British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[Cough]

Question to one of the strikers...

Could you answer the question of what you actually feel that you are going to achieve by being on strike?

[gcal]

When you start trading in personal insults most of us know you have already lost the argument.
Bassa seem not to have learned that basic lesson of debate.

[Tourist]

I'll admit I'm not a BA employee, so I will probably be removed soon, but I just feel that it is getting a little gloaty on this thread, if there is such a word.
It is obvious to everyone, even the strikers in their hearts, that they have lost this one, so perhaps a bit of magnanamity would take away the tinge of unpleasantness, and make the inevitable CRM problems of the future slightly less uncomfortable.

[Tourist]

"And with respect, as a non BA employee you do not have much of an idea of the bile and lies being thrown in the other direction. Or indeed the gloating over other depts losses."

True, but that is where the spectacular effectivness of magnanimity as a tactic comes into its own...

You still have another battle to win, and that is the battle for the hearts and minds of your passengers after it all blows over.

[gcal]

Tourist
I take your point but when you have been through months of angst, largely from Bassa but also it has to be said from BA then your magnaminity tends to fly out of the window a tad.
This needs to be sorted sharpish. The hardest cuts made first and all of us getting on with our lives, whatever that may entail.
No organisation anywhere can have a tiny majority of its' employees holding the rest to ransom.

[ChicoG]

I think you'll find Bruce Carr is BA's "man in the fray"! Stand by for a multi-million libel action

I stand corrected (and petrified - obviously not a case I can win!).

Odd that there's only one mention of BA - and doesn't appear to be a related case:

Devereux Chambers | Bruce Carr QC

[ns68]

I've seen posts that imply, in a worst case scenario, certainly as far as one particular striker is concerned, that they will be returning to a 'New Fleet'.

How on earth can the Airline continue with such a bunch of militants, who, not only show uncaring disloyalty to the company and it's employees (who continue taking the hit), and it customers, the very ones that ensure their mortgage is paid monthly etc etc?

Good morning! I am the one who wrote that. I was just being honest at what I think the future might bring us. It wasn't a matter of worst case scenario, It was in reply to someone who thought it would be impossible for strikers and non-strikers to fly together- (which I think it is not such a big deal. I am an adult and whether people did go in or not,it wouldn't make much of a difference to me..I guess from your words it might make a big difference to you)
Secondly, am not a militant. I wouldn't be ashamed in saying it if I was because I respect everyones take on life but for your information I am not. I have followed my vote in the february ballot, and that is what it is.
Thirdly, I think I have said this before. I do care about the company, I am a loyal and caring employee but I will not blow my own trumpet by giving you more info of this on here. It really isn't the point.

That reinforces my argument and that of others, that such a bunch of wotsits absolutely should NOT return to BA

.

Could you answer the question of what you actually feel that you are going to achieve by being on strike?

I will copy and paste a previous post,because my reasons are the same as yesterdays.
If Industrial Action is called due to majority of people voting for it-february ballot- that is what needs to be done.It is the way society was built on. If some people bluffed and they voted yes to the strike and then went into work, that doesn't mean that who's following the Industrial Action is to be considered silly into risking their job. I do not agree with a few aspects about Unite approach to this Industrial Action,but I also do not agree with the changes that we are going to go through if not succesfully negotiated.
Most people here seem to be convinced that because we have been told that we will be left on our t&c than we are safe and happy..well I remember just before voluntary redudance was given to senior crew members, that most CSD were starved from work-hence they took the final package and left- I was flying with these people day in day out on eurofleet and it wasn't pleasant to hear their story-they would be just given a string of availables that were never filled- I fear this is what is coming for us. That is the reason why I tend to support the union in getting some guarantees before it is too late. Maybe some of you are not familiar with this scenario-I don't think it was happening as much on LH.

As far as not return to BA is concerned,I hope I will be obviously,but if that is what is coming for me,I will have to get on with it. I guess we all know that there is worst things that could happen in life unfortunately.
For whoever is wishing for people who went on strike to be sacked,please keep on wishing it but please keep it to yourself.It really makes appalling reading.

I'll admit I'm not a BA employee, so I will probably be removed soon, but I just feel that it is getting a little gloaty on this thread

[screwdriver]

ns 68

most CSD were starved from work-hence they took the final package and left- I was flying with these people day in day out on eurofleet and it wasn't pleasant to hear their story-they would be just given a string of availables that were never filled- I fear this is what is coming for us.

If they were starved of work then how did you fly with them "day in day out"?

[ns68]

If they were starved of work then how did you fly with them "day in day out"?

On eurofleet we are mainly on airbus..so my day in-day out it was related to when I was flying on 767/757..and every single time this was happening you would here such stories..different CDS..Please, do not doubt everything that people say. It wasn't nice, I promise you..it did make me think that the company could do it to us if they really wanted to.

[Spanner in the works]

But what guarantees are you after.
No company in the world could possibly offer "cast-iron" guarantees about the future.
Especially companies operating in the fragile world of the Airlines.

Guarantees can only come on the back of a perceived stability of operation.
The Airline industry is only another global economic breakdown, or terrorist attack - not to mention the myriad of competition that now exists - from being on the brink.

None of us have guarantees. We work to certain agreements based on reasonable comparisons across the rest of the industry.
And these agreements have ALL been amended within BA due to the current ****e the company is in. ALL except CC.

So, can you not see why eveyone else in BA sees you striking as being grossly wrong and basically, a slap in the face for everyone who has already made sacrifices?

[ftrixiebelle]

Snackpack,

Sorry to hear about all the job insecurity and redundancies that you've told us about.

Just wondering though why you didn't apply for BA 8 years ago or when you were last made redundant (there have been constant recruitment campaigns). Salaries and conditions were better than the current 11K pa plus £2.40 an hour - but I guess you must have good reasons?

As for saying you'd work for the bare minimum (?) - times may be tough, but surely you respect yourself and what you have to offer more than that? Otherwise this just becomes a 'race to the bottom'?

[Caribbean Boy]

Guarantees

ns68 wrote:

Most people here seem to be convinced that because we have been told that we will be left on our t&c than we are safe and happy..well I remember just before voluntary redudance was given to senior crew members, that most CSD were starved from work-hence they took the final package and left- I was flying with these people day in day out on eurofleet and it wasn't pleasant to hear their story-they would be just given a string of availables that were never filled- I fear this is what is coming for us. That is the reason why I tend to support the union in getting some guarantees before it is too late.

So, you went on strike to bully BA into giving you guarantees. How about these offers from BA which you have rejected:

• basic pay protected - guaranteed as it's contractual
• pay rises during 2011-13 - guaranteed as it would be contractual
• monthly travel payment - guaranteed as it would be contractual
• existing contractual terms maintained - guaranteed as they could be amended only through the agreed NSP negotiating procedures

There are people who would give their right arm for such guarantees.

[ns68]

But what guarantees are you after.
No company in the world could possibly offer "cast-iron" guarantees about the future.
Especially companies operating in the fragile world of the Airlines.
So, can you not see why eveyone else in BA sees you striking as being grossly wrong and basically, a slap in the face for everyone who has already made sacrifices?

I personally understand that no company in the world could possibly offer ''cast-iron'' guarantees..there is no such thing in life, let alone at work.
If I read well into it, the guarantees that the negotiations are based on, are simply to leave the current fleets up and going for as long as possible without impacting too much our earnings.-(hence my hope that the new fleet would not be set up as a different entity)After all, I can understand an 18-23 year old with little or nowork/lifeexperience earning around £15000 a year. But I don't think I can do it.
More often than not, people tend to suggest for us people that decided to follow the majority of the vote and go on strike, to leave the company if we do not like it. To these people,I would like to say that I will have to leave if my earnings will go down as much as that..I don't need anybody to tell me so.

As far as sacrifices made by other dept, I am really sorry I wish I could comment on it as I have heard about cuts left right and centre but i am not very competent on it and everything I have heard is voices or rumours.
I am trying to do what is right for the future,and I hope everybody would do that for themself given the chance.

[Pornpants1]

After all, I can understand an 18-23 year old with little or nowork/lifeexperience earning around £15000 a year. But I don't think I can do it.

Who is asking you to do? BA are not reducing your pay in any way. BASSA have agreed to the new fleet, so why are you on strike?

[Re-Heat]

If I read well into it, the guarantees that the negotiations are based on, are simply to leave the current fleets up and going for as long as possible without impacting too much our earnings.-(hence my hope that the new fleet would not be set up as a different entity)After all, I can understand an 18-23 year old with little or nowork/lifeexperience earning around £15000 a year. But I don't think I can do it.

If the company and the union are unable to square that with the fact that the competition operate to those terms, then ultimately BA is a dead company.

I'd be running to fill the NAPS hole and patch up my CV before the inevitable bankruptcy.

[windytoo]

I am a member of a different UK airline but the overall problems that BA faces are very similar to the difficulties being faced by the industry in general. During the last year we have negotiated hard and subsequently have had to accept some painful changes to our Ts and Cs, however we are still in business and I still have a job. I am a union member but it seems we were given better advice/ representation than those in BA. There will be far more important fights in the near future of which the pension closure/ adaptation will undoubtedly be the bloodiest and most unpleasant. That however is in the future and we all know that it is illegal to strike about something that hasn't happened yet, just because we might not like it! As has already been said, some people seem to be treating the present situation as a game. I feel extremely lucky that I am in the audience and not on the playing field as the possible carnage that may be about to ensue is going to be very brutal for those concerned.

[Spanner in the works]

As far as sacrifices made by other dept, I am really sorry I wish I could comment on it as I have heard about cuts left right and centre but i am not very competent on it and everything I have heard is voices or rumours.

And therein lies the rub.
Equally I don't know what you have been told or are exposed to as far as the rest of the airline is concerned.
I am in Engineering and haven't had a pay-rise for three years.
Our work responsibilities have increased for various new projects and merging of teams, but the teams themselves are approx a 1/3 down on two years ago.
We have had budgets slashed too.

Yet most of us are doing CSP during snow and ash issues - never mind strikes.

The rest of the Airline is doing it's bit.

As far as I can see you HAVE had more guarantees over T&C and basic pay rises than I could ever hope for. I probably wont get one for another year or two. You WILL.

And you have to admit some of the payments and practices currently in place for CC are ridiculuous.

Not saying you should get the same - but when I go on a business trip I get expenses for what I spend - no more. And what I spend has to be reasonable or it gets rejected.

None of us like this real world - and some of us are pretty down about it.
But - we have accepted that it IS the real world.
So when a group goes on strike because they wont even negotiate (remember that this is why it all started) then the rest of us I think, are quite within our rights to be a bit peed-off with them.

Especially when they treat it like some sort of village fete.

The problem is not WW. The problem is not BA's board. The problem is the Airline industry and the battle to stay in it.

Finally, remember when al the negotiations started this time last year, the union wouldnt even accept that BA was in the poo. Kept saying that it's a bluff to get us to accept change.
And that was just round one.

Now we are bickering over a perk that some might lose.

How crazy/mad/short-sighted is that?

[ns68]

So, you went on strike to bully BA into giving you guarantees. How about these offers from BA which you have rejected:

• basic pay protected - guaranteed as it's contractual
• pay rises during 2011-13 - guaranteed as it would be contractual
• monthly travel payment - guaranteed as it would be contractual
• existing contractual terms maintained - guaranteed as they could be amended only through the agreed NSP negotiating procedures

There are people who would give their right arm for such guarantees.

To start with, please do not use words that are completely unnecessary - I decided to stick to my vote for my own integrity not to bully anyone into anything-
Initially I thought it was the best thing to do anyway- I gave a few reason in my previous posts,future uncertainty etc- After the first set of strikes,an offer to vote on was put on online..If you read my posts,I have confirmed that with the new twists my vote might change if a further ballot is made. I have considered the offer and exactly for the points you have highlighted (even though I know I will be at a loss anyway) I am not totally against it but as I said I with 80% of cc who are member of Bassa have voted YES,so I am trying to follow that. If people have voted YES and not took that vote seriously then it is them to blame. If they voted NO..and the majority should have been from the reports on this forum that everybody went into work, we would have not have this Industrial Action going on!


Time will tell.

[ns68]

If people have voted YES and not took that vote seriously then it is them to blame. If they voted NO..and the majority should have been from the reports on this forum that everybody went into work, we would have not have this Industrial Action going on!

I hope none of you on here have done that..expecially when you refer to strikers as the ruin of BA and how strong you feel about it all. Cancellations were made in light of a vote which was in favour and dates were set,not after seeing who went on strike or not. So everyone who voted YES should take their responsibility. What was it? 80% of crew? I don"t remember exactly the numbers.

[Caribbean Boy]

Bullying

ns68,

I make no apology for using the word bully. What other word can best describe the actions of a powerful union, with support from it's members, which attempt to force BA into giving almost everything which BASSA wants, including rescission of the penalties (like final written warnings, demotions and sackings) handed out to several cabin crew for harassment and bullying after a formal disciplinary procedure ?