British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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For those outside of aviation (which is the majority) view the parked up planes on tv and make their own conclusions.
Regardless of if those planes have been there for months or not due to the downturn makes no difference just seeing row upon row of ba planes bound for nowhere is very very damaging to ba I mean would you make a booking with them at present?
I have a friend who was a temp last year and got the call to come back to cover the strike on dreadful pay (her choice to accept the job I know). She has flown nowhere yet so ba customers must be flying on chartered out flights.
The word between crew seems to be if you voted to strike and didnt come in at weekend
If you voted no to the strike and came in to operate
The venom is aimed towards the yes voters who went in
I have a feeling this will drag on and on.
Regardless of if those planes have been there for months or not due to the downturn makes no difference just seeing row upon row of ba planes bound for nowhere is very very damaging to ba I mean would you make a booking with them at present?
I have a friend who was a temp last year and got the call to come back to cover the strike on dreadful pay (her choice to accept the job I know). She has flown nowhere yet so ba customers must be flying on chartered out flights.
The word between crew seems to be if you voted to strike and didnt come in at weekend
If you voted no to the strike and came in to operate
The venom is aimed towards the yes voters who went in
I have a feeling this will drag on and on.
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Not that I am the messiah or anythig, but I have decided to post my feelings on this whole subject in full and in spite of the trrouble that may cause for me with the company and possibly my union. It will be an honest, no holds barred report of day one of the strike which is the only day on whicxh I was impacted. Stand by or that in a few hours.
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WW probably has been too media shy and maybe now the initial strike is over he could invite the Press in for a short information release and statement. A la his YouTube pieces but straight to the massed hordes of reporters.
Tony Woodley however spoken to every media outfit who stuck a microphone in front of him and it did feel that this morning he was starting to sound desperate. Suggesting that both parties should meet again for talks gave a hint of minor panic because he is being ignored. I think both the BBC and Sky picked up on this and the more positive coverage Unite had received this morning seemed to fall away a little.
Tony Woodley however spoken to every media outfit who stuck a microphone in front of him and it did feel that this morning he was starting to sound desperate. Suggesting that both parties should meet again for talks gave a hint of minor panic because he is being ignored. I think both the BBC and Sky picked up on this and the more positive coverage Unite had received this morning seemed to fall away a little.
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bacabincrew
bacabincrew said:
I don't think you can judge the success or failure of the operation by the number of passengers carried.
BA offered refunds/re-booking over strike days, so of course loads are going to be low. Most of our passengers decided that they simply couldn't take the chance. (Can hardly blame them!)
BA have said that their reports MUST be factual, because investors base decisions on them.
The evidence of my own eyes also leads me to believe that around 50% of crew were reporting for duty, on Saturday at least (the last time I was in CRC).
My belief is that BA will win eventually. Because if it looks like it's going to lose it will issue 90-day notice on CC contracts.
This is not conjecture - in the last offer from BA, there is a statement that if the way BA & the unions do business hasn't changed by June, it will issue 90-day notice.
The worst possible case for CC is a long drawn out dispute - only a knockout blow of 100% support on day 1 would have won the day, and that clearly is not the case (whatever UNITE claim.)
There are huge changes heading our way (all employees) over the next 12 months.
Cabin Crew NEED their reps at the negotiating table influencing this change, not standing out in the rain holding a banner.
My wife is a WW Purser, and the longer this goes on, the more I fear for her future.
the fact that yesterday around 8/9,000 flew with BA tells a story in itself
BA offered refunds/re-booking over strike days, so of course loads are going to be low. Most of our passengers decided that they simply couldn't take the chance. (Can hardly blame them!)
BA have said that their reports MUST be factual, because investors base decisions on them.
The evidence of my own eyes also leads me to believe that around 50% of crew were reporting for duty, on Saturday at least (the last time I was in CRC).
My belief is that BA will win eventually. Because if it looks like it's going to lose it will issue 90-day notice on CC contracts.
This is not conjecture - in the last offer from BA, there is a statement that if the way BA & the unions do business hasn't changed by June, it will issue 90-day notice.
The worst possible case for CC is a long drawn out dispute - only a knockout blow of 100% support on day 1 would have won the day, and that clearly is not the case (whatever UNITE claim.)
There are huge changes heading our way (all employees) over the next 12 months.
Cabin Crew NEED their reps at the negotiating table influencing this change, not standing out in the rain holding a banner.
My wife is a WW Purser, and the longer this goes on, the more I fear for her future.
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I have been in the CRC frequently during the last 3 days.
The numbers BA claim seem about right.
Today the % of crew seems even higher than over the weekend.
Very few vols are actually flying.
Minimum crew still being used ; but no flights have been cancelled due insufficient crew.
In fact BA now has a full complement of QRS and airport standby crew too ( real ones) !!!
On average there are around 150 crew (i'm guessing) at any time.
For Bassa to claim only 26 turned up is an unbelievable lie.
There are 26 in the queue for coffee at the moment.
I just hope that Willie protects the non strikers!!
The numbers BA claim seem about right.
Today the % of crew seems even higher than over the weekend.
Very few vols are actually flying.
Minimum crew still being used ; but no flights have been cancelled due insufficient crew.
In fact BA now has a full complement of QRS and airport standby crew too ( real ones) !!!
On average there are around 150 crew (i'm guessing) at any time.
For Bassa to claim only 26 turned up is an unbelievable lie.
There are 26 in the queue for coffee at the moment.
I just hope that Willie protects the non strikers!!
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Here we go another public opinion poll BASSA is trying to win by encouraging all it's members to vote and re-vote on.
Think they won the GMTV one earlier today as they advised that u can delete the cookies and therefore vote more than once.
92% against the strike then managed to finish 52% in favour.
Money Saving Expert: Consumer Revenge - Credit Cards, Shopping, Bank Charges, Cheap Flights and more
It's at the bottom of the page and only takes a sec.
"its fixed voted 3 times clearing my cookies out each time"
Think they won the GMTV one earlier today as they advised that u can delete the cookies and therefore vote more than once.
92% against the strike then managed to finish 52% in favour.
Money Saving Expert: Consumer Revenge - Credit Cards, Shopping, Bank Charges, Cheap Flights and more
It's at the bottom of the page and only takes a sec.
"its fixed voted 3 times clearing my cookies out each time"
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I have just left the office at approx 1400.
During that time 52 BA aircraft excluding wet lease aircraft departed T5.
37 of these flights had passengers on board in many cases the load factor was 85pc or above. There were a couple of flights re-instated at a late stage that operated with a full complement of crew but only a handfull of passengers. 15 flight departed as freighters however they too had cabin crew on board ready for the the return sectors.
During that time 52 BA aircraft excluding wet lease aircraft departed T5.
37 of these flights had passengers on board in many cases the load factor was 85pc or above. There were a couple of flights re-instated at a late stage that operated with a full complement of crew but only a handfull of passengers. 15 flight departed as freighters however they too had cabin crew on board ready for the the return sectors.
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Going Back
The problem is you can't.
Turn back the clock that is. Of course the deal on offer last Friday was worse than the previous one.
The next one will be even worse for the obvious reason that this IA is costing BA millions, both now and in future lost revenue.
Before I left BA many people felt that the airline was somehow "special", deserved more money, people would fly BA well, because it was the flag carrier, a National Icon, whatever. So the overhead in Waterside could pay themselves above market rates, People in such departments as IM could develop poorly cost justified systems which ended up by costing money rather than saving money, and it was fine for cabin crew to be paid 50% more than say easyjet.
I have to say that Joe Public probably does not care a great deal about who operates the tube in which he flies.
I think Mr. Walsh knows that. The BA cost structure is simply wrong for the 21st century.
Go back to work while there is still an airline.
Turn back the clock that is. Of course the deal on offer last Friday was worse than the previous one.
The next one will be even worse for the obvious reason that this IA is costing BA millions, both now and in future lost revenue.
Before I left BA many people felt that the airline was somehow "special", deserved more money, people would fly BA well, because it was the flag carrier, a National Icon, whatever. So the overhead in Waterside could pay themselves above market rates, People in such departments as IM could develop poorly cost justified systems which ended up by costing money rather than saving money, and it was fine for cabin crew to be paid 50% more than say easyjet.
I have to say that Joe Public probably does not care a great deal about who operates the tube in which he flies.
I think Mr. Walsh knows that. The BA cost structure is simply wrong for the 21st century.
Go back to work while there is still an airline.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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A great deal of the information they have put out over the last three days has no basis in fact.
Thanks for your assistance, Mariner9.
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Cabin Crew NEED their reps at the negotiating table influencing this change, not standing out in the rain holding a banner
If everyone behaved like adults, WW included and got back around a table then hopefully, just hopefully this might get sorted.
I dread to think what WW was like as a kid, he's throwing his toys out the cot like a spoilt child, he must have been a nightmare kid to bring up if this is how he behaves.
UNI1 your reps have had since the beginning of last year to thrash out a deal with the company . Other departments in BA Managed to make the given deadline of June 2009 for cost savings , why not yours ?
Remember the High Court ruling recently published where the judge criticised Unite and Amicus reps ( ie Bassa & CC89 ) for not even being able to sit in the same room as each other at the ACAS meetings because of their past disagreements and history ?
Hardly the behaviour of adults , more like the spoilt child you make out WW to be , and yet your happy this is the calibre of people leading you to oblivion ?
Remember the High Court ruling recently published where the judge criticised Unite and Amicus reps ( ie Bassa & CC89 ) for not even being able to sit in the same room as each other at the ACAS meetings because of their past disagreements and history ?
Hardly the behaviour of adults , more like the spoilt child you make out WW to be , and yet your happy this is the calibre of people leading you to oblivion ?
uni1
Most of us who believe that the bassa numpties have led cc 'up the garden path' DO NOT WANT the company to offer further talks. The vile and disgusting influence of the really militant bassa-ites need to be put in their place - PERMANENTLY!!
There are dozens of first-hand reports of how pleasant the flights have been without the miseries! Of how well the pax have reacted to those that have gone the extra mile.
I hope WW makes bassa stew - and offers an even worse deal. He will need to offer a worse deal to ensure that those selfish individuals that have cost the company so much money - pay their way!!
Most of us who believe that the bassa numpties have led cc 'up the garden path' DO NOT WANT the company to offer further talks. The vile and disgusting influence of the really militant bassa-ites need to be put in their place - PERMANENTLY!!
There are dozens of first-hand reports of how pleasant the flights have been without the miseries! Of how well the pax have reacted to those that have gone the extra mile.
I hope WW makes bassa stew - and offers an even worse deal. He will need to offer a worse deal to ensure that those selfish individuals that have cost the company so much money - pay their way!!
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I'd rather be led by these reps than by WW himself, god knows where we'll all end up there.
If the rest of Waterworld and/or BA want to accept the deal(s) that were put in front of them then that's their choice. No-one in their right mind would accept a deal that wasn't fair and reasonable and comparible to what has been settled elsewhere in the airline.
And as for WW doing what he was told as a kid, shame he didn't follow some of it through to his adult lift, i.e. sit in a corner and only speak when spoken to ...
.
If the rest of Waterworld and/or BA want to accept the deal(s) that were put in front of them then that's their choice. No-one in their right mind would accept a deal that wasn't fair and reasonable and comparible to what has been settled elsewhere in the airline.
And as for WW doing what he was told as a kid, shame he didn't follow some of it through to his adult lift, i.e. sit in a corner and only speak when spoken to ...
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uni1 THE REST OF BA sat down looked at the figures presented to them and NEGOTIATED a settlement which was mutually benefical to all parties given the current economic climate.
BASSAs response was to stick their fingers in their ears.
The initial offer from BA was fair given the circumstances and offered NO pay cuts, NO New fleet just a Reduced Crew compliments in line with LGW and the removal of the disruption agreement.
All in all pretty fair and reasonable
Compare that now to what you are now facing thanks to BASSAs refusal to negotiate.
Remember it was BASSA who came up with the pay cut not the company !!
Still happy to be led by your Reps ??
BASSAs response was to stick their fingers in their ears.
The initial offer from BA was fair given the circumstances and offered NO pay cuts, NO New fleet just a Reduced Crew compliments in line with LGW and the removal of the disruption agreement.
All in all pretty fair and reasonable
Compare that now to what you are now facing thanks to BASSAs refusal to negotiate.
Remember it was BASSA who came up with the pay cut not the company !!
Still happy to be led by your Reps ??
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What really makes me laugh is the number of you who take WW word as gospil and anything that comes out of the Unite campus as total lies.
The truth is both sides are lying and fibbing.
None of you seem to know much about the Aer Lingus problems when WW was there. He is using the exact same tactics as back then and making the same misleading remarks and making BOTH SIDES look like fools!
But at the end of the day he will get after all of you and attack your pay and jobs because he really believes that he can get away with anything.
And for the record....negotiation is a two way street for both sides to strike out "deals"! Not for one side to dictate what the other must accept.....thats communism!
The truth is both sides are lying and fibbing.
None of you seem to know much about the Aer Lingus problems when WW was there. He is using the exact same tactics as back then and making the same misleading remarks and making BOTH SIDES look like fools!
But at the end of the day he will get after all of you and attack your pay and jobs because he really believes that he can get away with anything.
And for the record....negotiation is a two way street for both sides to strike out "deals"! Not for one side to dictate what the other must accept.....thats communism!
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"BASSAs response was to stick their fingers in their ears"
Quite happy to be led by the reps that want a FAIR settlement for all and not just the one sided "fairness" that WW wants to impose.
As for other parts of the airline, sitting down and listening to both sides - I am sorry to say that the Unions on the ground for the most part are weak and would negotiate anything to save themselves the long hard slog to get something that is more reasonable to both sides. I know, I used to work on the ground for 15 years and the unions there were useless.
And finally as for sticking fingers in ears, isn't that what WW does, he just likes the sound of his own voice too much
Quite happy to be led by the reps that want a FAIR settlement for all and not just the one sided "fairness" that WW wants to impose.
As for other parts of the airline, sitting down and listening to both sides - I am sorry to say that the Unions on the ground for the most part are weak and would negotiate anything to save themselves the long hard slog to get something that is more reasonable to both sides. I know, I used to work on the ground for 15 years and the unions there were useless.
And finally as for sticking fingers in ears, isn't that what WW does, he just likes the sound of his own voice too much
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the next few days ...
So the 1st stike ends today, but for Longhaul volunteers leaving LHR today it could be a hard week as they could be sharing hotels with (striking) crew who leave LHR tomorrow ... there are a number of trips that have 48 hour+ layovers. I know LH cabin crew, who have commented to other crew (on a trip) they will not strike, only to find no-one has spoken to them for the rest of that trip - it shows how vindictive some people are, a real shame.
I hope that any bullying or aggressive comments are dealt with appropriately/assertively by the Captains - I guess that if anyone was offloaded for this they would struggle to keep their job on return to LHR.
I can only imagine what the next deal on the table will be for the cabin crew - when the dust settles I am sure the current offer will not cover all the cost of these 7 days of strikes ... its funny how Tony Woodley(
) is now having to negotiate things like staff travel back in- I think the phrase 'digging a deep hole' might be appropriate!
Lets hope that Network Rail, the underground, et al. now have confidence to stand up and take on/beat these Unions - it seems to me that once strikes are called, the Unions are always confident of getting a good deal - maybe we will look back in a few years and see this as a turning point ...
I hope that any bullying or aggressive comments are dealt with appropriately/assertively by the Captains - I guess that if anyone was offloaded for this they would struggle to keep their job on return to LHR.
I can only imagine what the next deal on the table will be for the cabin crew - when the dust settles I am sure the current offer will not cover all the cost of these 7 days of strikes ... its funny how Tony Woodley(
) is now having to negotiate things like staff travel back in- I think the phrase 'digging a deep hole' might be appropriate!Lets hope that Network Rail, the underground, et al. now have confidence to stand up and take on/beat these Unions - it seems to me that once strikes are called, the Unions are always confident of getting a good deal - maybe we will look back in a few years and see this as a turning point ...
Quite happy to be led by the reps that want a FAIR settlement for all and not just the one sided "fairness" that WW wants to impose.