BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

[Flap33]

Collaborating??

Diut,

Thanks for joining the debate.... BASSA's latest update was that they had hoped to announce a strike ballot by today, in fact by 10am on 10/10/10 but couldn't because Tony Woodley and WW were having discussions privately at ACAS - and BASSA didn't know how those were progressing..... So how can BASSA/UNITE be trying to get a better deal for the crew if BASSA aren't even at the table????

I stand by my suggestion that BASSA are going to be recommended to accept any deal Woodley agrees or else go it alone.. As has previously been stated by others come 20th October UNITE is going to have the problem on 10,000s of public sector job losses to contend with.

Having held 29 days of industrial action at a cost of £150M+ WW is really going to roll over and offer you any deal which is better than that of June 2009?

[diut]

come 20th October UNITE is going to have the problem on 10,000s of public sector job losses to contend with.

I remember during industrial action,I was reading some of the posts on here and someone was always writing something along this line..

come the 13th of June they will all get sacked..
come the 10th of May they will all receive the 90 days notice..

I clearly remember that,and am sure flap33 you will remember that as well.
Nothing of what was predicted on here ever happened so maybe it is better to not make other people worry for nothing.

Having held 29 days of industrial action at a cost of £150M+ WW is really going to roll over and offer you any deal which is better than that of June 2009?

Situation has changed, we have now a major join up with Iberia and American Airlines which I don't think the management wants loomed by a strike threat so who knows what's coming!

As far as BASSA being involved in negotiations,we know our CEO would not deal with BASSA but only with Unite so maybe it's better for leaders at Unite to deal with it themselves.

Wishful thinking though Bassa being told to go alone by Unite..if you ever come across any of the reps or were you at bedfont you wouldn't even consider that for one second!

[Hotel Mode]

So it isn't that BASSA COULDNT (your word) call a strike ballot - but Tony Woodley took the decision to DEFER the announcement as he thinks he is close to a deal.

BASSA were going to announce a ballot today. They were prevented from doing so by Tony Woodley. Call it defer if you like but that is fact.

Tony Woodley has been negotiating over BASSAs heads and believes he is close to a deal. He hasn't even informed the branch what this deal may be. The chances of him un-deferring any ballot when he believes he has a deal vary from slim to none.

He and BA have given up on BASSA however the believers try and spin it.

[Wirbelsturm]

we know our CEO would not deal with BASSA but only with Unite

The CEO should never have been involved with BASSA in the first place. That was the responsibiliy if the negotiating teams not the CEO. BASSA seemed to have had an over inflated opinion of themselves by believing they were important enough for the top man to deal directly with them.

When everything fell apart due to the ineptitude of the BASSA negotiating team and their abject inability to accept what was going on in the world around them it necessitated that the discussions be taken to a totally new level, that of the CEO and Unite, bypassing BASSA altogether.

What will be interesting to see now is if the top dogs at Unite have also had enough of BASSA as well and have 'strongarmed' them into accepting a deal. The 'behind the scenes' will never make the lught of day but I think we are all interested to see if the deal is workable and put this sorry mess behind us.

[Hotel Mode]

Situation has changed, we have now a major join up with Iberia and American Airlines which I don't think the management wants loomed by a strike threat

It's not a threat anymore. BA have 3800 VCCs trained and ready to fly. There are only a maximum 4200 strikers. It's just not a credible threat anymore. The press aren't remotely interested and our flights are full because our frequent flyers know they'll fly come what may.

[MissM]

I should certainly hope that this proposal includes return of ST without any sanctions. Unless it does I can't be bothered to even read any further what the proposal has to offer. Perhaps BA should ask themselves how those who have lost ST will vote unless the proposal includes a full reinstatement of it?

BASSA are the ones who can put an end to this dispute and will do so when they have received a satisfactory proposal. Not Unite. Not BA.

Pornpants1

I would however speculate, that in order to get New Fleet off the table, and staff travel back, the proposal may contain something along the lines of another Purser off long haul aircraft to be replaced by main crew, some of those cost saving could be used to offer VR for those disenchanted with BA

Removing another purser from WW aircraft? We are currently too many pursers on WW and still BA seem to struggle with both scheduling and getting their numbers correctly. Pursers have been offered to work down and yet you sometimes get to the briefing room only to see that several pursers are working down whilst main cabin crew on standby have been called out to operate up as a purser. It's laughable.

[Wirbelsturm]

BASSA are the ones who can put an end to this dispute and will do so when they have received a satisfactory proposal. Not Unite. Not BA.

Unless Unite no longer agree to bankroll BASSA during the dispute which would put BASSA in a little bit of a pickle.

I feel that Unite are rueing the day that the Union rule changes removed their ability to dictate change to the sub branch. I might suggest that the fact that the branch held an unofficcial 'show of hands' to extend its tenure beyond that normally allowed without re-election might give Unite a legal loophole to enforce change.

We will see as everything is conjecture up until this point.

[diut]

It's not a threat anymore. BA have 3800 VCCs trained and ready to fly. There are only a maximum 4200 strikers.

it is over 7000,and i guess the only way is to go and have that verified at UNITE OFFICES if you wished.

Talking about the VCC.. I did not fly during industrial action so I just had to take the words I read about them,claiming how easy it was,etc but I have now flown with them extensively on their supernumerary flights and it frightens me to think you count on them where safety is concerned.
They have been very apologetic on the flight and I appreciate it is not easy to remember everything -I was probably in a similar situation on my supernumerary flight but flying day after day was the key to fill those gaps.

These man/women are not flying again for another 2/3 months depending on strike action or not, so I doubt those gaps will be filled by then.

I will not go into details because it is too much but if you knew the gaps in knowledge- and not service wise- you would be re-thinking.

[MissM]

it is over 7000,and i guess the only way is to go and have that verified at UNITE OFFICES if you wished.

BA apparently have other figures. Don't forget that BA are not allowed to lie as they have to present accurage figures to the City...

I did not fly during industrial action so I just had to take the words I read about them,claiming how easy it was,etc but I have now flown with them extensively on their supernumerary flights and it frightens me to think you count on them where safety is concerned.

I understand your point and fully agree. I have worked with VCC during non-striking times and some of them have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

[Pornpants1]

MissM

I would however speculate

did you read that bit of my post?

I have heard chatter about further VR being offered but of course this has to be at nil cost to BA so therefore needs to be paid for by the Cabin Crew community.

BASSA are the ones who can put an end to this dispute and will do so when they have received a satisfactory proposal. Not Unite. Not BA.

That's very debatable and subjective! Even the self style demi-god Duncan admitted a while back he did not understand how UNITE works.

I worked for a union 20 years ago, and 2 things are king;- Membership numbers and cash generated from those members, BASSA ticks both boxes for UNITE, but who actually has the influence and purse strings will never be apparent to most of us, least of all of course it seems good old che guevara

One things for sure, where I sit, Tony and Derek have yet again pulled the rug from under BASSA, just like they did to delay strike action during the general election, and just like they have in the last couple of months since the strike ballot ran out, to think anything else is just naive

[doishquattroserche]

MissM,
regarding this,

"I should certainly hope that this proposal includes return of ST without any sanctions. Unless it does I can't be bothered to even read any further what the proposal has to offer. Perhaps BA should ask themselves how those who have lost ST will vote unless the proposal includes a full reinstatement of it?

BASSA are the ones who can put an end to this dispute and will do so when they have received a satisfactory proposal. Not Unite. Not BA."

Totally agree with the first sentence ,second sentence ,that's your call.The 3rd sentence ,they will have and can bear any consequences.Regarding the second paragraph ,you are wrong. The crew will be balloted ,THEY are the only ones who can end this dispute . No,I correct myself,BA can right now ,by giving anything up ,but it chooses not to ,speaks volumes does it not?
I'm terribly upset to see some fine colleagues caught in the crossfire of all this .When will BASSA get the idea that it is incredibly tough but strong to get a deal ,worts and all ,stay united (pardon the pun) and try to improve conditions in future economic "good weather"?
I fully agree with you that the removal of ST is very,very devisive and has hurt some very committed ,professional crew. It might be legal (just) but somehow it aint quite right. I still fail to grasp the concept that although ST is a concession ,I thought it was illegal to discriminate between strikers and non-strikers,any ideas anyone?

[diut]

BA apparently have other figures. Don't forget that BA are not allowed to lie as they have to present accurage figures to the City...

missm I know, I have challenged that and it look as the claims were over 7000. The management has never given a figure as you know.
The only thing our CEO said on an interview is that according to him it was about 5000 at that stage that had lost staff travel. he never said people who went on strike. WHY,WOULDN'T HE?? Losing staff travel wasn't updated straight away..it was always retrospective..so maybe at that stage it was about 5000!

Bassa and Unite have used the loss of staff travel and pay claim to determine the number of people who went on strike but the management doesn't need to use that parameter..they could simply say"" the number of people who went on strike are.."" That was never the case and believe you me that if the numbers were in their favour that number would be all over the places!

[RadarIdent]

MissM

I have worked with VCC during non-striking times and some of them have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

Very unpleasant MissM, everyone has to start from somewhere.
Still, practise makes perfect eh?

[diut]

pornpants,

One things for sure, where I sit, Tony and Derek have yet again pulled the rug from under BASSA, just like they did to delay strike action during the general election, and just like they have in the last couple of months since the strike ballot ran out, to think anything else is just naive

you really don't have much of an idea.the delays are down to making sure that everything is done right.
having been in the situation before of having a strike called off because of irregularities, from what I gather BASSA and Unite were trying to consider all the possibilities before going out with a ballot..and that takes time.
We don't want to end up in a situation like last Christmas or the Pilots one that was stopped because of wrong doings from the union.
To think it s down to anything else is just wishful thinking..

[Pornpants1]

diut

you really don't have much of an idea.the delays are down to making sure that everything is done right.
having been in the situation before of having a strike called off because of irregularities, from what I gather BASSA and Unite were trying to consider all the possibilities before going out with a ballot..and that takes time.
We don't want to end up in a situation like last Christmas or the Pilots one that was stopped because of wrong doings from the union.
To think it s down to anything else is just wishful thinking..

Not really, Duncan wants to lead you all out on another fruitless strike, UNITE know this, so they wont allow BASSA to Ballot. BASSA have been excluded from talks, and don't know what the "new deal"is

we are unable to report to you the details of these changes,as we have not, as yet seen them

strange don't you think? BASSA "experts" not been consulted?

UNITE know that BASSA are spent, and will do everything in their sphere of influence to prevent further action, this may not be possible but UNITE will do their best! You cannot deny that UNITE deliberately delayed strike action over the General Election, neither can you deny that amongst the BASSA leadership there were calls for another ballot immediately following the end of the last strike period, that never happened, ask yourself why, and its not

the delays are down to making sure that everything is done right.

Lets wait and see what the deal is that is put on the table, my bet is it won't be palatable to you or MissM, but once put to a consultative will push any chance of industrial action beyond this Xmas

[From Tunbridge Wells]

Talking about the VCC.. I did not fly during industrial action so I just had to take the words I read about them,claiming how easy it was,etc but I have now flown with them extensively on their supernumerary flights and it frightens me to think you count on them where safety is concerned.
They have been very apologetic on the flight and I appreciate it is not easy to remember everything -I was probably in a similar situation on my supernumerary flight but flying day after day was the key to fill those gaps.

Well, it doesn't frighten me one bit. Ok, so it may take a while to find out what's stowed in which canister, but I have no worries at all about their level of SEP knowledge. The ones I worry about are the ones who have been flying years and turn up for SEP each year absolutely bricking it because they really don't know their stuff.

[Caribbean Boy]

Number of strikers

diut wrote:

it is over 7000,and i guess the only way is to go and have that verified at UNITE OFFICES if you wished.

Do yourself a favour, stop believing and repeating figures from Unite and BASSA, do some research. The figures can be found in my post here.

[diut]

Do yourself a favour, stop believing and repeating figures from Unite and BASSA, do some research. The figures can be found in my post here

the day the management will give us those figures through the intranet or cabin crew news then I will happily go with it.
But when a crew member asked on a forum about the number of striker..the answer was that they didn't feel comfortable in giving out the numbers as this would have not made any difference on that particular forum and they didn't feel it was right to give out the numbers.
Am sure it is still on one of the forums.

Well, it doesn't frighten me one bit. Ok, so it may take a while to find out what's stowed in which canister, but I have no worries at all about their level of SEP knowledge.

I repeat,it is not about canister at all or service.I didn't even consider that.

[From Tunbridge Wells]

I repeat,it is not about canister at all or service.I didn't even consider that.

So what exactly are you worried about? They've undergone the same SEP training as you and been in your briefings where SEP is covered? If you're genuinely worried about one then surely it's your responsibility to speak up and discuss your concerns with the SCCM before take-off?

[Watersidewonker]

The company are getting worried with court cases coming up and Xmas fast approaching added to this merger alliance etc etc another strike would see the demise of the little man. Other airlines must be laughing at the company with traffic growing yet still they can't find peace with a large section of it's workforce beyond belief. Others airlines are aware of how cabin crew at the company have been treated with regards to sackings,suspensions and staff travel add to that the vcc scheme they no longer respect the good name the company once had. Time for peace in all this dispute but not under unfair terms.