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BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

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BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

Old 5th Oct 2010, 20:51
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: on boeings finest
Posts: 184
Italian desert/cake lady My only information is for WW beyond that I know very little

MissM for the first time I agree with you, but BASSA members and by default non BASSA members are where they are because of a complete and utter failure of BASSA to negotiate sensibly
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 20:51
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Surrey
Posts: 471
Miss M,
How are you?
The ones who need to wake up is those who thought BASSA would get them Staff Travel in five minutes and those who didn't believe Willie Walsh who said that you would lose Staff Travel if you strike.
Having said that I am genuinely sorry for you having lost your staff travel and for being so naive and gullible.
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 21:29
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: england
Posts: 144
Whilst some crew were naively worrying about working one down,others were waking up and smellling the coffee.

They were aware of the real issues at stake.New fleet.

Some crew chose to strike over the crewing levels.
Others chose a different battle and attempted to secure as good a deal as they could to protect their pay.

It seems both sides have achieved their aim.
Non unionised crew have payment protection and the union have succeeded in getting extra crew on board. VCC. But at what cost?
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 21:29
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 859
I think HND and EZE are red herrings in this as any guarantees are only about route transfers not about new routes. The single NRT being changed to the 777 and NF would be a sensible commercial decision allowing crewing flexibility between the 2 Tokyo destinations.

A single route going over to MF is hardly indicative of a policy to strip lucrative destinations from CTC. MF will have to be employed somewhere and they will be used where it makes commercial sense.

If BASSA had allowed CTC crew to look at hourly pay a few years ago then no routes would be "premium" routes, they would just be routes.
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 21:55
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: LHR
Posts: 47
Tiramisu

It is a contract we have with BA and it makes no sense whatsoever to have us sitting at home on full pay while Mixed Fleet do these routes.
And here lies your first mistake - it is NOT a contract. It is an AGREEMENT - just as we all work(ed) to AGREEMENTS until BA decided to change them. You and your colleagues have been used - No current BA crew will be 'safe' from whatever BA want to do.

For those of you who 'Backed BA' - you will not be 'protected' neither will 'legacy' (I love the way you Pilots are using that word) crew.

For Tiramisu, HiFlyer14, Eddy et al - you need to understand that BA is a business, a corporate machine, a money making entity for it's shareholders, simples

BA is not here to 'protect' nor 'look after' anyone - it is here to make money.

Take whatever Bill Francis offered you with a pinch of salt - they will change whatever they want to change and do whatever they want to do. The only thing that could possibly stop them doing that would be a strong Trades Union and thats almost a thing of the past.

Remember those movies that the baddies used to get the guy to dig their own grave before they shot them - welcome to the real world guys, you just helped dig your own grave. (By the way I recommend Spear & Jackson as a fine manufacturer of garden implements)
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 22:22
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: lincoln
Posts: 4
Love the numberfifteen

No15 You are spot on - have(had) been following your threads. Ab fab.
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 22:32
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942
Angel

No15,
It is Bassa that have let you and the rest of us down by striking instead of talking.
All the union ever get us, are agreements also, so whats the difference. My agreement is as binding as any Bassa have got and BA has upheld all the agreements to date. Crewing levels were never part of any agreement.

Shame Bassa did not make an agreement over the new crewing levels, that none of us are upset about, instead of taking you all out on strike, maybe then we would all have an AGREEMENT and you might have your staff travel also.

We all have a choice believe Bill or Bassa and I have found Bill to be the most honest so far.
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 22:40
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England
Posts: 730
BA is not here to 'protect' nor 'look after' anyone - it is here to make money.

Take whatever Bill Francis offered you with a pinch of salt - they will change whatever they want to change and do whatever they want to do. The only thing that could possibly stop them doing that would be a strong Trades Union and thats almost a thing of the past.
Absolutely spot on.
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Old 6th Oct 2010, 04:10
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 455
Take whatever Bill Francis offered you with a pinch of salt - they will change whatever they want to change and do whatever they want to do. The only thing that could possibly stop them doing that would be a strong Trades Union and thats almost a thing of the past.
Correction: The *other* thing that *would* have stopped them would have been being in such a dire financial state that the only option would have been a fire sale to one of the Middle East carriers, and then you'd *really* know the meaning of management that do what they want.
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Old 6th Oct 2010, 04:31
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 420
Tiramisu

Personally I couldn't be less bothered with ST as I almost never use it and should I ever travel in the future I will take my business elsewhere.

And I am genuinely sorry for those of you who thought you were backing BA when crossing the picket line. Some of you might have signed a three year deal with the company which protects you for the time being but in my opinion you have really sold yourselves down the river. What happens later?

It's not too late for you, or anyone else, to change your mind. The majority of us made the right decision earlier this year and won't doubt to make that decision again. Personally I will strike go on strike for as long as it takes as some of us care about out future and will not accept this behaviour from our excuse to an LT.
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Old 6th Oct 2010, 04:59
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: N5120. W00035
Posts: 51
MissM

Tiramisu

Personally I couldn't be less bothered with ST as I almost never use it and should I ever travel in the future I will take my business elsewhere.

And I am genuinely sorry for those of you who thought you were backing BA when crossing the picket line. Some of you might have signed a three year deal with the company which protects you for the time being but in my opinion you have really sold yourselves down the river. What happens later?

It's not too late for you, or anyone else, to change your mind. The majority of us made the right decision earlier this year and won't doubt to make that decision again. Personally I will strike go on strike for as long as it takes as some of us care about out future and will not accept this behaviour from our excuse to an LT.
You say you could'nt be bothered with ST, but are prepared to strike for it?
Are you prepared to give anything to this company MissM (other than strike threats), or is that for the rest of the staff to be burdened with?
And you wonder why there are so many VCC's willing and able!
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Old 6th Oct 2010, 05:31
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: LHR
Posts: 47
Betty Girl

My agreement is as binding as any Bassa have got and BA has upheld all the agreements to date. Crewing levels were never part of any agreement.
I am absolutely staggered that you say the above and genuinely believe that it is true - it shows a complete lack of knowledge of your working 'Agreements'.

You will find that crewing levels are most certainly part of the 'Agreement' that BA and BASSA used to adhere too - in the WW Sceduling Agreement it is section 7 page 29.

7. CREW COMPLEMENTS
MINIMUM PLANNED CREW COMPLEMENTS
ADDITIONAL CREW MEMBER ROUTES
ICC COMPLEMENTS
WORKING POSITIONS DOWNROUTE SHORTAGE
On EF it's Section 21, page 30.

We had an 'Agreement' and BA changed it - just as they will now change anything they want too in the future - can't you see that?
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Old 6th Oct 2010, 05:45
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 217
Originally Posted by MissM
The majority of us made the right decision earlier this year
Indeed. The majority went to work, and about 4900 of 13000 crew made the wrong decision and went on strike.
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Old 6th Oct 2010, 06:52
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942
Angel

No 15,
It is not a three year agreement. The pay part is three years. Did you actually read it!!!
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Old 6th Oct 2010, 06:58
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: LHR
Posts: 47
Betty Girl

No 15,
It is not a three year agreement. The pay part is three years. Did you actually read it!!!
You have me confused now - who has mentioned three year agreements?
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Old 6th Oct 2010, 07:17
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942
Angel

Sorry No15 it was Miss M in post 30 that mentioned three years.
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Old 6th Oct 2010, 07:21
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942
Angel

MissM,
I don't think your union will strike now. I think they will find some way to save face and sign you up to the agreement. Shame they let go of a better one and lost you your staff travel for you.!!!
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Old 6th Oct 2010, 07:29
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Belgium
Age: 58
Posts: 5
No.15 you see things so clearly, yes it is all about running a busiiness and making money. Each one of us is just a name and staff number, once you actually start believing that the company care about your rights/contract etc you have lost the plot. Welcome to the world of corporate business it is very ruthless. It is a sad fact that loyalty and even going to work during the strike and backing BA will not help you in the long run. I have been very proud to work for BA but I am no fool we are tiny cogs in a very large wheel and can and will be replaced to save money. Our board can afford the top lawyers, stragists, economists they can run circles around us at the same time putting such a spin on it making it all very believable for the guillible.
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Old 6th Oct 2010, 07:34
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: LHR
Posts: 47
Betty Girl

Sorry No15 it was Miss M in post 30 that mentioned three years.
I thought I was going nuts then xx
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Old 6th Oct 2010, 07:42
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942
Angel

Look BA can not get rid of people just because they are on an old contract. They will not be paying for us to sit at home and do no work either. Qantas have done exactly the same thing and have crew on different contracts and the old contracts are still there.

You are all being frightened by a union that has got out of control. Yes of course BA would rather have people on cheaper contracts and as we leave that is what will happen. They are making huge savings from the new crew compliments and even bigger savings from Mixed fleet (and the union has helped make these bigger than ever)

What we should all do is get on with doing our job and show BA that E/F and WW can be better than Mixed Fleet with all our experienced crew.
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