BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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KingofKabul
Re: people leaving. I see this as a positive thing. It indicates that other companies are recruiting so business overall must be picking up. It also means that BA get a fresh injection of talent. One of the biggest problems over the past three to four years has been that we have not recruited many new starters. We haven't done the 'milk round' of the universities for ages, because we have't had the vacancies. Very easy to stagnate in those circumstances. Yes, it is sad when we lose good experienced staff, but that means opportunities for others to step up.
Re: people leaving. I see this as a positive thing. It indicates that other companies are recruiting so business overall must be picking up. It also means that BA get a fresh injection of talent. One of the biggest problems over the past three to four years has been that we have not recruited many new starters. We haven't done the 'milk round' of the universities for ages, because we have't had the vacancies. Very easy to stagnate in those circumstances. Yes, it is sad when we lose good experienced staff, but that means opportunities for others to step up.
Last edited by Fender Strat; 19th Jan 2011 at 23:19. Reason: original post referred to was changed
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I've never really got this confrontational approach to work.
My wife has these problems, god it causes me endless monologues, but she is South American so has an inbuilt fckwit factor, they go berko at no provocation at all.
I go to work, I don't agree with some of my colleagues, even some of my managers are pretty stupid in my opinion, so what? I don't throw my teddy out of the pram and risk my entire employment history over an opinion of people I don't know, why would I do that?
I earn a decent wage, have some pretty cool perks as an employee. Why would I get pi$$ed off about things because some guy with a sh1t haircut becomes the boss?
In this day and age, earning enough money to pay the bills, travelling a bit and generally enjoying life is not reason to go on strike. Unless you work on the tube and risk being replaced by a ZX81. Enjoy what you have, nothing lasts forever.
My wife has these problems, god it causes me endless monologues, but she is South American so has an inbuilt fckwit factor, they go berko at no provocation at all.
I go to work, I don't agree with some of my colleagues, even some of my managers are pretty stupid in my opinion, so what? I don't throw my teddy out of the pram and risk my entire employment history over an opinion of people I don't know, why would I do that?
I earn a decent wage, have some pretty cool perks as an employee. Why would I get pi$$ed off about things because some guy with a sh1t haircut becomes the boss?
In this day and age, earning enough money to pay the bills, travelling a bit and generally enjoying life is not reason to go on strike. Unless you work on the tube and risk being replaced by a ZX81. Enjoy what you have, nothing lasts forever.
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The vast majority of those posting last night are neither cabin crew or pilots.
Please be careful what you read and who you attribute it to.
Tolliver and myself were merely describing, for all your benefits because none of you are out on line by the sounds of your posts, why strikers may get another vote in favour of a strike.
It should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence that neither of us striked, so why some of you feel the need to come on here and use the tones you use in your posts is beyond me.
Please be careful what you read and who you attribute it to.
Tolliver and myself were merely describing, for all your benefits because none of you are out on line by the sounds of your posts, why strikers may get another vote in favour of a strike.
It should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence that neither of us striked, so why some of you feel the need to come on here and use the tones you use in your posts is beyond me.
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I've never really got this confrontational approach to work.
My wife has these problems, god it causes me endless monologues, but she is South American so has an inbuilt fckwit factor, they go berko at no provocation at all.
I go to work, I don't agree with some of my colleagues, even some of my managers are pretty stupid in my opinion, so what? I don't throw my teddy out of the pram and risk my entire employment history over an opinion of people I don't know, why would I do that?
I earn a decent wage, have some pretty cool perks as an employee. Why would I get pi$$ed off about things because some guy with a sh1t haircut becomes the boss?
In this day and age, earning enough money to pay the bills, travelling a bit and generally enjoying life is not reason to go on strike. Unless you work on the tube and risk being replaced by a ZX81. Enjoy what you have, nothing lasts forever.
My wife has these problems, god it causes me endless monologues, but she is South American so has an inbuilt fckwit factor, they go berko at no provocation at all.
I go to work, I don't agree with some of my colleagues, even some of my managers are pretty stupid in my opinion, so what? I don't throw my teddy out of the pram and risk my entire employment history over an opinion of people I don't know, why would I do that?
I earn a decent wage, have some pretty cool perks as an employee. Why would I get pi$$ed off about things because some guy with a sh1t haircut becomes the boss?
In this day and age, earning enough money to pay the bills, travelling a bit and generally enjoying life is not reason to go on strike. Unless you work on the tube and risk being replaced by a ZX81. Enjoy what you have, nothing lasts forever.
MrB
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I am new to this company and I have never in my life been so depressed and downbeat.
The job is not at all what I was expecting - I have flown before and Cabin Crew and Flight Crew got on so well. In this company something is so very wrong and ~Im not just talking about current crew and new crew.
I was told by my ex to come on here, at first I thought all of you where ok but pompous - now I realise - you are part of the problem - you have to sort this out. Im new, my fleet is new, its not what was sold to me, but thats life and I will get on.
But you lot on here - dont you realise, you have to work with these people - you are so horrific to many of these people, its wrong, you are so wrong.
BA was never ever going bust - it wasnt for that - even I no see that after just 3 months - this wony last, belive me it wont last
The job is not at all what I was expecting - I have flown before and Cabin Crew and Flight Crew got on so well. In this company something is so very wrong and ~Im not just talking about current crew and new crew.
I was told by my ex to come on here, at first I thought all of you where ok but pompous - now I realise - you are part of the problem - you have to sort this out. Im new, my fleet is new, its not what was sold to me, but thats life and I will get on.
But you lot on here - dont you realise, you have to work with these people - you are so horrific to many of these people, its wrong, you are so wrong.
BA was never ever going bust - it wasnt for that - even I no see that after just 3 months - this wony last, belive me it wont last
As for being so horrific to 'these' people. I'm assuming you mean those who went on strike. I won't bore you or the rest of us who have 'lived' this situation EVERY time we have come to work in the last 2 years, but I'm sorry you don't work/fly with these people on a daily basis like we do. I flew with a lovely temp in August who had been accepted to go onto Mixed fleet. He couldn't wait, as he said working with 'heritage' crews especially on longhaul had been venemous - his words.
Quite simply something I don't and never will get is how crew in BA literally HATE everything about the company yet have stayed 5/10/20/30+ years. Its all take and no give. They want their beloved union Bassa to be back in control, so T/C's and any future changes (hot towel anyone!!) will NEVER EVER change. The world according to Bassa has stopped and MUST never move forward in ANY way. As for BA never going bust. Who knows. But it was never sustainable for main crew on 75% earning around 28k/year gross AND keeping the archaic agreements we have.
BA have had NO choice IMO but to start this new fleet. IF Bassa and those crew who support them would have been a bit more flexible, then I TRULY believe that your fleet would never have started and you could have joined BA on better pay and T/C's. But no, so we have ALL lost, every single one of us. Thanks DH and Lala so much.
Finally I sat with a lovely girl on sby the other week. She is on Mixed fleet. She stated very clearly that she had been a temp twice and knew exactly what she was getting herself into. As she said, she thought and hoped the basic would go up to say £14k. If it didn't she would after a year look elsewhere. I believe she was quite typical of the crew on Mixed fleet. I really hope things turn out for you, but remember, not ALL of us hate the 'hat' fleet. Far from it. Take care JT
Last edited by JUAN TRIPP; 20th Jan 2011 at 10:12. Reason: extra info
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Sorry for my rant - I was tired and emotional.
I was meaning both sides have to stop being horrible to each other. I have talked with some of the older crew and they are really nice peopel who went on strike because they are scared of what will happen to them in the future.
The feeling of distrust by them toward BA is dreadful and I dont think its been helped by people setting us up as 'Elite' when in fact we are also just ordinary people trying to do a job.
We are here to stay, there is no disputing that but the atmosphere at times is awful - please when will this end
I was meaning both sides have to stop being horrible to each other. I have talked with some of the older crew and they are really nice peopel who went on strike because they are scared of what will happen to them in the future.
The feeling of distrust by them toward BA is dreadful and I dont think its been helped by people setting us up as 'Elite' when in fact we are also just ordinary people trying to do a job.
We are here to stay, there is no disputing that but the atmosphere at times is awful - please when will this end
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It is indeed a very confusing and surreal atmosphere at the present time, for what I believe to be a completely fact driven individual I must admit recently I am slowly getting more confused and at the same time suspicious about the different strategies adopted by the fighting factions in this sad, useless damaging and dividing dispute.
I fully understand that structural change is needed if we want to have a collective future and prosperity and I don t have any doubts about the ineptitude of the unions in ending this dispute.
I also don t understand BA s strategy although so far very consistent in making and keeping proposals I feel that at a time where there is a need more than ever to have on one side as many loyal individuals as possible it seems like they are doing everything in their power to undermine the very people that at the present time are backing BA.
It really makes you ponder who are/is the real enemy to beat.
I fully understand that structural change is needed if we want to have a collective future and prosperity and I don t have any doubts about the ineptitude of the unions in ending this dispute.
I also don t understand BA s strategy although so far very consistent in making and keeping proposals I feel that at a time where there is a need more than ever to have on one side as many loyal individuals as possible it seems like they are doing everything in their power to undermine the very people that at the present time are backing BA.
It really makes you ponder who are/is the real enemy to beat.
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Juan Trip,
I don't think MFCREW was referring to cabin crew from any fleet, he/she was referring to some of the posters on hear that are pilots and office workers that just seem to want to have a go at ALL cabin crew full stop.
You know the kind of person, that thinks we are all lucky to have a job and that all crew don't need to have a decent lifestyle because our jobs are worthless and it's fine that the company just wants us to stay for a couple of years because that's all we are worth, a couple of years.
Not sure if they believe that to be the case for all people that are doing, apparently, an unskilled job, such as loader, check in staff, admin staff or is it just us because for some reason many posters don't see any skill in being charming to our passengers and looking after them and contributing to BA winning an award and being voted best shorthaul airline, the second time this year.
I think you will find that, that is the kind of poster he/she was referring to. There are quite a few on here.
Sad thing is that we were having a good and well mannered debate about things before people just started to tar all crew with the same brush particularly some people that really don't understand quite how complicated this dispute is now and seem to only see things in black and white.
MFCREW please be assured that out on line it so different. I have great relationships with cabin crew that striked and of course those that did not, pilots that volunteered and those that cannot understand why others did and all the dispatchers and managers. Please don't think that the posters on any of these forums are a reflection of what it's like on line because most of us, and of course there are exceptions, are getting on fine whether we striked or didn't (mostly we choose not to discuss this stuff at work). You will find that a lot of these posters just plain don't like crew and that is why they choose to come on cabin crew threads. They are NOT typical of most people that work for BA.
BG.
I don't think MFCREW was referring to cabin crew from any fleet, he/she was referring to some of the posters on hear that are pilots and office workers that just seem to want to have a go at ALL cabin crew full stop.
You know the kind of person, that thinks we are all lucky to have a job and that all crew don't need to have a decent lifestyle because our jobs are worthless and it's fine that the company just wants us to stay for a couple of years because that's all we are worth, a couple of years.
Not sure if they believe that to be the case for all people that are doing, apparently, an unskilled job, such as loader, check in staff, admin staff or is it just us because for some reason many posters don't see any skill in being charming to our passengers and looking after them and contributing to BA winning an award and being voted best shorthaul airline, the second time this year.
I think you will find that, that is the kind of poster he/she was referring to. There are quite a few on here.
Sad thing is that we were having a good and well mannered debate about things before people just started to tar all crew with the same brush particularly some people that really don't understand quite how complicated this dispute is now and seem to only see things in black and white.
MFCREW please be assured that out on line it so different. I have great relationships with cabin crew that striked and of course those that did not, pilots that volunteered and those that cannot understand why others did and all the dispatchers and managers. Please don't think that the posters on any of these forums are a reflection of what it's like on line because most of us, and of course there are exceptions, are getting on fine whether we striked or didn't (mostly we choose not to discuss this stuff at work). You will find that a lot of these posters just plain don't like crew and that is why they choose to come on cabin crew threads. They are NOT typical of most people that work for BA.
BG.
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Your right fly12345,
Thanks for that balanced view.
MFCREW. Please know that it will get better. I am encouraging all my crew to realise that you new Mixed Fleeters are more the victims of all this rather than the cause.
Bassa and an unfortunate management style are the cause.
Gradually current crew are realising this and things really will get better soon, I promise.
Thanks for that balanced view.
MFCREW. Please know that it will get better. I am encouraging all my crew to realise that you new Mixed Fleeters are more the victims of all this rather than the cause.
Bassa and an unfortunate management style are the cause.
Gradually current crew are realising this and things really will get better soon, I promise.
Watersidewonker, you're back! But so many folk seem to have you on their ignore list that you don't get responses. Today I'll step up to the plate. Your latest post:
I don't seem to recall any of your 'predictions' coming anywhere close to the mark. This "game of chess", as you put it, has certainly gone on far longer than you were so sure it would, and it has seen BASSA outmanouevred, hasn't it? Your last forum visit in late October 2010 produced this:
Remind us, where are all these court findings in BASSA's favour?
And despite your numerous 'predictions'of Willie Walsh's imminent downfall, he is still here, with the support of the Board and the City, and he will still be your Boss, as head of IAG. If Walsh is still around, and you despise what he and BA stand for, why are you still in BA? It makes no sense ....
What a long game of chess this is turning out to be. I feel we are now stronger and prouder than before to be supporting our union against this dictatorship roll on Friday another great ballot result once again.
The offer put forward by the company remains poor and a high rejection rate is predicted with BASSA members remaining firm in the view that the courts will be finding in our favour on many counts.
And despite your numerous 'predictions'of Willie Walsh's imminent downfall, he is still here, with the support of the Board and the City, and he will still be your Boss, as head of IAG. If Walsh is still around, and you despise what he and BA stand for, why are you still in BA? It makes no sense ....
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Hi BG
I can only tell you that NO pilots I work with "dislike" crew generally.
You do seem to react strongly to any perceived criticism of cabin crew. Yet, you surely cannot deny that many crew have a poor attitude towards BA , pilots, passengers, work etc etc
And despite all the criticism of Bassa, the reps and their conduct, at the end of the day it is the Bassa membership that allows - and even encourages - Bassa to behave as it does.
eg, On my last flight you couldn't believe the things said about BA just because they were expecting a bunked a/c homebound only to find a non-bunked a/c instead.
Then we all fell out when I declined their request to take their rest in club. I then found the csd resting in 1st during the flt! He was surprised when I told him he would be reported.
There are many great crew in BA, but too many not so good ones too.
You will find that a lot of these posters just plain don't like crew and that is why they choose to come on cabin crew threads. They are NOT typical of most people that work for BA.
You do seem to react strongly to any perceived criticism of cabin crew. Yet, you surely cannot deny that many crew have a poor attitude towards BA , pilots, passengers, work etc etc
And despite all the criticism of Bassa, the reps and their conduct, at the end of the day it is the Bassa membership that allows - and even encourages - Bassa to behave as it does.
eg, On my last flight you couldn't believe the things said about BA just because they were expecting a bunked a/c homebound only to find a non-bunked a/c instead.
Then we all fell out when I declined their request to take their rest in club. I then found the csd resting in 1st during the flt! He was surprised when I told him he would be reported.
There are many great crew in BA, but too many not so good ones too.
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Blu Rib,
As you know I am not a member of Bassa.
I personally don't work with crew who have a bad attitude. You seem to be really unlucky.
Just wanted to add that overwhelmingly the pilots that I work with are great but of course you do get the odd strange one from time to time but I would not dream of giving you an example and tarring all pilots with that particular brush because the vast majority are great to work with.
As you know I am not a member of Bassa.
I personally don't work with crew who have a bad attitude. You seem to be really unlucky.
Just wanted to add that overwhelmingly the pilots that I work with are great but of course you do get the odd strange one from time to time but I would not dream of giving you an example and tarring all pilots with that particular brush because the vast majority are great to work with.
Last edited by Betty girl; 20th Jan 2011 at 12:15.
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Well Yellow pen,
I do work on E/F and it's really is the best kept secret in BA but I did fly on World wide for the first 11 years of my career with BA. Oh dear I mentioned career!!!
You are right some of the old school CSD's and pilots didn't see eye to eye with each other but I think prejudices are on both sides.
I will add however that although I have seen attitudes on both sides of the door, some of those CSD's were truly good at dealing with passengers even if they were not keen on pilots.
I think this situation has polarized views on both sides and the volunteering of some pilots has not helped matters.
I have found some frosty attitudes towards me from some pilots immediately after the strikes and they totally changed personality when they realised I had worked. So I think it is really important that we all take people as individuals and treat them as we find them without all these preconceived ideas about them and without the need to generalise about each other and judge all by the lowest denominator.
I do work on E/F and it's really is the best kept secret in BA but I did fly on World wide for the first 11 years of my career with BA. Oh dear I mentioned career!!!
You are right some of the old school CSD's and pilots didn't see eye to eye with each other but I think prejudices are on both sides.
I will add however that although I have seen attitudes on both sides of the door, some of those CSD's were truly good at dealing with passengers even if they were not keen on pilots.
I think this situation has polarized views on both sides and the volunteering of some pilots has not helped matters.
I have found some frosty attitudes towards me from some pilots immediately after the strikes and they totally changed personality when they realised I had worked. So I think it is really important that we all take people as individuals and treat them as we find them without all these preconceived ideas about them and without the need to generalise about each other and judge all by the lowest denominator.
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I think prejudices are on both sides.
some of those CSD's were truly good
the volunteering of some pilots has not helped matters
Anyway we'll soon see how many bad attiudes still exist in BA when the ballot result is announced.
I'm not saying that all strikers have a bad attitude; but I know that not all crew on shorthaul have a "good" attitude. It often depends mostly on the conduct and outlook of the sccm.
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Betty girl
I think you may work in a vacuum Betty.
Perhaps as a SCCM you are thick skinned and don't see some of the attitudes and prejudices around you? EVEN on EF. Do you ALWAYS challenge things you hear that you know to be wrong, do you always performance manage on the day? Most SCCMs, even the exceptional ones, don't. The BA culture doesn't allow it, so we all pick our battles and let most unacceptable behaviour pass unchallenged. Doesn't happen that way at Emirates, Thomson, EasyJet, Virgin.....
There are good and bad people in all jobs and in all walks of life. BA is a large business and it's not surprising that we can't always see eye to eye with everyone we encounter. BA also has a cultural problem to deal with, where some employees see their employer as the enemy and will frustrate and obstruct any progress the business is trying to make. Window blinds and hot towels in WTP are just two visible examples of this.
Even if the number of obstructors is less than those that are moving forward with the business, it's not surprising that those unwilling to embrace change are remembered and held up as an example of what's wrong at BA.
I applaud and support unconditionally the colleagues that work tirelessly to move the business forward and help in tackling the fierce competition we face. To the others, well they may as well leave......
Perhaps as a SCCM you are thick skinned and don't see some of the attitudes and prejudices around you? EVEN on EF. Do you ALWAYS challenge things you hear that you know to be wrong, do you always performance manage on the day? Most SCCMs, even the exceptional ones, don't. The BA culture doesn't allow it, so we all pick our battles and let most unacceptable behaviour pass unchallenged. Doesn't happen that way at Emirates, Thomson, EasyJet, Virgin.....
There are good and bad people in all jobs and in all walks of life. BA is a large business and it's not surprising that we can't always see eye to eye with everyone we encounter. BA also has a cultural problem to deal with, where some employees see their employer as the enemy and will frustrate and obstruct any progress the business is trying to make. Window blinds and hot towels in WTP are just two visible examples of this.
Even if the number of obstructors is less than those that are moving forward with the business, it's not surprising that those unwilling to embrace change are remembered and held up as an example of what's wrong at BA.
I applaud and support unconditionally the colleagues that work tirelessly to move the business forward and help in tackling the fierce competition we face. To the others, well they may as well leave......