British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: nowhere near here
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think therein lies much of the problem - take for example the management of say BA Pilots - that group have a stable long-term management in place.
Cabin Crew have a leadership team that seems to change on a whim, with no stability, no long-term partnership building and no time to build a trusting relationship
Cabin Crew have a leadership team that seems to change on a whim, with no stability, no long-term partnership building and no time to build a trusting relationship
learly BA can continue a reasonable operation indefinitely. And considering that most money is made from very few routes it is probable that we can stay in business for some considerable time.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What to do this Saturday
1st Class,
A quick reminder of how things stand, regarding your fears.
My advice to you, should you do the brave thing and report for work, is as follows.
Crew Car Park
There are no pickets in the vicinity so you do not have to worry about being 'seen'. If you really wish to remain incognito, then you could wear civvies and put your uniform in your suitcase. I would suggest you remove your ID and name badge and put it on when you get on the bus if your fears are too overwhelming, but again, this really isn't necessary.
Bus
The bus has frosted windows, so again any fear of being identified is removed.
CRC
You will have your ID checked when you arrive at the CRC. Once inside I guarantee you will feel a weight off your mind when you see that there are hundreds of like minded crew there too. Swipe in, in the knowledge that everyone is there to support you. You are standing for what you believe in and should be commended.
The Future
My only hope is that the thousands of crew like you, are honoured for your bravery within BA. It was very moving to be witness to it last Saturday and I'm sure you will find it an emotional experience yourself!
A quick reminder of how things stand, regarding your fears.
My advice to you, should you do the brave thing and report for work, is as follows.
Crew Car Park
There are no pickets in the vicinity so you do not have to worry about being 'seen'. If you really wish to remain incognito, then you could wear civvies and put your uniform in your suitcase. I would suggest you remove your ID and name badge and put it on when you get on the bus if your fears are too overwhelming, but again, this really isn't necessary.
Bus
The bus has frosted windows, so again any fear of being identified is removed.
CRC
You will have your ID checked when you arrive at the CRC. Once inside I guarantee you will feel a weight off your mind when you see that there are hundreds of like minded crew there too. Swipe in, in the knowledge that everyone is there to support you. You are standing for what you believe in and should be commended.
The Future
My only hope is that the thousands of crew like you, are honoured for your bravery within BA. It was very moving to be witness to it last Saturday and I'm sure you will find it an emotional experience yourself!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LGW
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Leadership Team
bacabincrewboy suggested:
Have got to agree with that statement
Every few years an "exciting" new management structure is launched to manage the workforce or should I say "customers"
I thought that the "Fleet Director" plan was perhaps a good option, managed by your own people who knew the job, problems therein etc but that was superceded by subsequent "exciting" new structures borne out of "blue sky thinking from the same hymn sheet run up the flagpole to see who grasped the helicopter view". It has to be said that the crew that were elevated to Fleet Director seemed to become very burdened with the role and the associated responsibilities and it was not a huge success.
I have concluded that Cabin Crew are not particularly easy to manage and none of the recent initiatives to date have come close to addressing the issues.
Cabin Crew have a leadership team that seems to change on a whim, with no stability, no long-term partnership building and no time to build a trusting relationship
Every few years an "exciting" new management structure is launched to manage the workforce or should I say "customers"
I thought that the "Fleet Director" plan was perhaps a good option, managed by your own people who knew the job, problems therein etc but that was superceded by subsequent "exciting" new structures borne out of "blue sky thinking from the same hymn sheet run up the flagpole to see who grasped the helicopter view". It has to be said that the crew that were elevated to Fleet Director seemed to become very burdened with the role and the associated responsibilities and it was not a huge success.
I have concluded that Cabin Crew are not particularly easy to manage and none of the recent initiatives to date have come close to addressing the issues.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Out and About
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ 1st Class
I worked on the first (and indeed, all) strike days.
My posting #3523 on Page 177 of the "British Airways - CC Industrial Relations MkVI" thread might help you, and others in a similar mind, decide what to do.
I've also just spoken to Ops and will be working on all of the next strike days.
If you do come in to work, it'll feel weird, but it's a good weird
http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/404...mk-vi-177.html
My posting #3523 on Page 177 of the "British Airways - CC Industrial Relations MkVI" thread might help you, and others in a similar mind, decide what to do.
I've also just spoken to Ops and will be working on all of the next strike days.
If you do come in to work, it'll feel weird, but it's a good weird
http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/404...mk-vi-177.html
Last edited by TorC; 24th Mar 2010 at 12:35. Reason: added link to original post
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Juan,
thanks for your reply, (I assume it was to my post), but you didn't answer any of my questions. I know there are many like me, enduring the consequences of BASSA's action eager for your reply to them.
I don't dispute that CC management is variable at best, but surely that is for the post-strike analysis don't you think? What I am keen to know now is what BASSA hope to achieve with their present stance. Or, would I be right in assuming they intend to achieve the reformation of CC management by prolonging their action?
I am genuinely keen to hear another plausible point of view here.
Many thanks,
BUG
thanks for your reply, (I assume it was to my post), but you didn't answer any of my questions. I know there are many like me, enduring the consequences of BASSA's action eager for your reply to them.
I don't dispute that CC management is variable at best, but surely that is for the post-strike analysis don't you think? What I am keen to know now is what BASSA hope to achieve with their present stance. Or, would I be right in assuming they intend to achieve the reformation of CC management by prolonging their action?
I am genuinely keen to hear another plausible point of view here.
Many thanks,
BUG
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Overflare
Quote....Perhaps the answer is for cabin crew to be managed by the flight operations department, as I understand is the arrangement in almost every other airline in the world.
Thats how it used to be .....
Thats how it used to be .....
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Skimming the very edge of heaven
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To go in or not to go in
Hi 1st Class,
I sympathise completely with your apprehensions about going to work at the weekend, but I suspect thinking about it will be worse than doing it. I was on the crew car park bus on Sunday last and didn't see any Crew anywhere near the car park or on the way to the CRC. I suspect if you were going in early when some of the long haul crews were returning it would be a little different. There were about half a dozen people in tabards there as well to make sure everyone was alright. In the CRC itself there was a really good atmosphere. Once you are inside, it's a lot better. I really had a lot of respect for everyone there.
I met a friend of mine who commutes. He explained that his wife had just lost her job and he really couldn't afford to lose his staff travel or he would probably have to resign. At the same time he was sorry that he couldn't support his colleagues, even though he thought the strike was misguided.
There are many I suspect with these sorts of dilemmas.
The fact is that, as a CSD I flew with recently said, "Everyone has to make the decision for themselves".
One thing you can be sure of though, is that you will not be the only one, no matter what decision you make, that will lose sleep over whether to go in or not.
Good luck
I sympathise completely with your apprehensions about going to work at the weekend, but I suspect thinking about it will be worse than doing it. I was on the crew car park bus on Sunday last and didn't see any Crew anywhere near the car park or on the way to the CRC. I suspect if you were going in early when some of the long haul crews were returning it would be a little different. There were about half a dozen people in tabards there as well to make sure everyone was alright. In the CRC itself there was a really good atmosphere. Once you are inside, it's a lot better. I really had a lot of respect for everyone there.
I met a friend of mine who commutes. He explained that his wife had just lost her job and he really couldn't afford to lose his staff travel or he would probably have to resign. At the same time he was sorry that he couldn't support his colleagues, even though he thought the strike was misguided.
There are many I suspect with these sorts of dilemmas.
The fact is that, as a CSD I flew with recently said, "Everyone has to make the decision for themselves".
One thing you can be sure of though, is that you will not be the only one, no matter what decision you make, that will lose sleep over whether to go in or not.
Good luck
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats how it used to be .....
About time too.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LGW
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IFCE into Flight Ops?
You can create any kind of management structure you wish, put IFCE into Flight Ops and create a Head of Cabin Service reporting to Chief Pilot but that still doesn't answer, or address in the slightest, the question of how best to actually manage 12000+ cabin crew on a daily basis.
The issue is not management structures but creating a framework that makes the crew member feel able to engage and work with their immediate manager.
This may appear off topic but it is perhaps one component of why Cabin Crew turn first to their Union and not to their immediate Manager when work issues are encountered.
The issue is not management structures but creating a framework that makes the crew member feel able to engage and work with their immediate manager.
This may appear off topic but it is perhaps one component of why Cabin Crew turn first to their Union and not to their immediate Manager when work issues are encountered.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks
Thank you all for your replies. I know in my heart that I'll be going to work on Saturday so thanks for putting my mind at rest. I just hope I don't panic at the last min but I'm sure once I drive in I will be fine. I'll let you know how I get on and what it is like in there. I bet it is very strange in there but as a lot of posts before mine say, it will be nice not to have the anti-ba talk all day.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BUG
What I am keen to know now is what BASSA hope to achieve with their present stance
As to what they hope to achieve, I do not believe that even BASSA knows that.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Juan Tugoh
He and some other VCC reported for a trip during the strike which was the first half of a Back to Back. There were some members of the crew that were regular CC. They were concerned that for the second half of the trip they would be rostered to fly with strikers. The prospect of this was causing serious misgivings amongst the regular crew. A CC manager was contacted by the CSD with regard to the situation. The CC manager stated that there were no guarantees and that they may well be operating with strikers. The CC were very peturbed about this and were of a mind not to operate, the manager said they would be treated as strikers if they took this action.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: surrey
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another view
here's what seems to be a pretty intelligent view of the issues. It comes from a blog by robert peston the BBC business editor.
BBC Blog Network
Bottom line is that BA have loads of money, and WW is driving cost out of the business (in the writers view needlessly)
you need to read the posts in reverse order
BBC Blog Network
Bottom line is that BA have loads of money, and WW is driving cost out of the business (in the writers view needlessly)
you need to read the posts in reverse order
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RZW30
I am sorry but that Blog is just peddling the same stuff which has led our poor crew down this route. Most of it is highly inaccurate - 40% off salaries (utter rubbish, unless he goes to Tokyo or SIN 4 times a month), BA has resolved the pension problem (ha ha) , BA made money is the last quarter (after the changes were agreed/imposed!), share price doubled (because problems are being addressed), slashed numbers (by voluntary redundancy and part time, no compulsory). I could bore you all day about it but all it demonstrates is that cabin crew need to understand the facts before choosing to strike. And either BASSA don't understand it also, or is unwilling to changes for reasons known only to those at the top (mainly old contracts CSDs and Pursers).
Robert Peston did not write it. It is simply a contributor to the blog.
I am sorry but that Blog is just peddling the same stuff which has led our poor crew down this route. Most of it is highly inaccurate - 40% off salaries (utter rubbish, unless he goes to Tokyo or SIN 4 times a month), BA has resolved the pension problem (ha ha) , BA made money is the last quarter (after the changes were agreed/imposed!), share price doubled (because problems are being addressed), slashed numbers (by voluntary redundancy and part time, no compulsory). I could bore you all day about it but all it demonstrates is that cabin crew need to understand the facts before choosing to strike. And either BASSA don't understand it also, or is unwilling to changes for reasons known only to those at the top (mainly old contracts CSDs and Pursers).
Robert Peston did not write it. It is simply a contributor to the blog.
Last edited by Nevermind; 24th Mar 2010 at 14:30.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I really do not understand what is the concern that volunteers have with working the second half of a back to back with strikers. ? If you are 'backing ba' and you believe what you are doing is the right thing, what on earth do you have to hide?
I am 100% sure there will be no bullying and harassment on board, as most flight crew on here have said categorically, it will not be tolerated.
By all means go to work, if you believe that to be the correct thing to do, but do not be so weak that you do not have the courage of your convictions. Stand up and be counted.
I was on strike this weekend and will be next weekend. I stood on the picket line, i have lost staff travel and wages and perfectly prepared to do so, to stand up for what i believe in.
Why are such people not prepared to stand up for what they believe in?
Or is it that they don't believe in what they are doing, and are just a bunch of selfish, self-serving people who know in their hearts what they are doing is wrong.?
Maybe this is why most strikers despise these people, they have neither honesty, nor transparency, nor courage of their convictions, but are merely hiding in the shadows, in civvies, blacked out buses, name badges off. etc etc etc..
I know that i may be down in wages but I certainly have the moral high ground. The first one of the 'volunteers' to name themselves to me has my displeasure but also has my respect.
I am 100% sure there will be no bullying and harassment on board, as most flight crew on here have said categorically, it will not be tolerated.
By all means go to work, if you believe that to be the correct thing to do, but do not be so weak that you do not have the courage of your convictions. Stand up and be counted.
I was on strike this weekend and will be next weekend. I stood on the picket line, i have lost staff travel and wages and perfectly prepared to do so, to stand up for what i believe in.
Why are such people not prepared to stand up for what they believe in?
Or is it that they don't believe in what they are doing, and are just a bunch of selfish, self-serving people who know in their hearts what they are doing is wrong.?
Maybe this is why most strikers despise these people, they have neither honesty, nor transparency, nor courage of their convictions, but are merely hiding in the shadows, in civvies, blacked out buses, name badges off. etc etc etc..
I know that i may be down in wages but I certainly have the moral high ground. The first one of the 'volunteers' to name themselves to me has my displeasure but also has my respect.
Link to the interesting discussion between an Employment Lawyer and two CSD's approx 1:08 into the program
Draw your own conclusions
BBC iPlayer Console - Victoria Derbyshire: 24/03/2010
Draw your own conclusions
BBC iPlayer Console - Victoria Derbyshire: 24/03/2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keirhardie
The moral high ground? After that contribution I very much doubt it.
I stood on the picket line, i have lost staff travel and wages and perfectly prepared to do so, to stand up for what i believe in.
Why are such people not prepared to stand up for what they believe in?
Or is it that they don't believe in what they are doing, and are just a bunch of selfish, self-serving people who know in their hearts what they are doing is wrong.?
If you are prepared to stand up for what you believe in, know the facts first.
They know in their hearts that they may have to work along individuals who seem to feel that, through being misinformed, they are doing the right thing.
Your posting suggests that your feelings on board may not be helpful to working as a team. You may like to consider that when you come on board our aircraft.
[edited to take out inflammatory words]
The moral high ground? After that contribution I very much doubt it.
I stood on the picket line, i have lost staff travel and wages and perfectly prepared to do so, to stand up for what i believe in.
Why are such people not prepared to stand up for what they believe in?
Or is it that they don't believe in what they are doing, and are just a bunch of selfish, self-serving people who know in their hearts what they are doing is wrong.?
If you are prepared to stand up for what you believe in, know the facts first.
They know in their hearts that they may have to work along individuals who seem to feel that, through being misinformed, they are doing the right thing.
Your posting suggests that your feelings on board may not be helpful to working as a team. You may like to consider that when you come on board our aircraft.
[edited to take out inflammatory words]
Last edited by Nevermind; 24th Mar 2010 at 15:52.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why on earth are you writing such a vitriolic post nevermind? I asked a question, hopefully someone with more manners than yourself will reply.
I most certainly do have the moral high ground and I do not need to think at all about going on an aircraft, with your attitude perhaps you do?
Oh and whilst on the subject, I am most certainly not misinformed, and in fact have forgotten more about trade unionism than most people will ever know. I am exceptionally well informed and made just that an informed decision to strike.
The reason I have the moral high ground is that I have the courage of my convictions and do not hide in shadows.
I most certainly do have the moral high ground and I do not need to think at all about going on an aircraft, with your attitude perhaps you do?
Oh and whilst on the subject, I am most certainly not misinformed, and in fact have forgotten more about trade unionism than most people will ever know. I am exceptionally well informed and made just that an informed decision to strike.
The reason I have the moral high ground is that I have the courage of my convictions and do not hide in shadows.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London uk
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Everyone ,
I am a newbie on here . I worked all of the last 3 days strike and I am in again for the next 4 days . I have to say that I have never felt such a great atmosphere in the CRC . I was truely over whelmed by the amount of colleagues there and the support , a real team spirit . It was fantastic to be able to speak to like minded crew , with not a hint of the militant aggression .
I am looking forward to being surrounded by my colleagues this weekend who want to keep the flag flying when airlines are failing around us . On day 1 people were standing as there were no seats it was so packed ...
it was incredible .
I am a newbie on here . I worked all of the last 3 days strike and I am in again for the next 4 days . I have to say that I have never felt such a great atmosphere in the CRC . I was truely over whelmed by the amount of colleagues there and the support , a real team spirit . It was fantastic to be able to speak to like minded crew , with not a hint of the militant aggression .
I am looking forward to being surrounded by my colleagues this weekend who want to keep the flag flying when airlines are failing around us . On day 1 people were standing as there were no seats it was so packed ...
it was incredible .
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keirhardie
Apologies if it came across that way. I honestly welcome input from the crew. Without crew expressing why they have chosen to strike, then we cannot debate the issues.
I just felt that some of your words were highly emotive and probably responded in kind.
Apologies if it came across that way. I honestly welcome input from the crew. Without crew expressing why they have chosen to strike, then we cannot debate the issues.
I just felt that some of your words were highly emotive and probably responded in kind.