British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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DJ remember we were nearly there with c£56M savings offered but still not good enough for even more talks.
It is Walsh who is jeopardising BA because of his stubborn nature throughout these talks - even a friend of mine in the BA IR team wonders what he might do next.
Walsh out now....savings implemented...staff tvl returned as before... and a close look at disciplinaries arising recently.
Its as simple as that.
It is Walsh who is jeopardising BA because of his stubborn nature throughout these talks - even a friend of mine in the BA IR team wonders what he might do next.
Walsh out now....savings implemented...staff tvl returned as before... and a close look at disciplinaries arising recently.
Its as simple as that.
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Dear Mr Walsh
For the sake of all our futures.
Let's get this sorry affair over with. The vast majority of your staff will fully support you when the time comes to .... SACK THEM.
Striking crew ... Note... This will not be long now
Let's get this sorry affair over with. The vast majority of your staff will fully support you when the time comes to .... SACK THEM.
Striking crew ... Note... This will not be long now
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With regard to the disciplinaries. If a union can decide it does not like the result of a disciplinary procedure, do they have the right to blackmail the company to achieve a change in the result. Is this not Industrial Bullying and Harrassment in itself? ie an attempt to force one's will upon another body? BASSA cannot bleat about a lack of democracy and then use bully boy tactics the next. How would BASSA and UNITE feel if another union decided that they would go on strike to overturn the result of a disciplinary hearing?
Disciplinary and grievance procedures have all been agreed with the unions well before the strike started. To decide you now don't like them does smack of a baby throwing his toys out of the cot.
Disciplinary and grievance procedures have all been agreed with the unions well before the strike started. To decide you now don't like them does smack of a baby throwing his toys out of the cot.
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Originally Posted by Juan Odeboyse
DJ remember we were nearly there with c£56M savings offered but still not good enough for even more talks.
This in my opinion is a big part of the problem, the Bassa mentality, not only are it's most militant supporters misinformed but completely uninformed
The most disheartening thing for me is these people are allow to vote on the various proposals without having a clue what they are actually voting for or against.
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Stop rehashing this "our savings were nearly good enough"
It was not enough
It was not permanent
Stop blaming WW
Savings have to be made by every department. EVERY department
Riga101 I hope you're right. How about we all chip in 100 quid as an unfair dismissal fund
It was not enough
It was not permanent
Stop blaming WW
Savings have to be made by every department. EVERY department
Riga101 I hope you're right. How about we all chip in 100 quid as an unfair dismissal fund
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APD
Juan and others
Apart from the BA losses, more worrying from the Daily Mail re APD..if APD rises again reinstatement of staff travel will pale into insignificance.
No airline, no job, no staff travel anyway.
Maybe Unite should concentrate on the bigger picture...saving jobs!!
Quote from Daily Mail...
Key Tory policies have been abandoned or watered down to finance the adoption of Nick Clegg's flagship policy to raise to £10,000 the starting point at which tax is paid.
. The document confirms the Tories have capitulated to Lib Dem demands to reform and raise air passenger duty - dubbed the 'poll tax of the skies'.
The tax will be switched 'from a per-passenger to a per plane duty' with the revenue raised going directly towards paying for the increase in tax thresholds.
The Institute for Fiscal Studies says the change would cost taxpayers an extra £3.3billion a year, more than doubling the amount of tax paid by airline passengers as airlines will simply pass on the new duty.
The Treasury raised just £2.4billion from the levy last year. But the change would see the tax paid by a family of four travelling long-haul economy soar from £220 to £522.
Brian Wilson, the former Energy Minister who chairs the pressure group Flying Matters, condemned the 'doubling taxation on aviation'.
He said: 'This is not a victimless offence but an absolutely crazy assault on one of Britain's most important industrial sectors.'
Ed Anderson, of the Airport Operators' Association, said: 'The APD rises will hurt ordinary hard-working people by not only making it harder for them to get away on holiday, but by slowing economic recovery and threatening jobs.'
Apart from the BA losses, more worrying from the Daily Mail re APD..if APD rises again reinstatement of staff travel will pale into insignificance.
No airline, no job, no staff travel anyway.
Maybe Unite should concentrate on the bigger picture...saving jobs!!
Quote from Daily Mail...
Key Tory policies have been abandoned or watered down to finance the adoption of Nick Clegg's flagship policy to raise to £10,000 the starting point at which tax is paid.
. The document confirms the Tories have capitulated to Lib Dem demands to reform and raise air passenger duty - dubbed the 'poll tax of the skies'.
The tax will be switched 'from a per-passenger to a per plane duty' with the revenue raised going directly towards paying for the increase in tax thresholds.
The Institute for Fiscal Studies says the change would cost taxpayers an extra £3.3billion a year, more than doubling the amount of tax paid by airline passengers as airlines will simply pass on the new duty.
The Treasury raised just £2.4billion from the levy last year. But the change would see the tax paid by a family of four travelling long-haul economy soar from £220 to £522.
Brian Wilson, the former Energy Minister who chairs the pressure group Flying Matters, condemned the 'doubling taxation on aviation'.
He said: 'This is not a victimless offence but an absolutely crazy assault on one of Britain's most important industrial sectors.'
Ed Anderson, of the Airport Operators' Association, said: 'The APD rises will hurt ordinary hard-working people by not only making it harder for them to get away on holiday, but by slowing economic recovery and threatening jobs.'
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The endgame approaches-we will wee what the strike response is.If the numbers of crew reporting steadily increases then the strike will be broken within a reasonably short time frame, and we will move towards a 100% flying programme without BASSA agreement and with imposition. If it continues then SOSR will become reality and a lot of cabin crew will be out on their ear by the autumn-replaced in short order by newfleet.
Regardless of the route, the result will be the same-the difference being that one route involves considerably less old fleet crew!
Regardless of the route, the result will be the same-the difference being that one route involves considerably less old fleet crew!
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SOSR
I believe Duncan protected his pension by resigning from BA before being sacked. Good financial advice.
I know that if you are sacked the only obligation the company has is to return your pension contributions.
How would other cabin crew fare if SOSR was implemented?
I know that if you are sacked the only obligation the company has is to return your pension contributions.
How would other cabin crew fare if SOSR was implemented?
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The references back to the 70s union style are spot on. Do you EVER hear chants like 'Walsh out Now' and that disgusting chant from the open topped bus (that was supposed to garner support from the City
) from staff at any other FTSE 100 company? Is this really the behaviour we expect from professionals?
This is all so unbelievably crazy and I hope that the MAJORITY of cabin crew, who I hope and believe are decent, sane individuals, will actually DO SOMETHING to stop this car crash of a strike.
I honestly cannot believe my eyes when I read some of the mindless comments and rhetoric. These are our livelihoods these people are playing with, it is all a game to them. As previously stated, Woodley, Simpson et al will all go back to their caves and enjoy their fine wines and beers, whilst some of us may end up with mortgages to pay and nothing to pay it with!
Disciplinaries: IT IS NOT EASY to dismiss people these days. Those who have been dismissed MUST have had a case proven against them (and if they did not they can sue for unfair dismissal, using their union....). It would be totally inappropriate for this to become part of the current negotiations and surely the vast majority of CC can see this?
) from staff at any other FTSE 100 company? Is this really the behaviour we expect from professionals? This is all so unbelievably crazy and I hope that the MAJORITY of cabin crew, who I hope and believe are decent, sane individuals, will actually DO SOMETHING to stop this car crash of a strike.
I honestly cannot believe my eyes when I read some of the mindless comments and rhetoric. These are our livelihoods these people are playing with, it is all a game to them. As previously stated, Woodley, Simpson et al will all go back to their caves and enjoy their fine wines and beers, whilst some of us may end up with mortgages to pay and nothing to pay it with!
Disciplinaries: IT IS NOT EASY to dismiss people these days. Those who have been dismissed MUST have had a case proven against them (and if they did not they can sue for unfair dismissal, using their union....). It would be totally inappropriate for this to become part of the current negotiations and surely the vast majority of CC can see this?
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Well didn't little William look like he was caught in the headlights on this mornings breakfast tv. The presenter had him on the ropes many a time with young William trying to explain about the bullying and harassment pity he wasn't asked about the bullying coming from his flightdeck community. So it's Bedfont on Monday then unless young William has a change of heart, something i very much doubt.
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This morning's 'operational update' sent down-route to all pilots and SCCMs stated that BA plan to fly 100% of 777 routes and 16 747 routes each day next week. I think the strike will collapse by the end of the next round. What is the point of withholding your labour if no-one notices?
Lets get this over with then.
Lets get this over with then.
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'little william'
Why is it 'watersidewonker' and others always have to use insulting, demeaning names when referring to Willie Walsh. Surley that just demonstrates immaturity and/or a lack of intelligent arguements or anything meaningful to actually say.
I saw him on the TV and he just looked frustrated - he always seems to get a harder time than the Union Officals by the BBC and I feel for him as he has to remain proffessional in his responses. What he needs to say, is what we all know. You cannot give in to the demands of this union as they firmly believe they run the airline and can challenge every decision that is made. Unless this is challenged and changed BA will continue to sink deeper and deeper while crew and unions get richer and richer"!!!
I saw him on the TV and he just looked frustrated - he always seems to get a harder time than the Union Officals by the BBC and I feel for him as he has to remain proffessional in his responses. What he needs to say, is what we all know. You cannot give in to the demands of this union as they firmly believe they run the airline and can challenge every decision that is made. Unless this is challenged and changed BA will continue to sink deeper and deeper while crew and unions get richer and richer"!!!
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Wonker
I assume you are not listening the the Investor Day presentations which are currently beng streamed. If the BASSA HQ was watching, I suspect they should be a little concerned.
"The implementation of new fleet can be done without the agreement of the Union, and is going ahead."
"Disfunctional relationship between one branch of Unite and the joint General Secretaries"
I assume you are not listening the the Investor Day presentations which are currently beng streamed. If the BASSA HQ was watching, I suspect they should be a little concerned.
"The implementation of new fleet can be done without the agreement of the Union, and is going ahead."
"Disfunctional relationship between one branch of Unite and the joint General Secretaries"
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Watersidewonker
I too didn't think it was a particularly good interview by Willie. However unlike those on top of a bus Willie is limited re commenting on current disciplinaries by legal constraints.I don't think he wriggled, just couldn't say anything to poor questions.
As to your comments re flightdeck, words fail me. Don't blame everybody else, lets find a way forward. You need to be in step with the rest of BA employees, not a little faction completely out on your own. You are fighting every other employee in BA not just the management.
Oh by the way don't tell me you are fighting for all employees, If you were you wouldn't be so isolated.
As to your comments re flightdeck, words fail me. Don't blame everybody else, lets find a way forward. You need to be in step with the rest of BA employees, not a little faction completely out on your own. You are fighting every other employee in BA not just the management.
Oh by the way don't tell me you are fighting for all employees, If you were you wouldn't be so isolated.
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So Wonker, it's okay then for loading teams to be reduced from 6 to 4, for pilots to take a 5% permanent pay cut and for engineers to increase their productivity but CSDs should not ever have to push a trolley - even for £60,000!
The BASSAmentalist's scorched earth tactics are threatening all of our jobs, whilst their purile best is "I'd rather shag a loader than a scab". Good luck at the job centre!
The BASSAmentalist's scorched earth tactics are threatening all of our jobs, whilst their purile best is "I'd rather shag a loader than a scab". Good luck at the job centre!
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www
your smarmy and personal attacks on willy walsh demonstrate that you have no argument left to present-you have lost. Your members know it, all other employee groups in BA know it, the shareholders know it-and the public know it. you have run out of sympathy from all quarters.
BASSA have resolutely failed to negotiate over a period of 15 months.
Newfleet will happen with or without existing crew being part of the mix.
The current offer being proposed by BA should be put to the membership of BASSA in a free and secret ballot-that won't happen because your union knows that it would be accepted with an overwhelming majority.
As for your tripe about bullying and harassment in the work place-you know as well as anybody that ALL incidents of alleged b+h are dealt with impartially and by a recognised corporate procedure. BA is a responsible employer and in my experience has always taken ANY allegation-no matter from which quarter-very seriously.
your smarmy and personal attacks on willy walsh demonstrate that you have no argument left to present-you have lost. Your members know it, all other employee groups in BA know it, the shareholders know it-and the public know it. you have run out of sympathy from all quarters.
BASSA have resolutely failed to negotiate over a period of 15 months.
Newfleet will happen with or without existing crew being part of the mix.
The current offer being proposed by BA should be put to the membership of BASSA in a free and secret ballot-that won't happen because your union knows that it would be accepted with an overwhelming majority.
As for your tripe about bullying and harassment in the work place-you know as well as anybody that ALL incidents of alleged b+h are dealt with impartially and by a recognised corporate procedure. BA is a responsible employer and in my experience has always taken ANY allegation-no matter from which quarter-very seriously.
What the union doesn't seem to realise is that Willie has nothing to lose. HIS pension and severance packacge will be well stitched up and foolproof, much like Fred the Shred.
Other carriers will gladly take up the slack when BA are no more. With the amount of money being lost already as a result of normal operations, the strikes (no doubt that they will continue) will just about finish her off.
Doc C
Other carriers will gladly take up the slack when BA are no more. With the amount of money being lost already as a result of normal operations, the strikes (no doubt that they will continue) will just about finish her off.
Doc C
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aaa WW had plenty of time to answer but as his usual way he just waffled on and when brought back to planet Earth seemed shocked that HE had been interrupted.
An excellent interviewer me thinks.
An excellent interviewer me thinks.
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Given that all the Bedfont ‘intelligentsia’ despise this company so much, then they should do the honourable thing – and leave.
This would save all of us from having to put up with their empty twoddle in the galley – and perhaps those of us committed to BA could, with the help of enthusiastic new blood, start to rebuild our shredded reputation which these numbskulls (sorry mod, I can’t think of another word) will have left in their wake.
Those people who chose to support BA through this debacle by working normally, or volunteering, should do so with heads held high, for they/we are doing ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT THING. If ever confirmation was needed, look no further than the deplorable and degrading behaviour portrayed by our ‘colleagues’ for all the world to see on television yesterday. Utterly shameful.
This would save all of us from having to put up with their empty twoddle in the galley – and perhaps those of us committed to BA could, with the help of enthusiastic new blood, start to rebuild our shredded reputation which these numbskulls (sorry mod, I can’t think of another word) will have left in their wake.
Those people who chose to support BA through this debacle by working normally, or volunteering, should do so with heads held high, for they/we are doing ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT THING. If ever confirmation was needed, look no further than the deplorable and degrading behaviour portrayed by our ‘colleagues’ for all the world to see on television yesterday. Utterly shameful.
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It is clear from Willie Walsh's interview on Sky that if Unite don't get BASSA under control then Walsh will simply just sideline the the BASSAmentalists. New fleet recruitment will now be starting. The militants can just stay at home. We don't want you and we don't need you in the new BA.