British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[Wirbelsturm]

Just to clarify, 2 crew on a 319 is purely for the purposes of returning the aircraft to home base in exceptional circumstances.

In all other circumstances the minimum crew is 3.

Hope that clears it up, some crew were under the impression that the over wing exits constitued a door pair thus required a crew member.

[mdj01]

Gingertom:
The reality is - There are more staff Backing BA than not! VCC in most cases are being covered by their colleagues taking on extra work.

Volunteers have ensured that, for the first time in my memory, BA has not had to back down when the union has held the revolver to their head and threatened to ground the airline if they dont get their way.

[sixmilehighclub]

WW same same..people who are getting used at the moment are the one who did chose not to strike

That's simply not true. Just to clarify -
Many of those who have not turned up for work are still keeping existing rosters or being rostered trips.
Its too arduous a task to check who has failed to turn up for duty and gap-fill accordingly. Some have been XXXX'd however. There is no consistency.

[Caribbean Boy]

Volunteers' jobs

Gingertom,

Was it not BASSA who suggested some time ago that VCC would find their positions under threat by being not doing their regular jobs?

This is just more BASSA scaremongering which has not deterred any VCC from working as far as I know (I'm happy to stand corrected).

I'd just like to broaden this to all volunteers, not just VCC. Volunteers' work is dealt with in a variety of ways:

• gets done by volunteers on a part-time basis
• gets done by colleagues
• does not get done
• is delayed

All the above apply to myself (whilst I have been rebooking pax, doing crew support or wetlease hosting), lots of people in my position just do the best we can to get the urgent bits of our day job done in collaboration with our colleagues and then do volunteering to help prevent the strikers from ruining the company.

[sixmilehighclub]

Gingertom -

Your post total rot - none of that is happening on the picket line. Pickets may be guilty of, however, singing a few catchy songs.

It just AINT happening.

I apologise.

I must have misread the threatening e-mail which has been passed on to asset protection and the police, with 5 other e-mails.

I must have misheard the striker who said my friends name was on the 'scab list' held at BFC.

I must have imagined the images online of a person on the picket line dressed in a t-shirt depicting Willie walsh as an infamous tyrant.

I wasn't party to a call from a girl who had been verbally assaulted as she left Cranebank in her car.

Yes, what I said was utter rot. Everything in it stinks of rot.

Six

[mastafreighter]

How about answers GT

Gingertom,

As Juan O and MissM have failed to address any of the reasonable questions put to them, perhaps instead of trying to wind people up, you could answer some of them instead.

Forgetting what might happen, all we want to know is: -

a) Why you think CC shouldn't have to provide real permanent savings like all other depts.
b) Why do you think senior CC should get paid so much
c) If LGW can do it, why shouldn't BA reduce LHR CC compliment and require CSD to help

Lots & lots more but we'll start small and work up.

Genuine questions awaiting genuine answers.

[giza]

New Fleet

For all the talk of new fleets, has it been published, what are the new T&C`s

[wee one]

@Juan O,

I have a friend I recently asked why he flew Emirates and not BA from OZ to UK. His answer
"because when you press the call bell on BA nothing happens" says it all really. Thats closer to the publics perception of YOUR type of BA crew

@Kierhardie

The moderators are cabin crew not pilots.....Diddums..intellectual my arse.

@Gingertom

Correct I do sit on my bottom looking at clouds. You sit on yours ignoring call bells. Lets swap bottoms and see how long we live...Or you ask me questions on your manuals and I will do the same to you on our manuals. Lets have a side bet on who will know more about the others job. Lets say the loser resigns and sods off.


Now to get to the oft mentioned long range commuters. The element and requirement to be properly rested has been visited already. What about the need to be acclimatised for certain flights? The duty times differ and may indeed leave the commuter illegal on another count in addition to rest.Particlarly from LA or Sydney. I fly ULR regulalry and it is physically challenging even when acclimatised and rested. I hope the CAA has a good look at this and throw a few in jail. Its just plain unsafe.

The fact that cabin crew commute from West coast USA or Sydney to a London base beggars belief. It is the only indication needed that BA cabin crew, as represented by Bassa needs an enema

[ns68]

wee one

Correct I do sit on my bottom looking at clouds. You sit on yours ignoring call bells. Lets swap bottoms and see how long we live...Intellectual...I doubt it.

What a high intellectual comment. So sad. you would think that you matter that much.There is a massive teamwork behind the right operation of an aircraft.Strting from engineers,re-fuellers-loaders- ATC- and yes,at the bottom,at the very bottom there is us cabin crew..You can make that airplane take off and land safely,but if something drastic happens in the cabin and is not dealt properly,FIRE,DISRUPTIVE PASSENGERS, ETC.. my life might not all depend on you afterall. We are all in it.

[Juan Tugoh]

All who work in an aircraft are part of the crew, this Flight Deck - Cabin Crew thing is a particularly devisive BAism. It matters not whether you sit and watch the clouds go by or push a trolley - we are all part of the same crew. BA seem to have, through poor management by MS and others and the collusion of BASSA, created a culture whereby it is acceptable for there to be divide between differing parts of the crew. For an airline so self-important on the subject of CRM, they are institutionally the worst airline at CRM I have worked for. We are all crew, all of us are integral to the success or failure of the company that pays our wages and serves our customers. The sooner we stop this stupid FD-CC thing the better.

[Right Engine]

Gingertom wrote,

Did you know that removing the £4000 from each Capt per annum would provide the same savings as £500 from each new contract crew member. Just a thought.

That is roughly what I have just taken as a pay cut as a 15 year service Captain for BA. What pay cut for crew? None.

[fly12345]

Juan,
As they say charity begins at home, may be you should concentrate at stopping the serious division and nastiness that exists within the cabin crew community before hoping to resolve the alleged division between cabin crew and other departments, may be by openly objecting and condemning to have a non striker list of names circulating and displayed at BFC could be a start.?
Integrity, bulling, harassing, imposition, double standards, lies, I really wonder who, why and where it all seems to happen/.

[DextersLaboratory]

BA HAVE just reduced the crewing levels on the 767's. 6 ex main base, 5 home.

There is a stack of OMN's re SEP changes on ESS.

Bassa may say this is because BA are having problems. An alternative view is that the 767's were mostly canx, no VCC's, smallest longhaul a/c. WW has promised to fly 100% of the schedule, maybe he's planning to do this with fewer crew?

[malcolmf]

What a profoundly depressing series of posts. As a crew we are all responsible for the safe operation. Although a lot of time in the cruise is spent sitting on our backsides, it doesn't mean we aren't doing anything. In fact the most perceptive thing I heard once from a CSD coming up to the Flight Deck was "Just what I like to see, bored pilots". Trust me, you do not want to see us working hard
If you really want to see what the job entails, why not ask to sit on the Flight Deck for T/O and landing, particularly during bad weather, or better still try a Sim detail, ask any training Captain. Almost all of us welcome crew on the Flight deck.

[cessnapete]

Dexter

If you had read previous posts you will see the latest reduced crewing numbers on 767/319 are the CAA minimum crewing levels recently ammended industry wide, which would only be used in extremis on a get you home basis.

Nothing to do with BA. Coincidence that the notice comes out at this time.

[Strimmerdriver]

8 days later

If i was a striker i would be asking this...

Can BA sack me for breach of contract from 12th June if i strike after 12th June?

Is the unite policy to strike until Willy gives up / is replaced ?

Is the unite policy going to change after June 12th ?

Endgame.

[DextersLaboratory]

Cessna

They are not CAA levels amended industry wide. Quote "change has been triggered by a review of all minimum crew levels across the airline".

Boeing evacuation trials limit a 767 to 290 pax with 6 crew (with our exit configuration). EU-ops permit reduction of pax by 50 per removed crew member but only with approval. Hence 240 with 5 crew. The CAA approved this after BA applied. The OMN's say we are aligning with EU-ops which is stretching things as this appears to be an alleviation.

I have read the posts and am trying to ensure factual and objective reporting.

BA have also said that there is no intention of these being 'normal' crewing levels, perhaps just to get us through some difficult times.

[flapsforty]

Originally Posted by Keirhardie

To a considerable amount of you who keep expecting intelligent, literate and factual replies as to the current ia and a stong well worded reply with facts to back that opinion. You will be waiting a long long time. Your moderators simply do not allow any opinions that differ and that are substantiated to filter through. I posted a very very long factual, articulate and quantifiable response. Quelle surprise. Banned for 3 months. And no i didn't swear or attack anyone personally or even like many on here use questionable attitudes "despise" anyone?

You forget that PPRuNe has a search function.
Which shows that you are lying through your teeth.
Rather than “factual, articulate and quantifiable responses“, you childishly call people names and attack them as a person.

Examples:

you just come over narrow minded

hopefully someone with more manners than yourself will reply

are just a bunch of selfish, self-serving people

someone who does not have the vocabulary, nous, or ability to argue a point...silly little man

Argument is welcome here, from all points of view.
Name calling is not.
That“s why you were banned.

Now that we“ve got that cleared up, I am looking forward to your factual, articulate and quantifiable response.

[RadarIdent]

Any ideas how this will conclude..

If indeed it does.

The concern will be of the militants still within the midst, so how could NF succeed with such employees and their agendas, if indeed they will be part of it? (if the ideas on here are anything to go by) Furthermore, morale needs to be addressed big time!

I'm really trying to look at all this in a positive light after this (unnecessary) mellay, but struggling. Any optimists out there...please?

[Runway vacated]

How will it end?

How indeed?

One of BA's problems is that, having bent over backwards in years gone by to be "super inclusive" and accommodate virtually every kind of employment type they have now made themselves hostages to fortune.

There are a significant number of very part time CC (50% or even 30%) who are, effectively "hobby jobbers". Over the years they have been nurtured on the "grievance" drivel that has passed for union comms from BASSA and now have a deep and abiding sense of injustice and entitlement. They also have (usually) someone else paying the bills at home and can therefore stay out for as long as they want.

I know that many people claim that part timers have a lower sickness rate than anyone else (which is not saying much, frankly!) and are therefore more "loyal" than others, but I am not so sure.

Given that one full time NF recruit could, potentially, replace up to 3 "hobby jobbers", mass sackings must be becoming an increasingly attractive proposition to WW. After all, he can demonstrate to 10 decimal places how reasonable he has been in trying to resolve this dispute, and that compulsory redundancies have now become his only choice.