BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Thank you for that Betty Girl,
I have to say I was slowly getting wound up by some of the comments on here. I am not in the union anymore, so it's difficult to get a 'realistic view' of what is going on, since everyone seems to be too afraid (for whatever reason) to talk about the dispute at work.
I have to say I was slowly getting wound up by some of the comments on here. I am not in the union anymore, so it's difficult to get a 'realistic view' of what is going on, since everyone seems to be too afraid (for whatever reason) to talk about the dispute at work.
You need to realise that some of them don't actually fly or work with cabin crew and many are office bound and some work for other airlines but as long as they work for any airline they can post on here. Some of course are our own pilots and that is sad.
Just skip over the nasty posts because for those of us that actually fly for BA, we know that a lot of what is being said on here is either untrue or a vast exaggeration of reality.
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Tolliver,
I know there are many other crew like you who have recently left the union. I left quite a long time ago and like you I come on here in the hope of finding out information about our situation.
In general you can find out a lot of important stuff on here but you do have to read the odd anti cabin crew post from time to time. The situation Bassa have placed us all in has caused many to resent cabin crew as a whole and that is unfortunate but it is understandable.
As I say, just skip over them because if we don't argue with them they go away quicker!!!
Have you left to sign the contract or did you sign it last time?
Anyway keep strong, hopefully this nightmare will be over soon.
I know there are many other crew like you who have recently left the union. I left quite a long time ago and like you I come on here in the hope of finding out information about our situation.
In general you can find out a lot of important stuff on here but you do have to read the odd anti cabin crew post from time to time. The situation Bassa have placed us all in has caused many to resent cabin crew as a whole and that is unfortunate but it is understandable.
As I say, just skip over them because if we don't argue with them they go away quicker!!!
Have you left to sign the contract or did you sign it last time?
Anyway keep strong, hopefully this nightmare will be over soon.
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Betty Girl,
I voted 'no' to strike action, so when it came to it I left the union and went into work and yes, I have signed the contract last time round.
I strongly believe that the whole dispute was centred around trust. Unfortunately many cabin crew trusted their union more than our management. So who is to blame? Now the strikers feel 'punished' and distrust the management even more...
It's a real shame... i used to enjoy coming into work.. not any more
I voted 'no' to strike action, so when it came to it I left the union and went into work and yes, I have signed the contract last time round.
I strongly believe that the whole dispute was centred around trust. Unfortunately many cabin crew trusted their union more than our management. So who is to blame? Now the strikers feel 'punished' and distrust the management even more...
It's a real shame... i used to enjoy coming into work.. not any more
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Tolliver,
I think you have summed it up. I have posted similar in the past.
The strikers feel hurt and punished and that is what is driving them on, I agree.
People like you and me and thousands of other crew are stuck in the middle between a nutty union and a management who could be handling this better. How come others can't see this!!!?
I think you have summed it up. I have posted similar in the past.
The strikers feel hurt and punished and that is what is driving them on, I agree.
People like you and me and thousands of other crew are stuck in the middle between a nutty union and a management who could be handling this better. How come others can't see this!!!?
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I strongly believe that the vast majority of cabin crew are fantastic at what they do, so I really don't think your argument squares.
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A seasonal outbreak of cabin crew bashing & defending is once again upon us.
And once again, it ads nothing to the discussion but rather polarises people of good intent.
So once again, this silly willy waving needs to stop.
As per now, thank you.
flapsforty,
Moderator
*******************
The following was written by fellow CC and fellow Moderator flyblue in May this year. I found it interesting and pertinent.
And once again, it ads nothing to the discussion but rather polarises people of good intent.
So once again, this silly willy waving needs to stop.
As per now, thank you.
flapsforty,
Moderator
*******************
The following was written by fellow CC and fellow Moderator flyblue in May this year. I found it interesting and pertinent.
In the end, the difference is not between the "bad" CC or the "disinterested, driver" pilots. The difference comes from above. Whenever we see bad habits in the workforce, we see very bad management.
People are not born bad, they learn bad habits that bad managers allow to set in without taking action.
Without getting into the facts, it's not that one side is right and the other is wrong. In negotiations it is never this way. There are good negotiators and bad negotiators. I fail to see good negotiators on either side.
Having to resort to extreme measures is like the excuse of the husband who "had to" beat his wife because "that's the only way she would understand".
Extreme measures from either side mean years and years of bitterness to follow (and this goes for all parties), and consequently more problems for the future.
In this case there are no guys in white hats. The unions are surely pig-headed etc, but some of the measures deployed by management are frankly ethically disgusting (and would be illegal in many other countries). The price to pay will be high in the years to come. That's the whole point, the consequences.
Whoever has worked for an airline I'm sure understands what I mean.
People are not born bad, they learn bad habits that bad managers allow to set in without taking action.
Without getting into the facts, it's not that one side is right and the other is wrong. In negotiations it is never this way. There are good negotiators and bad negotiators. I fail to see good negotiators on either side.
Having to resort to extreme measures is like the excuse of the husband who "had to" beat his wife because "that's the only way she would understand".
Extreme measures from either side mean years and years of bitterness to follow (and this goes for all parties), and consequently more problems for the future.
In this case there are no guys in white hats. The unions are surely pig-headed etc, but some of the measures deployed by management are frankly ethically disgusting (and would be illegal in many other countries). The price to pay will be high in the years to come. That's the whole point, the consequences.
Whoever has worked for an airline I'm sure understands what I mean.
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Great quote flapsforty!A very accurate insight on how adults should not behave.Unfortunately at all levels of the pecking order, adulthood seems to reach certain people very late in life.
Thanks for keeping the debate into perspective.
Thanks for keeping the debate into perspective.
Last edited by crew74; 30th Dec 2010 at 14:23.
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'Bad negociators on both sides' seems to me about correct. But whilst we are arguing about staff travel and hot towels and the abilities of the negociators other things are happening, the world is moving on; taking order slots and pushing ahead.
Boeing 747 and Airbus A380 Aircraft News from Flightglobal
Think about an Emirates with 90 or thereabouts A380s and other airlines snapping up order options, pushing ahead and improving their market shares.
That's the real world out there.
Boeing 747 and Airbus A380 Aircraft News from Flightglobal
Think about an Emirates with 90 or thereabouts A380s and other airlines snapping up order options, pushing ahead and improving their market shares.
That's the real world out there.
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I always had a sneaky feeling that this dispute escalated to a large extent because of clashing strong-willed (or should I say stubborn) personalities - question is: will the changes in the leadership in Unite and BA turn things around or will there be more of the same?
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I doubt the changes you mention will have an effect. Red Len needs to look like a strong man, he has bigger and more important disputes ahead in the public sector. BA have not been driven by personalities but by numbers; they need to bring cabin crew costs in line with industry standards. The numbers haven't changed. Keith Williams is BAs leading numbers man and is still answerable to Willie Walsh. There's plenty of evidence that BA and Unite can work together perfectly well as they have reached agreement in all other branches and Tony Woodley previously offered a deal he said was they best that could be reached. That deal was scuppered not by personalities in BA or Unite but by the dozen strong clique at the heart of BASSA and Amicus who are determined to continue their personal crusades. BASSA have even suspended all reps elections until after the dispute to cement these people into their positions of power. The only thing that will end this dispute is cabin crew saying Enough! to their union reps and accepting they cannot turn the clock back. Only a No vote to strike action will make their reps see sense.
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Betty wrote
As a skipper for BA I, and most of my colleagues, can see this.
As individuals you have the opportunity to use your ballot wisely and show your 'nutty' superiors a path to a more enjoyable work place.
When this is all over I hope we can rid ourselves of those willy-wavers that sit in the DOM section and the BASSA Head Office. They're both a waste of space and they both seem to continually strive to prove that!
"People like you and me and thousands of other crew are stuck in the middle between a nutty union and a management who could be handling this better. How come others can't see this!!!?"
As individuals you have the opportunity to use your ballot wisely and show your 'nutty' superiors a path to a more enjoyable work place.
When this is all over I hope we can rid ourselves of those willy-wavers that sit in the DOM section and the BASSA Head Office. They're both a waste of space and they both seem to continually strive to prove that!
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Yes Right Engine,
Lets hope that happens.
As for myself and many of the moderate cabin crew posters on here, we are no longer in the union and are just spectators, so to speak, like you pilots.
Lets hope that happens.
As for myself and many of the moderate cabin crew posters on here, we are no longer in the union and are just spectators, so to speak, like you pilots.
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why have BA fallen down the charts to 6th choice?
“The postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent British Airways’ positions, strategies or opinions.”
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Right Engine
Actually these guys are fantastic, truly the unsung heros of IFCE and the whole operation would fall apart without them. I suspect you may mean someone else.
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ottergirl,
I think he was referring to the crew that gather just beside the crew ops desk.
Actually these crew are a mix of both Bassa and non Bassa crew just waisting time while doing standby or between flights but just after the strike a number of Bassa militants did sit around that area.
They now seem to congregate in the coffee shop area.
The desks right next to the Doms area are Mixed Fleet crew but I am sure he did not mean them.
I think he was referring to the crew that gather just beside the crew ops desk.
Actually these crew are a mix of both Bassa and non Bassa crew just waisting time while doing standby or between flights but just after the strike a number of Bassa militants did sit around that area.
They now seem to congregate in the coffee shop area.
The desks right next to the Doms area are Mixed Fleet crew but I am sure he did not mean them.