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BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

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BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

Old 3rd Feb 2011, 21:28
  #2861 (permalink)  
 
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Unite is worried about the PCCC

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Caribbean Boy is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2011, 10:29
  #2862 (permalink)  
 
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If the planned industrial action is delared null and void then the company risks further action in the run up to the summer-either way not good for forward bookings,employee moral and shareholders.

Time to get round the table and talk ?
stormin norman is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2011, 11:15
  #2863 (permalink)  
 
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Not if the ballot is declared illegal because of it being a continuation of previous industrial action... In this case I don't think there would be anything Unite could do about it. Well, they could call for unprotected industrial action, but I think we can all see where that would go...

If the ballot is declared illegal because of ballot irregularities (like someone I know getting 2 ballots sent to her even though she is no longer a BASSA member ), that's a different story.
davecr is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2011, 13:37
  #2864 (permalink)  
 
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Does "PCCC" roll off the tongue?

It is clear that The Professional Cabin Crew Council (PCCC) is here to stay and will surely be a force in the coming years.

The council/union is referred to as "PCCC"?

Len McCluskey had a problem with it yesterday on Radio5Live and kept referring to the "PCC" instead of the "PCCC". I don't agree with Len on most issues but on this point I do think that there is perhaps one too many C's.

Obviously keep the official title of Professional Cabin Crew Council and use something more intuitive as an identity. "PC3" rolls off the tongue a bit better but what do I know about PR darling! Any other suggestions?

As an aside, some seriously good factual posters on here and have to say that unless you can support your post with hard verifiable facts then you are likely to be seriously examined and probably found lacking by the core of this forum. This is taken by some as criticism, I have read and re-read all of the posts and can assure you that in my opinion it is the former.

I'll get my coat.
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 17:10
  #2865 (permalink)  
 
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Stormin

If the planned industrial action is delared null and void then the company risks further action in the run up to the summer-either way not good for forward bookings,employee moral and shareholders.

Time to get round the table and talk ?
I agree that the uncertainty around all of this is and has not been good for morale, customer confidence and moving forward with the business.

I also agree that Unite needs to make an appearance at the table - and soon. But with only 43% of the crew community actively voting "yes" for a strike (less than last time and even less than the time before) it would appear that silence and delaying tactics are all they have left to fight with.

If they need to hold (yet) another ballot, my bet is that the "yes" vote will be even lower.

Its time for the views of the no voters / abstainers / non-union members to prevail within the crew community, and for dissidence to become the exception, rather than the rule.
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 17:15
  #2866 (permalink)  
 
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Rover90

The council/union is referred to as "PCCC"?

Len McCluskey had a problem with it yesterday on Radio5Live and kept referring to the "PCC" instead of the "PCCC". I don't agree with Len on most issues but on this point I do think that there is perhaps one too many C's.
You may have a point there.... but if Len could only manage the first two "C"s then he was still arguably correct.

Maybe he was just referring to the Professional Cabin Crew rather than their Council?
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 19:45
  #2867 (permalink)  
 
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GG

I also agree that Unite needs to make an appearance at the table - and soon.
Why bother? - Look at it from BAís point.

Call Unite in, reach an agreement, shake hands on it with Unite promising to put it to the membership vote. Then donít do any of that as CC89 throw a hissy fit with BASSA right behind, so go straight to ballot for strike again.

Ok, so call in CC89 and BASSA and talk to them directly without Unite, oh no canít do that, even if they actually turn up for meetings, they wonít sit in the same room as each other.

Really, what is BA to do? The Union is broken, it doesnt work as intended.
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 20:41
  #2868 (permalink)  
 
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There is a perverse logic to Unite delaying announcing strike dates. Skipping any legal issues, by holding off until the last possible date - i.e. Friday 11/2/2011, they can bring the whole of the Easter period and the Royal wedding within the 12 week 'protected' period for action. Now of course it then depends on what BA's response is. Unite could be desperately trying to bet the farm on a pair of deuces, hoping that BA holds nothing better. The suggestion that BA has been in contact with the ERS over the ballot figures indicates that all may not be well with Unite's membership records. Unite, according to press reports, seem rattled by the implication that they may have, once again, included people who were not entitled to vote in the ballot. It won't do their credibility much good.

The elephant in the room is whether strike action this time around would be afforded protected status. This may present cabin crew with a dilemma. They have three options, go on strike, report for work or go sick. The last option may not be a particularly good one given BA's previous action on those who threw a sickie. Looking at the letters from BA to Unite on the topic, it sounds like somewhere in the region of 300 WW cabin crew decided that calling in sick was better than going on strike. What those contemplating strike action need to bear in mind is that BA may decide that any strike is a continuation of the previous action and sack staff. Those dismissed would then need to go to a tribunal for unfair dismissal, but even at the end of that, BA is not obliged to re-employ them, just oay them some compensation. The management may reckon the price worth paying if it then removes a militant group from an otherwise reasonable community.

The talk of guerilla tactics is pure hokum. In fact is is worse than that, it could put cabin crew who follow such tactics in danger of losing their jobs for failing to work normally. It is sad some 5000 cabin crew choose to believe the word of a union that has no experience of running an airline over that of the management. It reflects poorly on both management and union and will end in tears.
Fender Strat is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2011, 22:54
  #2869 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Snas View Post
Why bother? - Look at it from BAís point.

Call Unite in, reach an agreement, shake hands on it with Unite promising to put it to the membership vote. Then donít do any of that as CC89 throw a hissy fit with BASSA right behind, so go straight to ballot for strike again.
But remember all the conjecture on what a fantastic move it was for BA for the vote and the potential no confidence in Bassa? Just think if the requirement for recommendation was not a pre requisite for the offer.

Having a recommendation is normally a good thing, but was it a wise choice this time?
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 23:13
  #2870 (permalink)  
 
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What it tells me, more than anything else, is just how far apart CC89, BASSA and Unite are from each other. ..add in PCCC now also perhaps.
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 23:25
  #2871 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Snas View Post
What it tells me, more than anything else, is just how far apart CC89, BASSA and Unite are from each other. ..add in PCCC now also perhaps.
You are right, of course, but it is just an industrial relations issue. There will not be a groundswell of idealistic support due to a game changing way of life. It isn't the docks mines or print, as the role will still be here after this dispute has ended.

It is a simple redistribution of wealth. The market dictates that an amount of employees are paid more than others. That has been addressed and when IAG post their first big profit, that money will remain redistributed.

Life's a bitch.
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Old 5th Feb 2011, 04:09
  #2872 (permalink)  
 
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Unhappy

VCC update is that BA are actively processing and renewing the qualifications of many VCC from groups across the airline. However, not all have been allowed or wanted to renew their SEP. To offset that, there are constantly new courses of VCC (i.e those who previously have not trained as VCC) going through Cranebank. There is zero sign of BA letting up on the contingency plans. Every single day BASSA delays strike action, the army to work against them grows.

Why are these people volunteering? Well a quick straw-poll suggested it was originally fear for their own jobs and now because they all feel they've taken their burden of pain; with redundancies, paycuts and changes to working practices. They just want to see Cabin Crew do their share (I know, MF & crew complements have done that from a financial sense) and then to stop threatening strike and driving our customers away. They see BASSA's tactics for what they are - agree to nothing , delay, delay, delay until lo and behold, "recession if over, no savings need to be made/agreed thank you very much, we told you BA would be alright". As a group, we are not endearing ourselves to fellow colleagues.

BTW, could I suggest the "P Triple C" for PCCC.

Last edited by Nutjob; 5th Feb 2011 at 04:21.
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Old 5th Feb 2011, 07:17
  #2873 (permalink)  
 
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Len McCluskey had a problem with it yesterday on Radio5Live and kept referring to the "PCC" instead of the "PCCC". I don't agree with Len on most issues but on this point I do think that there is perhaps one too many C's.
Am I the only one who thought it may have been deliberate in an attempt to belittle?

As far as the name goes, you beat me to it PC3
BlueUpGood is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2011, 08:51
  #2874 (permalink)  
 
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there are constantly new courses of VCC
Whilst initially VCC are being recruited and trained to 'stand-in' during any IA, they will continue to be kept 'in check' in the future to help out during times of mass disruption (weather, security, etc) as current crew agreements have restricted helping our customers during these times.

Quite ironic that these restrictive agreements that the Union are fighting to maintain are the very things that are fuelling the need for more VCC's (creating more flexibilty). Another example where being slightly more flexible in our approach could have offset the mass recruitment of VCC. Something that BASSA should have worked with BA towards.
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Old 5th Feb 2011, 09:56
  #2875 (permalink)  
 
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Absolutely hula, one of the biggest problem for an efficient and often bilateral satisfaction is the union intransingency ref: flaxibility with their poor excuse of using every possible excuse as leverage against the company and indirectly often to the detriment of quality of life and choice of the union members.
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Old 5th Feb 2011, 10:30
  #2876 (permalink)  
 
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fly12345

That basically sums up unions and I support it. Business is very capable of looking after itself, but some body has to be in a position to be independent of the business process to protect workers rights.

Lets just take the PCCC as an example. The founder members of this group are current employees who feel the need to construct another union to work as a collective. Ok, they want to work with the employer in a more moderate manner, but they are not trusting the business with a free hand to do as it sees fit.
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Old 5th Feb 2011, 11:23
  #2877 (permalink)  
 
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Unions provide a valuable service to employers too. They enable a single point of contact for negotiations on pay and other employment terms and conditions. A good union/company relationship is symbiotic. Inevitably there will be times when unions and the company within which they work differ in their aims and goals and a dispute develops, as we now have at BA. However, the relationship between BA and BASSA/CC89 - I deliberately do not say UNITE, has become toxic, the realtionship has become parasitical, the union is providing nothing that the company needs at the moment, but without BA the union will die. The problem is still what happens next?

When this current dispute is over, and it will be resolved eventually, will there be a working relationship left between the unions and the company? or perhaps more importantly can the relationship that there is left be repaired. One thing is certain, BA can exist without BASSA/CC89, the reverse is not true; unions are pointless without companies to provide employment for their members. BA does not need to repair the relationship with the current branches, it could choose to actively promote a new relationship with the PCCC or any other union it chooses.
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Old 5th Feb 2011, 15:54
  #2878 (permalink)  
 
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some body has to be in a position to be independent of the business process to protect workers rights.
I agree. But in this case, a simple poll would show that the majority of crew would welcome a change of agreement to allow them to accomodate their lifestyle. 2 nights in PIK? Anyone???
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Old 5th Feb 2011, 16:46
  #2879 (permalink)  
 
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Holley tribunal

Can any BASSA supporter let us know how Mr. Holley's tribunal went?

It would be a shame to not hear the outcome.

BA 'sacked man who took time off for union job' | News
BASSAwitch is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2011, 23:46
  #2880 (permalink)  
 
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Can any BASSA supporter let us know how Mr. Holley's tribunal went?
Somehow, I do not think that Mr Holley will be trumpeting any decision handed down by the Employment Tribunal.

By the same token, what interest would BA have to publicise what is, after all, an internal matter?
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