British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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It is interesting to see how quickly a complete BASSA lie becomes the truth because it has been posted on the BASSA forum by a rep.
I am convinced that eventually this union will be used as a case study in brainwashing on some psychology course somewhere. How do they do it?
I am convinced that eventually this union will be used as a case study in brainwashing on some psychology course somewhere. How do they do it?
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What BASSA refuse to accept is that if an agreement is untenable, it will be ignored or worked around. Intelligent negotiation would mean the effects of giving up these agreements could be mitigated.
If this reality dawned on the reps they may start meaningful talks. How can they be convinced?
If this reality dawned on the reps they may start meaningful talks. How can they be convinced?
The "pilot withdrawl" story is the invention of a poisoned mind.
At best the BASSA Rep misunderstood BALPA's stance on the use of pilot volunteers on recent recovery flights to/from the Far East..I know BALPA have contacted BASSA over this and if it was a misunderstanding I'm sure BASSA will be issuing a correction
At worse some of the BASSA Reps are carrying out a scorched Earth policy, hoping to leave the working relationship between Flight Crew and Cabin Crew completely in tatters before the door slams behind them.
I know which explanation I think is the most likely...
Last edited by wiggy; 26th Apr 2010 at 09:42.
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So, first Engineering was 'accused' by BASSA (something said about BA aircrafts being poorly maintained etc etc, remember ??? Yes, yes UNITE have apologized for the kerfarfel but then again, what is said cannot be 'unsaid', right??) and now its the turn of the Pilots ...... hmmmmmmmmm who next, BASSA ? Icelandic volcanoes? Ground staff ? Baggage handlers and cargo loaders ? Airport Authorities and the CAA ????
And I thought the 'divide and conquer' tactic is only adopted by management types all over the world but it seems BASSA is assisting them now !!! Way to go, BASSA!!!
And I thought the 'divide and conquer' tactic is only adopted by management types all over the world but it seems BASSA is assisting them now !!! Way to go, BASSA!!!
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As FD (not BA) I wonder how the legalities are of publishing untruths that can and probably will damage relationships between different staff sections? Would it be considered libel for instance?
I mean, even unions cannot be above the law, can they?
I mean, even unions cannot be above the law, can they?
S76Heavy
wonder how the legalities are of publishing untruths that can and probably will damage relationships between different staff sections? Would it be considered libel for instance?
I mean, even unions cannot be above the law, can they?
I mean, even unions cannot be above the law, can they?
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Long time reader , first time poster ! 
The Rep concerned is highly respected and is very well loved by Bassa members , he has always been forthright and honest in both his postings and Emails , i trust him , i believe him and perhaps you flyboys need to ask yourselves if you are the ones being lied to ... because a senior rep , backed by an undisclosed senior manager says you are ... maybe just think about it before you dimiss it outright !! Cheers
The Rep concerned is highly respected and is very well loved by Bassa members , he has always been forthright and honest in both his postings and Emails , i trust him , i believe him and perhaps you flyboys need to ask yourselves if you are the ones being lied to ... because a senior rep , backed by an undisclosed senior manager says you are ... maybe just think about it before you dimiss it outright !! Cheers
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Sadly Duncan has been caught telling porkies many times before, and not just about us. Remember how only 26 crew reported for duty on the first day of the strike? How about he names his undisclosed manager, instead of saying "somebody told me but I'm not telling you who" like a 5 year old spreading tales.
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As I understand the situation, Mr H has his disciplinary with the company later this week, for whatever he has been accused of.
A cynic might just suggest that his latest set of unproven allegations are the last throw of the dice from someone who just wants to queer the pitch / stir up as much unrest as possible before he is managed out of the business.
I would put it at no better than evens that he will be a BA employee when this is done and dusted, and frankly the company will be all the better for his type being let go.
If it happens though, what is the bet the McClunky will find him a nice little earner at Unite.
A cynic might just suggest that his latest set of unproven allegations are the last throw of the dice from someone who just wants to queer the pitch / stir up as much unrest as possible before he is managed out of the business.
I would put it at no better than evens that he will be a BA employee when this is done and dusted, and frankly the company will be all the better for his type being let go.
If it happens though, what is the bet the McClunky will find him a nice little earner at Unite.
because a senior rep , backed by an undisclosed senior manager says you are ...
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MissM
Few pilots were used during the last strike and many volunteers were stood down because enough cabin crew turned up for duty. That's if you belive what's being said.
In such case WW shouldn't need to worry about the pilots threatening to withdraw their services if staff travel is reinstated.
In such case WW shouldn't need to worry about the pilots threatening to withdraw their services if staff travel is reinstated.
Weopen X
because a senior rep , backed by an undisclosed senior manager says you are
Perhaps he could name the Pilot VCC spokesperson (there isn't one)
Mr Holly has been caught in too many lies for anyone with half a brain to believe that this is anything other than as described in TopBunks post above
A cynic might just suggest that his latest set of unproven allegations are the last throw of the dice from someone who just wants to queer the pitch / stir up as much unrest as possible before he is managed out of the business.
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Lightbulbs
Re Profits:
The important thing here is not the number of years BA makes a profit as opposed to a loss, but THE AMOUNT OF PROFIT.
It's generally accepted in business, that less than 10% profit on turnover is a poor result. Significantly that has been BA's profits target for triggering staff bonuses in recent years.
How many times in the last 10 years has BA ,managed this?
Once.
The reason BA HAS to make this amount of profit and more, is, as mentioned by other people, aircraft renewal, pensions deficit, product refreshes. You tell me, do YOU think any of these issued DON'T need addressing?
Re Profits:
The important thing here is not the number of years BA makes a profit as opposed to a loss, but THE AMOUNT OF PROFIT.
It's generally accepted in business, that less than 10% profit on turnover is a poor result. Significantly that has been BA's profits target for triggering staff bonuses in recent years.
How many times in the last 10 years has BA ,managed this?
Once.
The reason BA HAS to make this amount of profit and more, is, as mentioned by other people, aircraft renewal, pensions deficit, product refreshes. You tell me, do YOU think any of these issued DON'T need addressing?
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So, are you saying that this message from Duncan is wrong because it is untrue that the pilots who have been supporting the BBA initiative and volunteering as cabin crew would not withdraw that support if ST was restored?
Or is it only wrong, because there is no official spokesman for this gang, and therefore, nobody can voice their point of view?
Isn't this attitude a least half implied by the posts on here talking about Willy needing to keep/reward the loyalty of his volunteers by not returning staff travel to cabin crew?
No pilots seem to be posting to say that it can't be true because they are voluneers but do not hold this opinion.
If you're genuinely concerned about the deterioration in the relationship between pilots and the "other half of the airborne team", then perhaps those few pilots that have been loudly boasting about how easy it's going to be get staff travel seats now cabin crew are out of the picture should be advised to speak a little more quietly?
I find it increasingly difficult to convince anyone in the cabin that not all pilots feel little but contempt for cabin crew, that many of them are motivated in their actions by genuine principal and not a vindictive enjoyment of others' losses.
You may imagine that this view will change as soon as BA has sacked enough crew...but I'm afraid it will become worse. I wish the only problem was what BASSA reps say - a lot of responsibility lies with what pilots say and do. Brainwashing, was mentiond...but few people actually would give credance to this if it clashed with their everyday experiences.
Eddy, the volunteers are being sent out on regular flights, not just 'rescue flights'. In fact, it sounds like everything went out one down or with two voluneers instead of real crew.
S76Heavy, Duncan posting his personal opinion on our website is unlikely to be more libelous than people posting on here that they think he is a liar and a trouble maker who should be sacked....is it?
Or is it only wrong, because there is no official spokesman for this gang, and therefore, nobody can voice their point of view?
Isn't this attitude a least half implied by the posts on here talking about Willy needing to keep/reward the loyalty of his volunteers by not returning staff travel to cabin crew?
No pilots seem to be posting to say that it can't be true because they are voluneers but do not hold this opinion.
If you're genuinely concerned about the deterioration in the relationship between pilots and the "other half of the airborne team", then perhaps those few pilots that have been loudly boasting about how easy it's going to be get staff travel seats now cabin crew are out of the picture should be advised to speak a little more quietly?
I find it increasingly difficult to convince anyone in the cabin that not all pilots feel little but contempt for cabin crew, that many of them are motivated in their actions by genuine principal and not a vindictive enjoyment of others' losses.
You may imagine that this view will change as soon as BA has sacked enough crew...but I'm afraid it will become worse. I wish the only problem was what BASSA reps say - a lot of responsibility lies with what pilots say and do. Brainwashing, was mentiond...but few people actually would give credance to this if it clashed with their everyday experiences.
Eddy, the volunteers are being sent out on regular flights, not just 'rescue flights'. In fact, it sounds like everything went out one down or with two voluneers instead of real crew.
S76Heavy, Duncan posting his personal opinion on our website is unlikely to be more libelous than people posting on here that they think he is a liar and a trouble maker who should be sacked....is it?
Junior trash
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Reargunner, can you explain then the logical disconnect in what is said.
Why on earth would Willy care what the VCCs think? If staff travel is part of a settlement he has no need for VCCs anyway, surely?
Is there a secret cabal of pilots meeting Willy nightly to update him on opinion in the ranks? We should be told. Is there a book depository involved or are some people in BASSA just going a bit nutty?
Why on earth would Willy care what the VCCs think? If staff travel is part of a settlement he has no need for VCCs anyway, surely?
Is there a secret cabal of pilots meeting Willy nightly to update him on opinion in the ranks? We should be told. Is there a book depository involved or are some people in BASSA just going a bit nutty?
Last edited by Hotel Mode; 27th Apr 2010 at 09:28.
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Regarding Duncan's '100% true, not gossip' statement:
Duncan needs to wake-up and realise that just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them your enemy. Or maybe he lost sight of reality along time ago when things stopped going his way.
the pilots have told Walsh they will "withdraw all co-operation" (ie assist in any further strike breaking) if BA fully reinstates our staff travel.
- BALPA has remained neutral in this dispute (like BASSA did during OpenSkies issues) and left the decision to volunteer to the individual. A senior BALPA rep who did volunteer stood down and will not be re-instated as a Rep just to demonstrate that there is neutrality. I understand that other Unite branches followed a similar route.
- It is in BALPA's interest for CC to have ST re-instated. Reason: if BALPA ever call future strike action and a CEO were to remove ST then we would obviously want it back for the same reasons as CC do now - derrrrr!
- BALPA's BA Chairman has publicly stated that Duncan's comments are untrue. If the BACC Chairman was lying, he would be extremely foolish as he if he were ever found out he would face de-selection or possibly legal action. He's not the foolish type and does not have a track record of mis-statements. Others might tell you that the sky was green and the grass blue if it thought it would further their personal crusade.
Duncan needs to wake-up and realise that just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them your enemy. Or maybe he lost sight of reality along time ago when things stopped going his way.
It's free choice to listen to every viewpoint but it's an active decision to choose what you believe.
Reargunner
I have never heard such a suggestion from ANY pilot. The chairman of the BA section of BALPA has refuted the whole suggestion strongly and also complained to miss lala herself.
I believe very strongly that WW has been a man of his word throughout this long running debacle. He stated categorically on numerous occasions that strikers would lose their ST for ever!
Sorry if it offends, but I did my bit to keep BA solvent and I EXPECT WW to keep his word and ensure that strikers do not get ST back. This is not from a position of being vindictive, but I believe that it would send out the completely wrong message to those of us who volunteered to keep OUR company going - including numerous members of unite – if he went back on his word and ‘rewarded the very people who were happy to put the rest of us on the dole.
I am sorry if some of my colleagues have upset those of a gentle disposition who were willing to see me and my family out of work and losing all that I have worked for. I believe that these comments will have been said in jest – poor taste – but jest none the less.
The ONLY people that seem to think pilots have contempt for cabin crew are these vindictive, lying trouble-makers who have been doing their best to stir up trouble for many, many years. The vast majority of pilots hold cabin crew in very good regard. The vast majority of cabin crew are a delight to fly with and also to socialise with. However, the rotten apples are indeed rotten and are intent on trying to blame everybody else – except the lying leaders of bassa. Flight crew are an easy target for these people because if enough people say something is true, then people will gradually believe it is – even if it is a total pack of lies.
You talk about BA sacking crew as if that is their aim. BA is certainly not my first employer, but it is certainly the best employer that I have worked for. The suspended crew will be given a fair hearing, but some of the incidents that they are alleged to have been involved in require sacking as the final sanction.
Brainwashing – that would be the bassa complaint of passing on verifiable information rather than so many of the outright lies peddled from bassaland.
On the subject of telling numerous lies – your man duncan just cannot stop. There are numerous pilots clamouring for BALPA to take a much more robust line against his poison.
I have never heard such a suggestion from ANY pilot. The chairman of the BA section of BALPA has refuted the whole suggestion strongly and also complained to miss lala herself.
I believe very strongly that WW has been a man of his word throughout this long running debacle. He stated categorically on numerous occasions that strikers would lose their ST for ever!
Sorry if it offends, but I did my bit to keep BA solvent and I EXPECT WW to keep his word and ensure that strikers do not get ST back. This is not from a position of being vindictive, but I believe that it would send out the completely wrong message to those of us who volunteered to keep OUR company going - including numerous members of unite – if he went back on his word and ‘rewarded the very people who were happy to put the rest of us on the dole.
I am sorry if some of my colleagues have upset those of a gentle disposition who were willing to see me and my family out of work and losing all that I have worked for. I believe that these comments will have been said in jest – poor taste – but jest none the less.
The ONLY people that seem to think pilots have contempt for cabin crew are these vindictive, lying trouble-makers who have been doing their best to stir up trouble for many, many years. The vast majority of pilots hold cabin crew in very good regard. The vast majority of cabin crew are a delight to fly with and also to socialise with. However, the rotten apples are indeed rotten and are intent on trying to blame everybody else – except the lying leaders of bassa. Flight crew are an easy target for these people because if enough people say something is true, then people will gradually believe it is – even if it is a total pack of lies.
You talk about BA sacking crew as if that is their aim. BA is certainly not my first employer, but it is certainly the best employer that I have worked for. The suspended crew will be given a fair hearing, but some of the incidents that they are alleged to have been involved in require sacking as the final sanction.
Brainwashing – that would be the bassa complaint of passing on verifiable information rather than so many of the outright lies peddled from bassaland.
On the subject of telling numerous lies – your man duncan just cannot stop. There are numerous pilots clamouring for BALPA to take a much more robust line against his poison.
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I guess if you have numerous XXXX days to fil......
On the subject of Duncan and his version of the truth, I seem to remember hearing him on Radio 5 telling the world that pilots were being paid £500 overtime to train as cabin crew. Another lie peddled that had to be backtracked on. Having been pointed in the direction of BALPAs lawyers Duncan is now backtracking on the claim that BALPA are involved in blocking the return of staff travel (but still sticking to the idea that it's a mysterious bogeyman who was once a BALPA rep who is orchestrating the whole thing), and he was only told this by a mate who was told it by a senior manager at Waterside, who's clearly in the business of divulging BA's negotiating secrets and tactics to the friends of BASSA reps. It's laughable, even if only for the fact that it suggests Unite have got WW and BF to shred their own credibility and consider giving any staff travel back to strikers.
On the subject of Duncan and his version of the truth, I seem to remember hearing him on Radio 5 telling the world that pilots were being paid £500 overtime to train as cabin crew. Another lie peddled that had to be backtracked on. Having been pointed in the direction of BALPAs lawyers Duncan is now backtracking on the claim that BALPA are involved in blocking the return of staff travel (but still sticking to the idea that it's a mysterious bogeyman who was once a BALPA rep who is orchestrating the whole thing), and he was only told this by a mate who was told it by a senior manager at Waterside, who's clearly in the business of divulging BA's negotiating secrets and tactics to the friends of BASSA reps. It's laughable, even if only for the fact that it suggests Unite have got WW and BF to shred their own credibility and consider giving any staff travel back to strikers.