British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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BA's schedule for wave 2
The Telegraph (and numerous other papers) are reporting that BA are intending to fly 55% of shorthaul (compared to 30% in wave 1) and 70% longhaul (compared to 60%) out of Heathrow with full services from London City and Gatwick.
Ambitious, maybe but we had an awful lot of volunteer crew sitting around, not needed due to numbers of cabin crew turning up. I hope the numbers pleasantly surprise us again.
Ambitious, maybe but we had an awful lot of volunteer crew sitting around, not needed due to numbers of cabin crew turning up. I hope the numbers pleasantly surprise us again.
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I would be very wary of advice from BASSA's lawyers. They (as with BALPA's lawyers over Openskies) don't have a great track record against BA's lawyers.
It's yet another example of how BA are controlling this process and BASSA are, well, er, not.
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Mail Article
If there is any truth to this, it seems like CC are being used as cannon fodder for mr McCluskey's ambitions
Unite militants behind BA strike in plot to control Labour | Mail Online
Unite militants behind BA strike in plot to control Labour | Mail Online
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Yup, we've been banging on about this for weeks. In a similar vein, remember this, the Woodley/Simpson duo are due retirement. Woodley's baseless rhetoric is nothing more than a rabble rousing retirement speech. Remember too, their pensions are solid. Their (destructive) working lives are drawing to a close.
GF
PS. I know the article is in the Mail, but, it remains a frightening issue that thse destructive looneys are plotting. They hate a successful business.
GF
PS. I know the article is in the Mail, but, it remains a frightening issue that thse destructive looneys are plotting. They hate a successful business.
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A colleague has posted an erudite contribution on the BA BALPA website providing an insight into the lack of trust that our CC colleagues have with management. I will not cut and paste it but will paraphrase - I will let him post it if he feels it is appropriate.
He and some other VCC reported for a trip during the strike which was the first half of a Back to Back. There were some members of the crew that were regular CC. They were concerned that for the second half of the trip they would be rostered to fly with strikers. The prospect of this was causing serious misgivings amongst the regular crew. A CC manager was contacted by the CSD with regard to the situation. The CC manager stated that there were no guarantees and that they may well be operating with strikers. The CC were very peturbed about this and were of a mind not to operate, the manager said they would be treated as strikers if they took this action.
At this point the operating captain, part of the briefings during the strike, then stepped in. He found another CC manager who said "No problem I will deal with this and I guarantee that they will fly with other crew in the same position" He then combined two crews for the second part of the B2B and the problem was sorted.
You can see here a small but typical example of truly appalling CC management, also an example of good CC management. If some of the CC managers cannot be bothered to look after the people who are trying to help the company out during difficult times, than what hope is there. It also gives an insight as to how CC are sometimes managed on a day to day basis. If you are not a "bolshy" person who will ignore a foolish manager and go over their head - or as in this case have an advocate to do it for you, what do you do?
There are bad managers that need to be rooted out, there are militant CC that need to be rooted out, but like Eddy perhaps we should look at this more evenly and not become entrenched in our positions.
He and some other VCC reported for a trip during the strike which was the first half of a Back to Back. There were some members of the crew that were regular CC. They were concerned that for the second half of the trip they would be rostered to fly with strikers. The prospect of this was causing serious misgivings amongst the regular crew. A CC manager was contacted by the CSD with regard to the situation. The CC manager stated that there were no guarantees and that they may well be operating with strikers. The CC were very peturbed about this and were of a mind not to operate, the manager said they would be treated as strikers if they took this action.
At this point the operating captain, part of the briefings during the strike, then stepped in. He found another CC manager who said "No problem I will deal with this and I guarantee that they will fly with other crew in the same position" He then combined two crews for the second part of the B2B and the problem was sorted.
You can see here a small but typical example of truly appalling CC management, also an example of good CC management. If some of the CC managers cannot be bothered to look after the people who are trying to help the company out during difficult times, than what hope is there. It also gives an insight as to how CC are sometimes managed on a day to day basis. If you are not a "bolshy" person who will ignore a foolish manager and go over their head - or as in this case have an advocate to do it for you, what do you do?
There are bad managers that need to be rooted out, there are militant CC that need to be rooted out, but like Eddy perhaps we should look at this more evenly and not become entrenched in our positions.
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Left members expect Mr McClusky to win the Unite leadership election this summer. They like the way he works, his politics and his tub thumping class war rhetoric
'Capitalism has failed' said Mr McCluskey last year and the state should 'intervene where necessary through industry control and ownership'
This is the man trying to make a name for himself by destroying BA. This is a man who has a golden parachute pension paid for by Unite members. This is a man who's organisation is planning to exert direct pressure on the Government through financial coercement if Labour win the next election. This is a man who thinks nothing of flounting his expenses allowance on posh restaurants at the TUC congress but invites his striking members for a hot dog and a cup of tea whilst they lose their income. This is a man who takes home in excess of £150,000 of your membership fees every year.
Do you really trust this man?
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7000+ BA CC did. Question now is, how many still trust this Marxist cretin and how many will strike break this weekend having digested the facts from last weekend - assuming, of course, they gathered them, assimilated and understand what's going on here..... ?
GF
PS, I use the term 'cretin' with the modern definition in mind - no more, no less.
GF
PS, I use the term 'cretin' with the modern definition in mind - no more, no less.
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To strike or not to strike?
Well, I have been following this thread and various others on cf (although I don't post there because it can be hard as they are all pro-strike) and I have to say I am seeing things from both sides of the argument make sense.
To me, last weekend was something I thought was never going to happen but it did. I was off work so I didn't have to make a decision if to strike. However, I am in on day 1 of strike this weekend and I am scared to say the least. I have no idea what to do and I am a unite member (considering resigning) but I voted No! Why? Because I didn't feel I could strike over one person being taken off to LGW crewing levels and it didn't make sense to me. I know all the BASSA crew will be screaming 'it is about imposition not just that', but surely even they can see that BA had to impose because BASSA was no good in the negotiation stage.
Why am I scared to go to work? Well, I know for sure that I don't want to strike, because I voted no, but I also don't want to work because I am scared of having to work with these people in the future. I have heard them saying that they won't talk to scabs downroute in the bar or that we should be first onto new fleet because we are scabs. It is such a vile situation and it breaks my heart to think that I will be driving into work Sat and still not knowing if I should turn around and drive home from a job I love and want to do. No one can make that decision but me, I know that. However, it really makes me feel ill.
I can see that they are worried about their future with BA but if BASSA had been doing what they should have in the talks then they could of negotiated new fleet away and our jobs would be secure. I feel bad seeing them out in the rain on picket lines doing what they think is right but can't help thinking they been lead up the wrong path. I know this isn't a reason for me to strike but my head hurts with all the mind changing I've been doing this past week
To me, last weekend was something I thought was never going to happen but it did. I was off work so I didn't have to make a decision if to strike. However, I am in on day 1 of strike this weekend and I am scared to say the least. I have no idea what to do and I am a unite member (considering resigning) but I voted No! Why? Because I didn't feel I could strike over one person being taken off to LGW crewing levels and it didn't make sense to me. I know all the BASSA crew will be screaming 'it is about imposition not just that', but surely even they can see that BA had to impose because BASSA was no good in the negotiation stage.
Why am I scared to go to work? Well, I know for sure that I don't want to strike, because I voted no, but I also don't want to work because I am scared of having to work with these people in the future. I have heard them saying that they won't talk to scabs downroute in the bar or that we should be first onto new fleet because we are scabs. It is such a vile situation and it breaks my heart to think that I will be driving into work Sat and still not knowing if I should turn around and drive home from a job I love and want to do. No one can make that decision but me, I know that. However, it really makes me feel ill.
I can see that they are worried about their future with BA but if BASSA had been doing what they should have in the talks then they could of negotiated new fleet away and our jobs would be secure. I feel bad seeing them out in the rain on picket lines doing what they think is right but can't help thinking they been lead up the wrong path. I know this isn't a reason for me to strike but my head hurts with all the mind changing I've been doing this past week
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Can any of the BASSA supporters confirm or deny that two reps resigned prior to the strike so they could complete their CSD courses?
Great solidarity there if so - not!
I'm sure they'll come up with some reasonable excuse but it seems to me that once again it's the senior (long term) BASSA members looking after themselves while using the rank and file as canon fodder.
Great solidarity there if so - not!
I'm sure they'll come up with some reasonable excuse but it seems to me that once again it's the senior (long term) BASSA members looking after themselves while using the rank and file as canon fodder.
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1stClass,
Consider calling the crew helpline on 0800 389 0381. Several people in my department are manning the phones.
Also, look at the IFCE strike microsite for information.
https://planetba.baplc.com/general/a...e?OpenDocument
Consider calling the crew helpline on 0800 389 0381. Several people in my department are manning the phones.
Also, look at the IFCE strike microsite for information.
https://planetba.baplc.com/general/a...e?OpenDocument
Two CSD's just been ripped apart by an Employment lawyer on Radio 5 , one thought he was entitled to staff travel because he paid APD and Fuel surcharges on his Free tickets.
When pointed out that it he paid NO Income Tax on the benefit his argument quickly crumbled.
The penny maybe dropping now for the BASSA miltants.
When pointed out that it he paid NO Income Tax on the benefit his argument quickly crumbled.
The penny maybe dropping now for the BASSA miltants.
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Two CSD's just been ripped apart by an Employment lawyer on Radio 5 , one thought he was entitled to staff travel because he paid APD and Fuel surcharges on his Free tickets.
The lawyer said that Staff Travel does not attract tax - the CSD said that he paid all taxes - the lawyer then said not income tax as a benefit in kind - the CSD said, ok well you never said that - the lawyer then said thats what he meant.
Are you a Daily Mail reporter with your 'accurate' reporting technique?
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7000+ BA CC did
Once the decision has been made and the reality of what additional losses that strike action brings hits home then the company must offer a carrot to win those people back over as they have probably resigned themselves to the losses already and feel they have nothing else to lose. That carrot can be re-instatement of staff travel and guarantees of future employment protection but they must be honoured and correctly followed through only then will BA break the strike fully. BA must also make sure that the difficult personal decisions of those who chose to break the strike call also are noted and rewarded. As 1stclass has intimated the decision to break ranks is a difficult and stressful one as the individual must take into account the potential future pitfalls. What was interesting to see was the amount of people who opted to break the strike on the first day after hearing who was already in the CRC. Therefore my hat goes off to and my admiration goes to those who first reported on day 1 of the strike. Their actions directly led to the successful implementation of the contingency plans.
If BA can run the schedule it has planned for the next 4 day strike and then offers a 'get back to work' settlement then Unite would be in the realms of lunacy not to take it. BA will only wait so long before starting recruitment and issuing cancellation of contract. There is no shortage of willing applicants at the moment.
One of the major sticking points for Unite is that BA will not entertain the position of sole negotiator for Unite with respect for new contract employees. Neither will they accept a permenant role of Unite negotiator within the company. Why does Unite want these things so desperately? Looking at the future political agenda for Unite they are buying politicians to ensure that their policies get to the forefront. To do this requires cash and thus subscription fees. If Unite lose BA cabin crew they lose one of their major incomes. They will not accept that. Unite don't care about CC working conditions or wages they want numbers pure and simple.
As I have said before Unite are running a totally different agenda in an election year and BASSA are being played as their election mule.
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1st Class, what an eloquent post, thank you. And what a terrible dilemma!
There have already been some (also eloquent) posts on this thread written by some of your colleagues who perhaps shared your fears but did go into work over the past weekend. Some of the things people have talked about are their surprise at seeing so many people in the CRC and their surprise at how positive the working atmosphere was. I would urge you to read them and I think you would enjoy the working environment.
I can, in a small way, say I've experienced the same thing - I am volunteer cabin crew and attended a briefing on Sunday before being offloaded because enough normal crew turned up. I was pretty nervous before I went in but the cabin crew who were there seemed very positive, were happy to be there, and I understand the flight went very well (comments about it have appeared in the press). These people are a credit to their profession. It is sad to think that someone like yourself might feel bullied into staying away from work and I am sorry for the position you are in.
For me, the aftermath of the strike is a matter for everyone's professionalism. I hope the "one team" approach everyone seems to have experienced during the strike will continue afterwards. I think it will and I think it will be difficult for strikers to disrupt the good will of everyone else without finding themselves either offloaded or in other difficulties with the company. Besides, you can always hang out with the pilots down-route if you want to!
There have already been some (also eloquent) posts on this thread written by some of your colleagues who perhaps shared your fears but did go into work over the past weekend. Some of the things people have talked about are their surprise at seeing so many people in the CRC and their surprise at how positive the working atmosphere was. I would urge you to read them and I think you would enjoy the working environment.
I can, in a small way, say I've experienced the same thing - I am volunteer cabin crew and attended a briefing on Sunday before being offloaded because enough normal crew turned up. I was pretty nervous before I went in but the cabin crew who were there seemed very positive, were happy to be there, and I understand the flight went very well (comments about it have appeared in the press). These people are a credit to their profession. It is sad to think that someone like yourself might feel bullied into staying away from work and I am sorry for the position you are in.
For me, the aftermath of the strike is a matter for everyone's professionalism. I hope the "one team" approach everyone seems to have experienced during the strike will continue afterwards. I think it will and I think it will be difficult for strikers to disrupt the good will of everyone else without finding themselves either offloaded or in other difficulties with the company. Besides, you can always hang out with the pilots down-route if you want to!
Anyone with an ounce of sense would have realised the Employment lawyer meant income tax !!
The CSD's argument was that because he paid APD and Fuel surcharges , he paid Taxes on Staff travel and it therefore should be considered "Contractual"
Not so said the Lawyer it was most defintely a Perk.
Sorry but from my standpoint both CSD's arguments were picked apart quite easily.
He also stated BA were in thier right to terminate the contracts of all the strikers provided they were not re-employed within 3 months
Made for interesting Listening.
The CSD's argument was that because he paid APD and Fuel surcharges , he paid Taxes on Staff travel and it therefore should be considered "Contractual"
Not so said the Lawyer it was most defintely a Perk.
Sorry but from my standpoint both CSD's arguments were picked apart quite easily.
He also stated BA were in thier right to terminate the contracts of all the strikers provided they were not re-employed within 3 months
Made for interesting Listening.
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Right Touch
I agree with you that his comments where 'picked apart' as he just picked up on the comments made by the lawyer about tax - however he was most certainly not 'ripped' by anyone.
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1stClass.....
Just turn up and don't worry, over 50% of your collegues came in each day at the weekend.
Less than 1000 crew actually went on strike.
It will be many more this time round.
Even after this coming weekend the strikers will number a max of about 2000 out of a workforce of 13,500
Downroute in the future you will always be in the majority and the flag wavers will be the minority.
If as BASSA said only 26 people were turning up then of course you should have concerns, the reality is very different. You would be a fool not to.
If it helps you can still attend "relutantly", many crew weren't happy to be there, they just wanted to keep the money and staff travel.
Some even wore their BASSA id lanyards!!
BASSA will never give up on this and will not win so you may aswell give up on them now and keep those club tickets.
Just turn up and don't worry, over 50% of your collegues came in each day at the weekend.
Less than 1000 crew actually went on strike.
It will be many more this time round.
Even after this coming weekend the strikers will number a max of about 2000 out of a workforce of 13,500
Downroute in the future you will always be in the majority and the flag wavers will be the minority.
If as BASSA said only 26 people were turning up then of course you should have concerns, the reality is very different. You would be a fool not to.
If it helps you can still attend "relutantly", many crew weren't happy to be there, they just wanted to keep the money and staff travel.
Some even wore their BASSA id lanyards!!
BASSA will never give up on this and will not win so you may aswell give up on them now and keep those club tickets.
Last edited by plodding along; 24th Mar 2010 at 12:09.
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The language and rhetoric on Crewforum and the Bassa forum leave me really questioning their sanity -and their intelligence.
Clearly very few crew read ESS and are unaware of their rights. Which is outrageous when some very militant unionists are now bleating about the loss of staff travel or pay. Also some more suspensions must be in the offing with barely concealed threats to non-strikers and pilots.
Many are calling for longer strikes as they believe Willie (and BA) are lying and will crack soon.
Clearly BA can continue a reasonable operation indefinitely. And considering that most money is made from very few routes it is probable that we can stay in business for some considerable time. The share price reflects the city's confidence in Wilie too. I was in the CRC every day and the atmosphere was great. Many crew felt truly liberated as they were not harrassed by the militants at every step. It did seem like all the "good" guys turned up!
I hope that BA offer a 2nd chance to all crew wanting to work -even if they went on strike last weekend.
HOWEVER , do any of us want the hardcore back? Aren't we fed up with their anti-BA, anti-management, anti-pilot, anti-work etc etc etc attitude!!!
Perhaps the plan is to hope that sufficient crew come back to work (say 80%) then simply starve the rest of work until they are compelled to leave.
I have some sympathy with crew as their management has been poor.
But their agreements have always been so inflexible , and Bassa so belligerent, that any empathetic manager must become very quickly disillusioned.
Also, some of the posts on the crew forums are so aggressive that I cannot see how those individuals could ever be allowed to work as a crewmember on board an aircraft again. They clearly have no understanding or respect for the command structure or the law.
Clearly very few crew read ESS and are unaware of their rights. Which is outrageous when some very militant unionists are now bleating about the loss of staff travel or pay. Also some more suspensions must be in the offing with barely concealed threats to non-strikers and pilots.
Many are calling for longer strikes as they believe Willie (and BA) are lying and will crack soon.
Clearly BA can continue a reasonable operation indefinitely. And considering that most money is made from very few routes it is probable that we can stay in business for some considerable time. The share price reflects the city's confidence in Wilie too. I was in the CRC every day and the atmosphere was great. Many crew felt truly liberated as they were not harrassed by the militants at every step. It did seem like all the "good" guys turned up!
I hope that BA offer a 2nd chance to all crew wanting to work -even if they went on strike last weekend.
HOWEVER , do any of us want the hardcore back? Aren't we fed up with their anti-BA, anti-management, anti-pilot, anti-work etc etc etc attitude!!!
Perhaps the plan is to hope that sufficient crew come back to work (say 80%) then simply starve the rest of work until they are compelled to leave.
I have some sympathy with crew as their management has been poor.
But their agreements have always been so inflexible , and Bassa so belligerent, that any empathetic manager must become very quickly disillusioned.
Also, some of the posts on the crew forums are so aggressive that I cannot see how those individuals could ever be allowed to work as a crewmember on board an aircraft again. They clearly have no understanding or respect for the command structure or the law.
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The Blu Riband
I have some sympathy with crew as their management has been poor.
Cabin Crew have a leadership team that seems to change on a whim, with no stability, no long-term partnership building and no time to build a trusting relationship