British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Joburg
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whether crew sign this new revised contract or they somehow stay on there existing contract, either way Mixed fleet will take over the more profitable routes.
This is going to happen.
This is going to happen.
Like I said before, apparently he has offered a contract which includes guaranteed pay, same T&C's as before.
I'm guessing it must be a change to the re-deployment agreement and something else.
I'm guessing it must be a change to the re-deployment agreement and something else.
Yes, they will try and starve you of work but the same will happen on the revised contract once MF has got to a level they want.
S.O.S.R contract changes, 90 day notices, crew being sacked if they participate in the next I.A if B.A can successfully tie this strike to the last one.
Let them sack me. I would return my uniform feeling proud of having completed a good fight against a nasty piece of management. I couldn't be less bothered as this company is not what it used to be. WW has done nothing but harm in a very short period of time. Some of us are pleased that he's leaving in a couple of months.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LGW
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So let me get this right.
6200(ish) went on strike.
3800(ish) voted "no" to the recent proposal
Hmmm. I'm not great at maths, but
Also, not forgetting that the union has (seemingly) told everyone a while ago that 3500(ish) lost staff travel.
Has Bassa got a magic calculator?
I think it's more about the claim forms. The number of claimforms around 6200. Actual strikers, at least half of that.
6200(ish) went on strike.
3800(ish) voted "no" to the recent proposal
Hmmm. I'm not great at maths, but
Also, not forgetting that the union has (seemingly) told everyone a while ago that 3500(ish) lost staff travel.
Has Bassa got a magic calculator?
I think it's more about the claim forms. The number of claimforms around 6200. Actual strikers, at least half of that.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: on boeings finest
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The news article just forwarded to me by a friend who left BASSA 3 months ago but still has access to the BASSA forum and got sent a ballot paper.
The fact is the only people who know the exact numbers of people who went on strike is BA, BASSA and UNITE do not have a clue, the admin staff at UNITE are snowed under with trying to sort out strike pay, and I am told by someone within UNITE that the office looks like "a bomb has hit it" (their words not mine)
Taking Duncan Holley's figures above if you believe them then it clearly shows that 46.91% of crew have gone on strike and supports BAs claim that over 50% have worked normally.
Now since I got back to work, the numbers I have been hearing is that 4600-5000 crew have been on strike, this from numerous sources within management who have no reason to lie to me
one even admitted that the number was more than BA planned for.
The numbers above tend to fit if you look at them in relation with total claims for the 5 strike periods.
Lastly
you need to ask the question (BASSA member or not), for which I am sure you will not get an answer; Who has authenticated the numbers???
DISPUTE FIGURES
Some of you have expressed disappointment at the low turnout for the recent ballot. We think the following figures may restore your faith, particularly as BA continue to tell blatant untruths claiming most crew worked normally during the recent disputes.
As of June 2010, the total number of BA crew is or was estimated at 13,300 (made up as follows ~ re-recruited temps approx 300 (non-union); ICC crew 690, Gatwick 1220, Heathrow 11,090).
If you take away from the above total Gatwick, where sadly only about 50 brave souls supported the dispute, the ICCs and temps, plus non-union at LHR (est 900) and finally the long term sick, plus those on maternity leave (both of these total an average of 700) you are left with a figure of LHR crew in UNITE of approx 9500.
This 9500 is the total number at LHR who are in UNITE and were not off long term, and would have been asked, and expected, to support the dispute.
As of a few days ago, the actual crew members who have claimed strike pay for at least one day - and up to 22 days - now stands at a fully-authenticated 6,240 (there is a further full in-tray to process, and claims continue arriving). That means nearly 70% of those eligible at LHR withdrew their labour, supported their union and refused to back BA despite the threats and intimidation.
We believe that once every application is processed this figure will be nearer to 7000, and every one of these have lost their staff travel. That equates to 74% or nearly three quarters.
This also means the maximum UNITE members who crossed a picket line is 2500.
Perhaps Mr. Walsh would like to rethink his comments about how “most crew worked normally”. It is little wonder no one takes him seriously any more and why his support at Waterside is declining. Every time one of his claims is proved to be nothing more than a falsehood his integrity suffers accordingly. The list of crew who have been paid strike pay is there for anyone to see.
(Finally if you were on strike and have not submitted a claim please do so asap if only so we can get a precise figure).
Some of you have expressed disappointment at the low turnout for the recent ballot. We think the following figures may restore your faith, particularly as BA continue to tell blatant untruths claiming most crew worked normally during the recent disputes.
As of June 2010, the total number of BA crew is or was estimated at 13,300 (made up as follows ~ re-recruited temps approx 300 (non-union); ICC crew 690, Gatwick 1220, Heathrow 11,090).
If you take away from the above total Gatwick, where sadly only about 50 brave souls supported the dispute, the ICCs and temps, plus non-union at LHR (est 900) and finally the long term sick, plus those on maternity leave (both of these total an average of 700) you are left with a figure of LHR crew in UNITE of approx 9500.
This 9500 is the total number at LHR who are in UNITE and were not off long term, and would have been asked, and expected, to support the dispute.
As of a few days ago, the actual crew members who have claimed strike pay for at least one day - and up to 22 days - now stands at a fully-authenticated 6,240 (there is a further full in-tray to process, and claims continue arriving). That means nearly 70% of those eligible at LHR withdrew their labour, supported their union and refused to back BA despite the threats and intimidation.
We believe that once every application is processed this figure will be nearer to 7000, and every one of these have lost their staff travel. That equates to 74% or nearly three quarters.
This also means the maximum UNITE members who crossed a picket line is 2500.
Perhaps Mr. Walsh would like to rethink his comments about how “most crew worked normally”. It is little wonder no one takes him seriously any more and why his support at Waterside is declining. Every time one of his claims is proved to be nothing more than a falsehood his integrity suffers accordingly. The list of crew who have been paid strike pay is there for anyone to see.
(Finally if you were on strike and have not submitted a claim please do so asap if only so we can get a precise figure).
The fact is the only people who know the exact numbers of people who went on strike is BA, BASSA and UNITE do not have a clue, the admin staff at UNITE are snowed under with trying to sort out strike pay, and I am told by someone within UNITE that the office looks like "a bomb has hit it" (their words not mine)
Taking Duncan Holley's figures above if you believe them then it clearly shows that 46.91% of crew have gone on strike and supports BAs claim that over 50% have worked normally.
Now since I got back to work, the numbers I have been hearing is that 4600-5000 crew have been on strike, this from numerous sources within management who have no reason to lie to me
one even admitted that the number was more than BA planned for.The numbers above tend to fit if you look at them in relation with total claims for the 5 strike periods.
Lastly
now stands at a fully-authenticated 6,240
DF wrote:
Coming from an 'expert', it sounds so ... well .... pot-calling-kettle.
So much rubbish is spouted on this thread by people who think they know what they are saying, it is laughable.
Coming from an 'expert', it sounds so ... well .... pot-calling-kettle.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Already the usual suspects here are trying to dilute the figures.
BASSA stated:
"As of a few days ago, the actual crew members who have claimed strike pay for at least one day - and up to 22 days - now stands at a fully-authenticated 6,240 (there is a further full in-tray to process, and claims continue arriving). "
This is clearly not the number of "claims", but those crew who took part in IA.
What a shame to spoil the party here, but the truth is sometimes hard to take.
The most importatn fact is that BA's cabin crew (except LGW) have not been the pushover everyone (and Walsh) believed. Now there will be a third ballot. Didn't expect that did you?
BASSA stated:
"As of a few days ago, the actual crew members who have claimed strike pay for at least one day - and up to 22 days - now stands at a fully-authenticated 6,240 (there is a further full in-tray to process, and claims continue arriving). "
This is clearly not the number of "claims", but those crew who took part in IA.
What a shame to spoil the party here, but the truth is sometimes hard to take.
The most importatn fact is that BA's cabin crew (except LGW) have not been the pushover everyone (and Walsh) believed. Now there will be a third ballot. Didn't expect that did you?
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: on boeings finest
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an addendum, it does rather illustrate the BASSA double standards, when BA manipulate the percentages, this is percived as wrong and evil, yet when BASSA do it then thats OK
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: on boeings finest
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DF
A flaw in your argument where is says
BASSA have stated quite a lot recently, none of it has come true
I now know of over 20 people who have claimed to have left BASSA in the last 6 months, all got the chance to vote, and all still have access to the BASSA forum, how do you explain that?
BASSA don't have a clue what there membership numbers stand at, one of the above keeps getting letters form BASSA HQ asking them to reinstate their direct debit...............
A flaw in your argument where is says
BASSA stated:
I now know of over 20 people who have claimed to have left BASSA in the last 6 months, all got the chance to vote, and all still have access to the BASSA forum, how do you explain that?
BASSA don't have a clue what there membership numbers stand at, one of the above keeps getting letters form BASSA HQ asking them to reinstate their direct debit...............
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Pornpants, if so few did go on strike, why is Willie now scraping the bottom of the barrel training up US groundstaff?
The fact is that the hardcore ( a word you obviously are familiar with) mass of strikers, will never give up. It is a fight to the death.
Walsh has stated that he will battle the union for "as long as it takes". We will see how long that is when the next ballot is announced.
Pornpants give it up, you are looking ridiculous with your ever increasing number of friends who are ex BASSA still receiving ballot papers.
The fact is that the hardcore ( a word you obviously are familiar with) mass of strikers, will never give up. It is a fight to the death.
Walsh has stated that he will battle the union for "as long as it takes". We will see how long that is when the next ballot is announced.
Pornpants give it up, you are looking ridiculous with your ever increasing number of friends who are ex BASSA still receiving ballot papers.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Americans have been lobying for the opportunity to be VCC for some time. Rather thans scraping the bottom of the barrel (and I think we can guess where your BASSA-stickered suitcase will be ending up on your next stateside) Willie has been inundated.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: on boeings finest
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DF, have you asked the questions of your UNION yet
1.Who has "verified these figures"?
2.Why are members who cancelled their direct debits and salary deductions in some cases 6 months ago being sent ballot forms, and are still today granted access to the BASSA forum?
3.Why did BASSA "round up the numbers" to 7000 when they claim its 6240 claims.
4.Why did they discount SFLGW crew when it came to arriving at the 74%
5.
says it all, a tacit admission that UNITE/BASSA do not have a clue
lastly did this escape you
I don't know the answer (yet) but its not a pleasant way to talk about your work colleagues, perhaps if you were not so derogatory to other work groups they may not be so keen to do your job
1.Who has "verified these figures"?
2.Why are members who cancelled their direct debits and salary deductions in some cases 6 months ago being sent ballot forms, and are still today granted access to the BASSA forum?
3.Why did BASSA "round up the numbers" to 7000 when they claim its 6240 claims.
4.Why did they discount SFLGW crew when it came to arriving at the 74%
5.
(Finally if you were on strike and have not submitted a claim please do so asap if only so we can get a precise figure).
lastly did this escape you
one even admitted that the number was more than BA planned for.
scraping the bottom of the barrel training up US groundstaff?
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Heathrow
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA lookng backwards... again
The thing that BASSA ought to be focussing on is not how many people walked out last time, but how they reckon to get any kind of support for further strike action, given that
a) the number of VCC has risen since the dispute began
b) the NF folk will be coming on stream pretty soon
c) those who did walk out will have found the cost impact was rather more than the time they walked out for. The question now is whether they have the stomach to lose yet more pay in a forlorn cause.
d) the LGW and LCY operations ran fine and the summer is traditionally when BA pulls in temps, particularly at LGW.
This latter point is relevant as it means that BA can extend their temp contracts to cover any shortfall.
There is zero point in striking if the company is able to mount a 100% operation. The fact that WW has publicly stated that he will do this should be a cause for concern to Unite as he has not yet failed to keep his promises.
Unite have no place to go now. If their figures are correct , that's an awful lot of crew who are now paying full whack for tickets. How long will they be able to keep it up ? Of course it might be good news for BA if they now are forced to purchase hotlines, which at least have a modest profit margin.
Time to look forward. The company has put forward its final offer. The union have rejected it. The company has rescinded staff travel from all those who took strike action. The company has implemented the reductions in manning levels at LHR and is getting the benefit of that. The company has implemented NF and will be reaping the benefit of lower crew costs pretty soon. What has the union done and what can they do ?
a) the number of VCC has risen since the dispute began
b) the NF folk will be coming on stream pretty soon
c) those who did walk out will have found the cost impact was rather more than the time they walked out for. The question now is whether they have the stomach to lose yet more pay in a forlorn cause.
d) the LGW and LCY operations ran fine and the summer is traditionally when BA pulls in temps, particularly at LGW.
This latter point is relevant as it means that BA can extend their temp contracts to cover any shortfall.
There is zero point in striking if the company is able to mount a 100% operation. The fact that WW has publicly stated that he will do this should be a cause for concern to Unite as he has not yet failed to keep his promises.
Unite have no place to go now. If their figures are correct , that's an awful lot of crew who are now paying full whack for tickets. How long will they be able to keep it up ? Of course it might be good news for BA if they now are forced to purchase hotlines, which at least have a modest profit margin.
Time to look forward. The company has put forward its final offer. The union have rejected it. The company has rescinded staff travel from all those who took strike action. The company has implemented the reductions in manning levels at LHR and is getting the benefit of that. The company has implemented NF and will be reaping the benefit of lower crew costs pretty soon. What has the union done and what can they do ?
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: staines
Age: 70
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE]
Deja Vu
And to those engineers who are going to be VCC, every flight I do from now on into LHR will have at least 6 pages of defects. Thanks for interfering in our dispute.
And dont forget the 1990 Engineers Strike when Cabin Crew and Flight Crew didnt log any defects so the aircraft could keep flying. What goes round comes round eventually.
Deja Vu
And to those engineers who are going to be VCC, every flight I do from now on into LHR will have at least 6 pages of defects. Thanks for interfering in our dispute.
And dont forget the 1990 Engineers Strike when Cabin Crew and Flight Crew didnt log any defects so the aircraft could keep flying. What goes round comes round eventually.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So 6,240 x £45 strike pay per day = £280,800.
If Duncan's claims are true, given that as BA stopped paying strikers from the day they went on strike to the day they were next rostered, and (I believe) Unite agreed to pay strike pay to match this, that's a big bill for Unite's already hammered finances.
If Duncan's claims are true, given that as BA stopped paying strikers from the day they went on strike to the day they were next rostered, and (I believe) Unite agreed to pay strike pay to match this, that's a big bill for Unite's already hammered finances.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ecosse
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Strike Pay
I'm confused.
If BASSA are asking for claims for strike pay in order to establish number of strikers, how do they verify that crew member actually WAS on strike? Is a photocopied XXXX roster enough?
If BASSA are asking for claims for strike pay in order to establish number of strikers, how do they verify that crew member actually WAS on strike? Is a photocopied XXXX roster enough?
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Statistics
We all know that there are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics.
So lets not argue over numbers and percentages and just deal in facts.
During all periods of industrial action this year I was operating on the 777.
None of the flights I operated on used any VCC, but all operated with at least 8 cabin crew.
1 flight operated with 9 cabin crew, the rest with 8.
I did 6 trips (12 flights) over the strike periods.
I had NO flight cancelled and worked my published roster.
So in summary in my eyes whatever stats are quoted the strike had NO effect on me or my roster.
I experienced greater roster instability from the Icelandic volcano.
I will let you draw your own conclusions but mine is that BASSA have no way out.
So lets not argue over numbers and percentages and just deal in facts.
During all periods of industrial action this year I was operating on the 777.
None of the flights I operated on used any VCC, but all operated with at least 8 cabin crew.
1 flight operated with 9 cabin crew, the rest with 8.
I did 6 trips (12 flights) over the strike periods.
I had NO flight cancelled and worked my published roster.
So in summary in my eyes whatever stats are quoted the strike had NO effect on me or my roster.
I experienced greater roster instability from the Icelandic volcano.
I will let you draw your own conclusions but mine is that BASSA have no way out.
the lunatic fringe
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Everywhere
Age: 67
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And to those engineers who are going to be VCC, every flight I do from now on into LHR will have at least 6 pages of defects. Thanks for interfering in our dispute.
I will then leave them to it.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well L337 the seven pages of "trivia" I wrote up on arrival included the no smoking sign not working in the CSD's office ( I am a no smoker by the way).
The Captain did not see anything that was not necessary. Next trip will be on an old A market 777, plenty of scope there to find defects. I do hope my colleagues in engineering are enjoying their cabin crew training.
It seems that the truth hurts, especially when our glroious CEO has mislead so many people via the media. Posters on this forum must learn not to be so trusting of management. Walsh has a track record of telling porkies. When the truth was dragged out of him at the Commons Transport Select Committess investigation of what went wrong at T5, Walsh admitted he knew the day before it would not work, but went ahead anyway. I think that at the Harvard Business School, this is known as the "s**t or bust strategy".
I hope the BA flight crew lurking here are watching developments at JetStar, who may recruit ';foreign' pilots on a lot less money even than the lower salaried subsidiary carrier anyway. That is the future gentlemen when you follow a course of appeasement. Dog walking on your days off beckons.
The Captain did not see anything that was not necessary. Next trip will be on an old A market 777, plenty of scope there to find defects. I do hope my colleagues in engineering are enjoying their cabin crew training.
It seems that the truth hurts, especially when our glroious CEO has mislead so many people via the media. Posters on this forum must learn not to be so trusting of management. Walsh has a track record of telling porkies. When the truth was dragged out of him at the Commons Transport Select Committess investigation of what went wrong at T5, Walsh admitted he knew the day before it would not work, but went ahead anyway. I think that at the Harvard Business School, this is known as the "s**t or bust strategy".
I hope the BA flight crew lurking here are watching developments at JetStar, who may recruit ';foreign' pilots on a lot less money even than the lower salaried subsidiary carrier anyway. That is the future gentlemen when you follow a course of appeasement. Dog walking on your days off beckons.
Last edited by Duggie Fashion; 26th Jul 2010 at 07:48.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hayes
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Glad Duggie is back. I do think BASSA been out woefully manouvred every step out of the way. However, before we all gleefully dance on their grave I can assure you it is no fun having a management puppet union either. Ask my husband! Impositions and unpleasant changes in T&Cs abound. Guess we just have to be grateful to have a job.