prism.
I have not been listening to galley gossip and have my information direct from someone very close to M/F. ( I cannot say more otherwise I may inadvertently identify my source). She has said that there will definitely be a pay rise for main crew and a bigger one for F/T crew and that the F/T role is going to become a stand alone rank similar to Purser as they are doing a lot of work similar to the Purser on WW and this will also give the other cabins more direction.
I don't know what the amount is but they have already established that these crew are earning less than market rate + 10% and I really think that is pretty obvious. So YES they will definitely be getting an uplift on their sallary. Don't forget that in charter airlines crew can earn £300 a month in commision and many have a more generous hourly rate. So I think it is you that is wrong, not me.
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It is a review Betty. SMS has sent out an ESS letter to say it is a review and if the Dept responsible for rewards finds they made an error last year then they will put it right and back date it to 1st April 2011. The letter is posted in its entirity on other forums. I am ABSOLUTLY not wrong. It is a review. The union is also asking for M/F to be paid better. Those of us on existing fleets will have had a pay rise from Feb 2011 if we signed upto the individual offer; so it is only fair that M/F gets one too. Who knows there may also be a pay rise announced in the next deal put across ? On that we will have to wait. If existing fleets have or about to have a pay increase then it is only fair that M/F gets one too. Betty you are telling crew in your post that they are as you put it DEFINITLY getting a pay uplift. What happens if they dont; you will have been responsible for creating an expectation. Why not let SMS and the Reward Dept do their studies and report back and that way nobody gets false hopes or expectations ?
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Prism,
Of course it is a review but the results of this review WILL result in a pay rise. I have seen it printed on another site and I think I recognise your posting style from over there.!I don't post over there myself as I find it a very nasty site in general and feel very sorry for the new entrants posting there!!
Hula.
''I do agree that the standard of the Club service has improved....what does that tell you?!!''
What do you think it shows? I think it shows that the CSD managing from his office was in-affective and him/her being in the cabin seems to be better!! Obviously it is a lot harder for you all and I do realise that but some have spent many years being very in-affective and as I said , I'm sure not you. Some still probably are still in-affective but some are loving being back with the customers and more hands on even though I can see it must be hard work but you do get paid a lovely sallary! Which I hope makes up for it. On E/F the CSD is still respected and they have been working in the cabin for years and years!
Of course it is a review but the results of this review WILL result in a pay rise. I have seen it printed on another site and I think I recognise your posting style from over there.!I don't post over there myself as I find it a very nasty site in general and feel very sorry for the new entrants posting there!!
Hula.
''I do agree that the standard of the Club service has improved....what does that tell you?!!''
What do you think it shows? I think it shows that the CSD managing from his office was in-affective and him/her being in the cabin seems to be better!! Obviously it is a lot harder for you all and I do realise that but some have spent many years being very in-affective and as I said , I'm sure not you. Some still probably are still in-affective but some are loving being back with the customers and more hands on even though I can see it must be hard work but you do get paid a lovely sallary! Which I hope makes up for it. On E/F the CSD is still respected and they have been working in the cabin for years and years!
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As do you Betty.
Betty you also arent aware that the CSD is no longer on the trolly. They are now in the Galley and released back to talking to the Prems / Gold cards etc. This move was made about 4 months ago. We try and take the meal order, assist with the first trolley and then move to the galley so we can trouble shoot, the captain knows where we are and can disengage where necessary to talk to our premium customers be they in First, U/Deck , Club or traveller. This was in reaction to premium customer feed back. It has changed again.
Betty you also arent aware that the CSD is no longer on the trolly. They are now in the Galley and released back to talking to the Prems / Gold cards etc. This move was made about 4 months ago. We try and take the meal order, assist with the first trolley and then move to the galley so we can trouble shoot, the captain knows where we are and can disengage where necessary to talk to our premium customers be they in First, U/Deck , Club or traveller. This was in reaction to premium customer feed back. It has changed again.
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Do you think it would be a good idea for the CSD position to rotate between the cabins
Our premium customers also enjoy the recognition of being approached and individually spoken to by the CSD. This can take some time and usually happens post take-off when the service isn't quite in full swing (and the customers haven't fallen asleep or got stuck into a movie!). If the CSD was working in the WT cabin, this important element of our role would be compromised and thats not fair on the customers. Working in Club gives the CSD the advantage of being well positioned on the aircraft....easily accessible to First, Club, WT customers and also the Flight and Cabin crew.
so that all crew had the "opportunity" to be "helped"?
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Hula
I'm sure it's just the way you wrote it, but the Senior Manager on board any BA aircraft is the Captain. He is ultimately responsible for everything on the aircraft including the cabin service. He delegates that responsibilty to the CSD on the day.
I'm sure it's just the way you wrote it, but the Senior Manager on board any BA aircraft is the Captain. He is ultimately responsible for everything on the aircraft including the cabin service. He delegates that responsibilty to the CSD on the day.