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BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

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BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

Old 3rd Mar 2011, 09:30
  #3321 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 217
When I travelled as a passenger recently I was given the wine list and automatically wanted the wine I had just been told was not available today!
Now there's something I can agree with! I've taken to just asking what they've got as invariably whatever I want off the wine list is either not on today or all gone. The wine list was a stupid idea and it sets passengers up for disappointment from the outset.
Yellow Pen is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2011, 09:30
  #3322 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942

Ceesnapete and Flaps62.

Just to clarify that all Worldwide crew are all experienced crew apart from some Temp crew but most of them have left or moved to Mixed Fleet. In fact experience as referred to in the JPM is just six months !!! so not really something that requires a Worldwide CSD to manage!! Of course on Mixed Fleet they will need to look at this carefully on each flight.

Just like our pilot community, BA has always been seniority led as are many airlines. In fact I would say, that many would say, that the seniority driven factor is actually more of a problem in the pilot community than in our own! Depending of course if you are at the top or the bottom of the list!!!It is usually a problem when you are at the bottom but by the time you reach the middle!! You don't want the system to change !!

I can see however that it will need to change in our community but for other reasons than mentioned by other posters. As both WW and E/F are shrinking fleets and will have no new entrants joining in the future, the same crew will now remain at the bottom of the list forever!! This will mean that some crew will be condemned to get last choice forever and of course that would be unfair!!

These are all my own views
Betty girl is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2011, 09:34
  #3323 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 164

Its not quite as simple as that - wished it was. When seniority was brought in to bid for cabin positions in the 80's, it was the right decsion at the time. As time has passed, its become a milestone around Cabin services necks. Remember, this was agreed between both BA and the unions 'at the time'. The irony is that now, seniority only works for 10-15% of crew max. They get what they want 90% of the time, but for the others ? The 10-20% at the bottom get pushed into what the rest dont want at the time eg. product/crewing level changes, pax loads on the day etc. Inevitably where you need the experience, most times you finish up with the inexperience So both the crew in that cabin and more importantly the customers lose out. Brillient isn't it. As I said, on certain occasions I've swapped crew around but on a normal day, no way. Oh yes I've got balls, but CSD on longhaul I found to be the loneliest job in BA, so I'm not going to cut my own nose off thanks. I personally think seniority should go, as it gives us a hierachal system that benefits just a small minority. Hopefully its something BA will look into soon
JUAN TRIPP is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2011, 09:51
  #3324 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Northants
Posts: 692
Juan and Bettygirl

The good book says

The SCCM must ensure that, when allocating crew positions at briefing,
operational experience is taken into account and spread between the
front and rear of the aircraft for take-off and landing
How does seniority picking positions sit with the word "allocate"?
Flap62 is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2011, 09:57
  #3325 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 164

On the day, that certainly happens, eg if you have new crew, VCC's etc. On longhaul, all crew have flown at least 5-7 years min at the moment. So its difficult 'to work out' who is experienced and who isn't in what cabin
JUAN TRIPP is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2011, 10:24
  #3326 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Northants
Posts: 692
Fair do's

Shall we leave this now and let the thread get back on topic?
Flap62 is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2011, 10:26
  #3327 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California
Age: 35
Posts: 1
thank you very much for sharings...i really enjoy all of these posts..
allenmark is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2011, 10:35
  #3328 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942

Flaps 62,

Exactly what you say. In BA's and the CAA's view operational experience is, it has recently been reduced from one year, just 6 months. You could have a whole crew apart from the senior crew member with just 6 months experience each and they would be considered capable of operating in any position. When someone has less than 6 months experience, you have to make sure they are working with someone who has more than six months experience. Obviously this is done and there is a limit to how many crew can be on board with this lower experience. ie on an airbus only one crew member with under 6 months experience can be in charge of a door and part of the core crew on that aircraft but on bigger aircraft the number goes up. This is why initially all the new Mixed Fleet crew had to have had previous airline experience and it is only now that they have got their numbers up that they have can take on completely new, new entrants.

On worldwide it would only be when a new person was on board or a volunteer that the CSD would need to do this. On Mixed Fleet this will be very critical in the next few months as many brand new crew are just about to come on line and the CSMs will need to look very carefully at the spread of crew across the various doors.

The CSDs and CSMs are putting these crews in these various positions not to aid the cabin service but to have a legal spread of crews across the door areas. That is what the JPM is referring to and not who does or does not work in Club, First or World traveller!!!

Obviously on Worldwide everyone will have miles more experience than just six months and on any occasion this is not the case, the CSD would be looking at it and repositioning anyone to another position if needed. Crew with this lower level of under six months are marked on the briefing sheet accordingly so, so that the CSD is aware that he/she needs to monitor this and it will be exactly the same on the M/F briefing sheets although it will need a lot of thought from the CSMs as they will be dealing with many more new crew on their flights.
Betty girl is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2011, 10:48
  #3329 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 944
MF Crew

Just for info I have recently completed a pax trip Lhr/Den/Lhr, first experience of MF route.
On way out service a bit slow due inexperience etc, but very smart appearanced crew, and extremly friendly. Only experienced travelers would notice the difference.
On Den/Lhr could not tell the difference between MF and 'old WW'. Efficient and friendly, and again very smart appearance.
Both flights near full.(A VCC on return sector probably helped the service given though)
An ex. Ezy lady we chatted to said the money not great at the moment but lifestyle/routes/aicraft types in BA beat the hell out of 4/5 sectors a day around Europe in her previous life, and friends of hers queing up to join!!
All were looking forward to extra routes opening up due to their upcoming B744 qualification.
cessnapete is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2011, 12:10
  #3330 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 164
Interesting info Pete. Good to get it straight from the horses mouth Yes The ex Ezy girl is what I think is typical and BA know it. Its the 'Bassa' lot that we cannot convince
JUAN TRIPP is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2011, 18:07
  #3331 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 217
Meanwhile back at the asylum.......

... apparently BASSAs latest edict is having a pop at BA Asset Protection for not apprehending Rajib Karim. It would seem counter-terrorism is now within their scope of operations and they should have picked him up as he was only working a few offices down from them. Perhaps BASSA believe that Waterside stretches all the way from Harmondsworth to Newcastle?

Mind you, their geography was never that good. Remember when they said BA should operate a shuttle to Mexico City from Barbados?
Yellow Pen is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2011, 21:13
  #3332 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 4
New Fleet

Having read much about New Fleet, I thought it worth a comment. I have just flown as passenger in Club World to Denver. I was impressed by the bright smiling faces and very smart uniform standards. Throughout the service was impecable. Only one crew member had former BA service experience, the remainder from airlines such as Aer Lingus and Easyjet. I am not saying ww would not have been as good but it could not have been better. Maybe BA are doing some things right.
flywcm is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2011, 07:19
  #3333 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 44
MF Experience

Flew back from LAS a few days ago. It was a pleasure to see the female cc walk through the terminal wearing their hats, very elegant. The onboard experience was also very encouraging. The pax in CW must have been very impressed with the service levels they received. I certainly was. A key component of course is reward based performance. My wife had a conversation with the CSM, he was acutely aware of the need to deliver consistently high levels of service. I just hope that the GPM etc... accurately reflects their efforts and in turn the reward based payments. They certainly deserved recognition on this flight from my observations.
TruBlu123 is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2011, 10:38
  #3334 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Between a rock & a hard place.
Posts: 456
It is much easier to look smart in a new uniform.

A regular problem for 'us legacy' lot is trying to replace our old worn out uniform. A friend was recently told he had a three month plus wait for a new waistcoat. Yellow shirts are a norm.

This is because of a world wide cotton shortage - a result of catastrophic weather occurances. Thats the official line, or it could be that uniform preference is going to new fleet and the odd VCC. My manager somehow managed to kit herself out in a shiny new uniform and is at least sympathetic to my comments about managing uniform standards.

The management have made no secret of describing mixed fleet as elite crew. A cynic would suggest that leaving legacy crew to wither in aging uniforms only subconciously promotes the new fleet = elite fleet dogma.
PC767 is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2011, 10:40
  #3335 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Between a rock & a hard place.
Posts: 456

Were you one of the passengers who must have been impressed with the CW service, or it that merely a suggestion?

Last edited by PC767; 4th Mar 2011 at 15:43.
PC767 is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2011, 11:12
  #3336 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: birmingham
Posts: 8
Uniform Standards

As a CSD I have experienced the same problem with trying to get new shirts. I have been to uniform stores three times over four months to get new shirts and none are available! It is extremely frustrating especially for those of us who try to maintain high levels of customer service on all flights!
dolly bird is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2011, 11:13
  #3337 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: the edge of reason
Posts: 208
In an effort to get back on thread,

Can any BASSA supporter say what it will take to end this dispute?

It would help if abuse, emotion, supposition and vitriol were avoided.
Bengerman is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2011, 11:18
  #3338 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lemonia. Best Greek in the world
Posts: 1,665

Oh, pay attention at the back!!

it is simple. BA need to join Doctor Who, Back to the Future, Time Bandits and others and rewind the clock back to about 2007 when bassa could click its fingers, say "Jump" and BA would ask how high they should jump.

Time to go back to JB.
Ancient Observer is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2011, 12:50
  #3339 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: london
Posts: 177
There is absolutely no problem with delivering a seamless, brilliant service with the present number of crew on board.
fly12345 is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2011, 15:50
  #3340 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Between a rock & a hard place.
Posts: 456

Opinion. Not fact.
PC767 is offline  

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