BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

[Litebulbs]

HM

Well the balance of probabilities will point in one direction, as long as all other defects remained at normal levels.

[Betty girl]

Trouble with forums like this, people can say anything and nobody is able to verify what they say is true or just made up!

Stories and facts get exaggerated within days.

For example you should hear all the stories going around about the man that smashed his car into the crew car park gate!!
Every person I speak to has a different version of the story and they are getting wilder and wilder every day!!

P.S. If anyone knows the real version of what happened in the car park please pm me because I love a bit of gossip!!

[Snas]

gr8tballsoffire

She has a history of bias towards BASSA and I have now made a complaint about her performance to the BBC.

You wont like this then old bean, sorry....

BBC News - Victoria Derbyshire up for three Sony Radio Awards

The comment you refer to was a new low on the part of the caller I have to agree. I sat with my jaw on the floor when I heard it.

However and moving on.. No strike dates and I imagine a very low probability of any being forthcoming. I really do think this is it for the dispute, BASSA lost, BA won. I really cant see another ballot being held, I mean on what for goodness sake.

Were the union to call a strike it's support and effect is most likley going to be low and will be seen to be low.

If they dont and call another ballot it's like two wierd brothers that havent spoken for 40 years but cant remember what the original argument was about, whilst the rest of the family carry on with their lives around them.

Now BASSA has got itself into this crippled and useless state lets be thankful that BA doesnt have a different kind of CEO that really did want to take advantage of the situation in a way that is so often claimed he will...in the future!

[spin_doctor]

Following a recent chat with one of our managers it would seem that BA are still very unlikely to go down the 'mass dismissal/SOSR' route. This chap seemed to suggest BA are very wary about the possible financial and PR implications of getting it wrong.

Not sure how close he is to the real decision makers but interesting to hear this view from BA management.

[ottergirl]

Abbey Road

Can't find that thread - has it been removed, perhaps?

Yes it has as it was very controversial; ironically the only way to read it now is through the SLF section of this forum!

[vctenderness]

Kristal Nacht comment

The Jewish Chronicle has picked up on the Kristal Nacht comment on VD show Radio 5 Live as follows:

Airline strike 'like Kristallnacht' claim

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By Robyn Rosen, March 31, 2011
A British Airways steward has compared a dispute with the airline with Kristallnacht.
The comments were made on Victoria Derbyshire's programme on BBC Radio 5 Live on Tuesday when guests discussed new strike action by British Airways staff.
One BA staffer, identifying himself only as Ian from Cheshire, phoned in in support of strike action, and said: "It's like Kristallnacht at the moment at BA. Everyone fears for their jobs. If you give someone a look, you don't know what's going to happen. You'll have your collar felt."
Ms Derbyshire responded: "That's an incredibly strong analogy you just made."
Ian replied: "Well, that's how it feels. There are just dreadful, dreadful things happening at work. There are people doing all sorts of awful things. It's just heartbreaking."
Kristallnacht, the night of broken glass, took place between November 9 and 10 1938, when 30,000 German Jews were sent to concentration camps after hundreds of synagogues were burned down and Jewish shops attacked.
Karen Pollock, chief executive of the Holocaust Educational Trust, said: "Whatever the issues with this particular dispute, an attempt to draw a parallel with Kristallnacht shows a worrying lack of understanding about this iconic night of violence, which was a watershed moment in the murder of millions of European Jews."
Jon Benjamin, chief executive of the Board of Deputies, said: "This was a crass and insensitive comment, however innocently made. As others have said, 'if everything is like the Holocaust, the Holocaust becomes like everything else'."
A BBC spokesman said: "The comparison was made in a live and heated debate. Victoria Derbyshire did challenge it by intervening".

[MrBernoulli]

Victoria Derbyshire is a less than inspiring interviewer. Fancies herself as in the league of John Humphrys or Jeremy Paxman (neither of whose style I enjoy), but hasn't been able to get even close in terms of getting to the point and core of a subject. She's a waffler.

[fruitbat]

Ryanair Thanks Unite For Yet More BA Flight Disruptions
Source: Ryanair
29/03/2011
Ryanair today (29th Mar) delivered 18 red roses to UNITE bosses, to mark 18 months of British Airways strikes which have caused repeated disruption to BA’s passengers, who are now suffering more uncertainty after UNITE confirmed that more strikes are imminent, but refused to reveal which dates it will again plunge BA passengers into misery and chaos.

Ryanair called on British holidaymakers to protect their precious Easter and summer breaks by snapping up one of Ryanair’s £8 fares and avoid the latest UNITE BA strikes, which could begin as early as next week. Clearly UNITE don’t care about passengers or their families.

Ryanair’s Stephen McNamara said,

“Ryanair is starting to really warm to the UNITE union, who continue to cause uncertainty for BA holidaymakers at peak times of the year and now, with their fourth set of strikes in less than 18 months, they will encourage even more BA passengers to switch to Ryanair’s low fare strike free flights this Easter and summer.

We have sent UNITE 18 red roses to mark the 18 months of holiday misery and uncertainty they have inflicted on BA passengers and their families and we have placed these dinosaurs at the very top of our Christmas card list as we welcome their efforts to encourage BA passengers to switch to Ryanair’s strike free low fares services. We think UNITE is a wonderful, if sadly misguided and deluded, union.”


RYANAIR’S STEPHEN MCNAMARA AND CABIN SUPERVISOR DARIA, SEND ‘WE LOVE UNITE’ ROSES TO UNION BOSSES TO THANK THEM FOR YET MORE BA STRIKES

[Lib Dem]

I'm a gentile but will light a candle and say a prayer before I pop into bed, whenever this Back2Back trip ends.

One thing that Mr DH and his friends on Radio 5's phone ins have done, allbeit by default, is remind us of the Holocaust and then see that his personal agenda simply swims about in a sea of mediocrity.

If the man had brains he could be dangerous. . . . . . . . . .

[MissM]

Whether next strike will be legal or not doesn't matter. I will personally go on strike should a strike be called. Let them sack us.

BA management are not treating us with respect.

Let the rest of the strike breaking crew and VCC work. There are thousands of us who are not happy with what BA are doing to us. It's a shame that the strike breaking crew are not seeing that BA are wanting to get rid of us.

[Smell the Coffee]

Whether next strike will be legal or not doesn't matter. I will personally go on strike should a strike be called. Let them sack us.

BA management are not treating us with respect.

Let the rest of the strike breaking crew and VCC work. There are thousands of us who are not happy with what BA are doing to us. It's a shame that the strike breaking crew are not seeing that BA are wanting to get rid of us.

I'm not taking sides here but I don't think BA would sack you; it would open a can of worms.

Their strategy is to continue growing Mixed Fleet and the number of VCCs so that they get to a point where all flights are covered.

You could then call and walk out on strike as many times as you wanted - and it wouldn't make any difference at all.

You need to understand this is a likely strategy going forward.

If I was a union member I would probably think of a different way of resolving my concerns, as it would be obvious to me that strikes not supported by a majority of crew just would not work.

[essessdeedee]

All the Volunteer Cabin Crew see, are a minority of crew that will not (refuse to) see, the need to change to allow BA to become competitive again. Every other work group in the company has, without demanding 'no change and a guaranteed future earnings' ad infinitum.

It looks like BA failed to meet that last demand by imposing a bonus.

I wonder how many millions BA would save by guaranteeing current rates of pay? i.e. no more bonuses or pay rises.

[Juan Tugoh]

Miss M

I admire your tenacity. It is hard to stick to one's principles of supporting the democratic will of the union when it is obvious that the union leadership cannot deliver anything by striking. To know that and to continue with "my union right or wrong" takes real courage.

There is no doubt that the strike would be legal - unless BASSA and UNITE have once again screwed up the ballot, which I very much doubt they have done. The strike may well be unprotected, and that opens up the union to damages, there is some debate as to whether these are limited to £250,000 or not. I suspect that BA will go after UNITE for costs and not sack strikers, apart from anything else it will open a can of worms. At the moment BA seem to have been successful at retaining public sympathy, BASSA has failed in this - comments about Kristalnacht being a prime example of how to lose sympathy - sacking people for striking would be likely to change this positive PR overnight. Going after union funds would seem much more productive, would keep public sympathy and recoup some of the losses incurred.

I do have a genuine question. My views on this are probably completely contrary to your own views, but could you explain to me what outcome from striking you expect and why the outcome would be different from last summer's strikes. I have an honest interest here and wish to try to understand why you think striking will achieve anything this time around.

Thanks

JT

[Wirbelsturm]

BA management are not treating us with respect.

And Bassa have been the epitomy of respect when dealing with the company and anyone who holds a differing viewpoint to Duncan haven't they.

[Abbey Road]

Whether next strike will be legal or not doesn't matter. I will personally go on strike should a strike be called. Let them sack us.

BA management are not treating us with respect.

Which begs the question, MissM, if you're content to be sacked, and you don't feel you're respected in BA, why haven't you left the company voluntarily? Surely that would be better for both you and BA?

Or is "Let them sack us" merely a bit of thin bravado?

[hula]

Miss M

BA management are not treating us with respect.

Sorry Miss M but you have to earn respect and respect earns respect.

Deflamatory remarks and pictures about WW, shouting abuse at VCC, crew who wished to work and temps and ex-communicating them onboard, references to BA management being like the Nazis etc etc to name a few. These are all totally disrespectful, yet continue to happen. How are BA disrespecting you.......?

Let the rest of the strike breaking crew and VCC work. There are thousands of us who are not happy with what BA are doing to us. It's a shame that the strike breaking crew are not seeing that BA are wanting to get rid of us.

What are BA doing to you that makes you unhappy?

Is it because they have finally won back their right to manage? Is it because they are focusing on turning the airline into a strong competitor who can deliver to investors and share holders? ( Have you seen what the competition are doing?)
I really don't understand what your fight is and I don't think alot of crew know themselves anymore. Speaking to my friends who went on strike they now feel they just have to do it as they have nothing to loose.

BA are not perfect and I don't agree on some of the things they have done and the way they have done it...what I do believe is that BA are a good employer compared to many. My renumeration is good, I have a good work/life balance, I am put in good hotels when overseas, away from airports and close to shops, restaurants etc.

Do BA want to get rid of us? Eventually, yes. They have Mixed Fleet now, already saving them money. It will take a considerable amount of time to replace us. And by then Mixed Fleet might look completely different to the model it is now. It might even be attractive Miss M The fact is none of us know what the future holds. None of us have a crystal ball and the airline will look very different in the future. As has been said before none of us can live our lives on 'what ifs'? Why worry about things that haven't and might not happen? Deal with issues when they happen by negotiating responsibly and professionally. Thats the only way forward now as BASSA have blown the Unions strongest weapon, for good!

BA now have and will always have an army of VCC, so future strikes will now be fruitless.

Miss M you sound incredibly unhappy. Is this how you want to carry on in your career at BA? The only people I see unhappy now at work are people who went on strike. Everyone else is moving on.

If you believe there is no future in BA why are you still here?

[MissM]

If BA were serious about sacking us they would have done it a long time ago. We already heard rumours in March last year that we were going to be given our P45.

Unhappy I, and other strikers, may be but surely that is an indication that there's something wrong at work and that we are not pleased with what's happening. The company won't be able to move forward fully until they have solved the dispute with us. BA are saying that they are willing to talk at any time. Unite is saying the same yet nothing is progressing. We want a fair deal and protection against Mixed Fleet. Why is that difficult to understand?

BA have trained thousands of VCC's and their only purpose is to destroy our strike. Is that to show respect toward a loyal workforce? Another example is BA have also completely ignored a long-standing agreement with regards to part-time contract. Crew have been offered part-time over others who are on the part-time list. Many have been waiting years and are stll waiting. Is that respectful?

Do I agree with the comparison between BA Management and Kristallnacht? No, not at all. It was an extremely rude, disrespectful and arrogant comparison which never should have been made in the first place.

[Runway vacated]

Is that to show respect toward a loyal workforce?

And just how has that "loyalty" manifested itself?

The fact that (most) of you turn up to work when rostered?

The fact that you have the worst sickness record of any group in the airline?

The fact that many or indeed most of your members would rather stick rigidly to agreements than serve the interests of their customers?

Or the fact that, as a group within BA you have threatened strike action 4 times in the last 14 years?

Loyalty? To yourselves possibly, but not to your employer.

[Yellow Pen]

Originally Posted by MissM

I
Unhappy I, and other strikers, may be but surely that is an indication that there's something wrong at work and that we are not pleased with what's happening.

Yes. What is 'wrong' is that you are being managed, by BA, and the union are not being allowed to dictate the running of the operation. I'm not surprised you are not pleased with it but that is the reality of the future.

The company won't be able to move forward fully until they have solved the dispute with us.

I recall Mr Walsh saying that if it comes to a war of attrition, BA will win. They are winning.

BA are saying that they are willing to talk at any time. Unite is saying the same yet nothing is progressing.

There has been progress. A deal was made by Unite. It was rejected by the branches. The branches, and their unrealistic demands and inter-branch squabble, are the barrier to progress.

We want a fair deal and protection against Mixed Fleet. Why is that difficult to understand?

You've been offered protection against Mixed Fleet in several forms. What you will not, and will never get, is a veto over the deployment of Mixed Fleet. Your deals have been more than fair and protected your income.

BA have trained thousands of VCC's and their only purpose is to destroy our strike.

You have threatened to destroy BA. It's a justified response.

Another example is BA have also completely ignored a long-standing agreement with regards to part-time contract. Crew have been offered part-time over others who are on the part-time list. Many have been waiting years and are stll waiting. Is that respectful?

Why shouldn't BA reward those who wrok with the company rather than against it? You want to have your cake and eat it: industrial action with no negative consequences. It doesn't work like that.

[MissM]

Runway vacated

The fact that (most) of you turn up to work when rostered?

I thought the point was to turn up at work whenever rostered? Except when a lawful industrial action has been called.

The fact that you have the worst sickness record of any group in the airline?

Perhaps that's because we have a strict guideline as to when we can and can't work? It's not very clever to fly when your sinuses are blocked or go to work when suffering from gastroenteritis as you are dealing with food.

It's a bit different when working on the ground. No problem whatsoever to sit at your desk in Waterside with a running noise.

The fact that many or indeed most of your members would rather stick rigidly to agreements than serve the interests of their customers?

Agreements which have been agreed to by negotiations. They can be changed.

Or the fact that, as a group within BA you have threatened strike action 4 times in the last 14 years?

Maybe that's a sign that things aren't really that great?