BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

[Wirbelsturm]

I'm not sure on a forum such as this which displays such animosity towards cabin crew that I want to give the links though.

Percieved animosity, Pushycat, percieved animosity.

I think you will find, as has been written many, many times before, very few on here have any animosity toward Cabin Crew at all. The majority of incredularity is directed squarely at the Union BASSA and their rather outdated and interesting (fisty cuffs in the car park during preliminary negotiations anyone?) negotiating techniques!

You read into posts what YOU want to read, not necessarily the intented meaning of the poster.

[Miss BA]

Being a "legacy" crew member as apparently we are now called.. I dont find any animoisty towards crew members on this forum. Thats why I come on here. Its more of a balanced view on here. Same over on the PCCC forum.

I agree we dont all agree on things but it would be very boring if we did!

[Flap33]

I too think that Unite are going to impose a settlement on BASSA (kind of ironic really).

BASSA face being excluded from Unite whilst still be in dispute with BA; should this happen I can forsee a lot of crew loosing thier jobs - BASSA just doesn't have the resources or expertise to take on BA's legal team.

The end is near, maybe Unite are finally seeing BASSA for what they really are, a disfunctional group of die-hards who have blown this whole dispute out of all proportion.

[vctenderness]

Originally Posted by Pornpants1

UNITE can't impose a solution on BASSA, after the strike that wasn't in February 2007 BASSA changed the rules, only BASSA can put a stop to the runaway train

The only person able to sanction Industrial Action is the General Secretary of Unite in this case either Woodley or Simpson. The nonsense that BASSA put out to members in 2007 was just that - Nonsense!

[diut]

BASSA face being excluded from Unite whilst still be in dispute with BA; should this happen I can forsee a lot of crew loosing thier jobs - BASSA just doesn't have the resources or expertise to take on BA's legal team.

The end is near, maybe Unite are finally seeing BASSA for what they really are, a disfunctional group of die-hards who have blown this whole dispute out of all proportion.

flap 33, I think it's completely the opposite of what you are saying.
Bassa and Unite are collaborating for a better future for actual crew and future crew.

What you fail to see is that BASSA is not a separate entity from us crew. What makes BASSA is the 8000+ members. So if you are assuming that 70% of crew -whether they striked or not- are a disfunctional group of die-hards , you might want to re-think.

[Caribbean Boy]

Diut,

Last January, Unite had 11,691 cabin crew members. If it's now 8,000, then that's a big drop in numbers. You may well ask yourself why so many consider their union to be inappropriate.

And 8,000 means 60%, not 70%, of total membership.

[TorC]

Originally Posted by diut

Bassa and Unite are collaborating for a better future for actual crew and future crew.

Better than what/when? Prior to the strikes, or now?

It seems that many BASSA members have forgotten what this was all about in the first place, and are indeed ignorant of many of the offers that were made along the way, but rebutted without a 2nd thought by their esteemed leaders. More seems to have been lost than can ever be gained now. And whatever maybe "gained" will no doubt come at quite an astronomical price. But that'll all probably be spun into a huge victory by BASSA in their efforts to remain in situ, and fed to the members who seem unwilling to question the hand that starves them.

As to collaboration, with BASSA & CC89 admitting that they are not privy to anything that has been going-on between TW & BA recently, that's very hard to see.

Therein lies the problem of belonging to an organisation that is tied into something bigger, with possibly differing objectives to those that it purports to represent.

[diut]

ast January, Unite had 11,691 cabin crew members. If it's now 8,000, then that's a big drop in numbers. You may well ask yourself why so many consider their union to be inappropriate.

And 8,000 means 60%, not 70%, of total membership.

Some people might not believe in what bassa and unite are doing,hence pulling out of the union. it is in your right to do that and am glad that people have if they don't support the union.

Numbers might have dropped due to severance and people leaving as well,as you know the only recruitment we have had has been with temps which are not unionised..so please consider everything as I would do. I don't particularly like numbers as we never know the exact figures,but I can only go with what I see onboard.

It has always been about providing or maintaining a future for current crew or future crew, whether it was the imposition-removing a purser wasn't only down to the service aspect of it, it would alsocut down chances of promotion,whether it was negotiating terms and conditions for the NF and so on.
Don' t you worry about people being up to scratch with the many offers that were on the table. I am one of those who was up to date,yes, even with the one who was contemplating the new fleet incorporating in the actual fleet.
I guess the management is free to do what they want,or so they have demonstrating in the past few months, so why not going ahead with it,even without BASSA consensus if they really wanted to? because that's not what they wanted.. that would have not interfered with our terms and conditions so why not going ahead irrespective of the union?

[Colonel White]

Diut

you asked

I guess the management is free to do what they want,or so they have demonstrating in the past few months, so why not going ahead with it,even without BASSA consensus if they really wanted to? because that's not what they wanted.. that would have not interfered with our terms and conditions so why not going ahead irrespective of the union?

The answer is simple. BA management do not want to give BASSA any oxygen. By doing things in a measured, reasonable manner,they prevent BASSA and Unite from screaming 'Unfair!' I suspect that BA management know that they can ride this out. BASSA on the other hand desperately need to demonstrate that they are doing something for their members who have lost out by striking. The longer it goes on with no progress, the more dispirited they become. BASSA's credibility is shot. They have signally failed to achieve anything for their members apart from loss of income etc. By not being antagonistic BA management have robbed BASSA and Unite of any cause for a further ballot. They have ensured that the union have no justification that would garner widespread support from either cabin crew or the wider union membership within BA. Back in 2007 Willie Walsh warned Tony Woodley that he needed to get BASSA sorted out. Woodley didn't and this is the result.

We will wait and see what the court of appeal come up with.

[Caribbean Boy]

diut wrote:

Numbers might have dropped due to severance and people leaving as well,as you know the only recruitment we have had has been with temps which are not unionised..so please consider everything as I would do. I don't particularly like numbers as we never know the exact figures,but I can only go with what I see onboard.

I like numbers because they can tell uncomfortable truths. The number of cabin crew who took voluntary redundancy was 1,003 - they left on on 31 October 2009, 30 November 2009 and 15 December 2009. So, when Unite balloted 11,691 in January 2010 for strike action, those were the people who did not take VR.

As for cabin crew who left BA: based on an average of 25 leaving each month, then about 225 would have left between January and now, bringing the Unite membership down to around 11,500. But it's not 11,500, is it? Only Duncan Holley has the exact figures for union membership, but it does look as if at least 2,500 have given up their Unite membership. That's a lot of people who no longer have belief in Unite.

[diut]

COLONEL WHITE,

what have I lost exactly by going on strike?

money? no,not really.I knew that 3 sets of strike might have had a financial impact but with all the overtime that we have had recently I can hardly say I have lost anything.. you win some and you lose some.

staff travel? it hasn't changed my life not to have it. I have got more important things going on at the moment than to focus on that. I have lived 30 years without it before joining BA so I guess I can live without it. don't know about you! The only reason why I would fight for it, it's because I don't agree with removing it for taking part in industrial action The ones you might refer to are commuters which I feel for if they are struggling to find cheaper tickets, but I am hoping one day they will get their money back.

I can't think of anything else, I still report to work and I have a very normal roster, I still have my days off, I still go on holiday I still have a healthy relation with my managers and with my colleagues and I do everything to see passenger leaving with a smile on their face so what should I worry about for having gone on strike? NOTHING!

most importantly I feel good with my decision.

[Wirbelsturm]

but I am hoping one day they will get their money back.

Whether or not ST is re-instated I would take great exception at commuters 'getting their money back'.

No-one from BA pays for my petrol when I drive to and from work as it was my choice to live where I live and my choice alone. BA didn't force people to live abroad and commute, that again was their choice.

So, even if ST is given back the price of ignoring the company when they said it would go was the cost of their commuting. If BASSA persue the company for the repayment of travel costs then it will be yet another biased decision from a Union that can no longer see the wood for the trees.

[Juan Tugoh]

If BASSA persue the company for the repayment of travel costs then it will be yet another biased decision from a Union that can no longer see the wood for the trees.

I suspect that the HMRC would also be interested in such a move, as it would prove a clear financial motive and gain for commuting. It may well change the deal as far as the taxman is concerned, provoking a tax bill that may well exceed the value of the rebate. The "statute of limitations" on tax issues is, I think, 7 years.

[diut]

So, even if ST is given back the price of ignoring the company when they said it would go was the cost of their commuting. If BASSA persue the company for the repayment of travel costs then it will be yet another biased decision from a Union that can no longer see the wood for the trees.

that is if the courts decide that it wasn't legal to withdraw it in the first place for taking part in industrial action whether if we were being told or not.
Telling you that I am going to take something from you, doesn't mean I have got the right to take it.

But am not a judge or a lawyer so I don't know what the outcome might be.


obviously if the company gives it back through negotiation that doesn't come into equation.

[Tiramisu]

diut,
I take it you are Eurofleet crew as you state that with all the overtime available recently, you haven't lost anything by striking. Your location is also Greece, so how has not having Staff Travel not affected you?

[Wirbelsturm]

My point is purely that if my car breaks down and I have to use public transport to get to work then I don't expect the company to pay my bills. The company didn't tell me what car to buy or where to live, it was my choice.

If an employee is unable to use ST to get to work, for whatever reason, then the company should not be expected to pay their bills either.

If ST is re-instated then fine, but to pay back money only to those who choose to live overseas and commute is discriminatory against anyone who doesn't need ST to get to work.

Staff travel is a non-contractual and discretionary benefit granted at the sole discretion of BA and as such can be withdrawn or varied at the sole discretion of the Company at any time.

Seems fairly clear to me, especially the bit about 'withdrawn or varied at the sole discretion of the company'.

[diut]

Seems fairly clear to me, especially the bit about 'withdrawn or varied at the sole discretion of the company'.

it is clear to me,most definitely,and i understand there are rules for staff travel..

Am just saying I didn't agree to remove it for taking part in industrial action.

But,yeah that is my point.
I do agree that it is in the company's hand to decide whether to give staff travel or not especially if not correcting behaving while using it,etc.

I take it you are Eurofleet crew as you state that with all the overtime available recently, you haven't lost anything by striking. Your location is also Greece, so how has not having Staff Travel not affected you?

As far as this is concerned,yes I am Eurofleet and I have been living in London for over 15 years. Thanks for playing detective on me but I am free to have the location of my choice I guess!
Someone has planet moo moo on theirs..have you questioned them about their commuting!?

[diut]

f ST is re-instated then fine, but to pay back money only to those who choose to live overseas and commute is discriminatory against anyone who doesn't need ST to get to work.

wimberstum,

I know what you mean but I think some of our colleagues where employed abroad and those are the ones who I think will get compensation I get if things turn around.

[Tiramisu]

As far as this is concerned,yes I am Eurofleet and I have been living in London for over 15 years. Thanks for playing detective on me but I am free to have the location of my choice I guess!
Someone has planet moo moo on theirs..have you questioned them about their commuting!?

It was a straight forward question from an observation, that's all. No one's playing detective 'on' you.

[Wirbelsturm]

I know what you mean but I think some of our colleagues where employed abroad and those are the ones who I think will get compensation I get if things turn around.

They were indeed but, they were told that they could use ST immediately upon entry thus bypassing the 6 months where ST wasn't available then they slotted into the normal routine.

That was the ONLY ST concession they were given. They were not told that it was a right to allow them lifelong commuting to and fro from work outside of the normal travel regulations.

Posted from Planet Moo Moo!