British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[windows69]

Maybe you would like to look up the pay of the Iberia cabin crew and get back to me. Also to subtansiate the story of crew threateing to poison the flight crew. Also please explain why posts froma private members only forum are copied here , and i dont mean the posts copied by cabin crew. which by the way is not allowed , you will notice that on our forums we have copied nothing from here

[Hotel Mode]

Maybe you would like to look up the pay of the Iberia cabin crew and get back to me.

Do you mean look up the press reports about Iberia pay or the reality? The very top grade earn the quoted amount, but quoting that alone is like saying that BA cabin crew earn the CSD average of £50000.

The reality is that main crew take home around 800 Euros per month plus allowances and thats long haul.

[Juan Tugoh]

Have you any idea how annoying it is to get bumped by a 3yr service CC member 'because they have an unwritten agreement' when you have 25yrs in, a firm ticket ID 100 and are trying to get a 26hr flight from the other side of the world? With your family in tow?

This is a popular misconception. CSDs or captains or other CC can only upgrade after doors are closed. At this stage all of the staff passengers have been seated in accordance with ST rules and regs. Rant by all means that it is unfair, in your opinion, that some people have friends who look after them , but don't try to say you have been screwed over to allow this to happen.

If you really think that you were mishandled in order for some fraud to take place, I presume you made an official complaint about it. If you did not you only have yourself to blame about a rotten system.

[demomonkey]

Windows69, check your facts;

• It has never been formally tabled that you should accept £11,000 + £2.45p/h. Even if you worked 900p/a that would give you a gross of £13,205. This has never been tabled as an offer. It is BASSA spin.
• Pilots and Ground Staff, Engineers and Office staff could equally accuse BASSA of undermining their job security by calling for a 12 day strike over Christmas in a time their employer was making unprecedented losses. No one (inc BASSA rank and file) wants to lose their job over BASSA's leadership mis-direction.
• Pay was deducted from employees who went on strike. Legally this is legitimate. Everyone has been warning BASSA members that this was always the case (even BALPA warned it's members in the 2008 dispute). BASSA did not clearly state the facts to its membership before the strike took place.
• Lies, lies and damn lies. Everyone else is lying except BASSA. So if BA is a PLC and it releases incorrect information it can be sued by any shareholder. As BASSA is free to purchase BA shares and it has stated on numerous occasions that BA has lied, it could have purchased one share and sued BA for damages just to prove a point. I am unaware of any actions active or pending against BA by any shareholders. Looks like they're all very happy with the information BA are supplying.
• Is 'no upgrades' the worst that you can now do having played all your trump cards? But remember it works both ways. The 'I'm tired, I'm cold, I hate England' crowd rely on their colleagues in EF and there is ALOT of disillusionment against BASSA's strategy in that group. Be careful what you wish for!

Stop spouting the same old rehetoric and bitter resentment, go and do some independent research for yourself. History is going to turn a new page and BASSA are going to become a footnote.

I see that you're a new member here, so welcome. But you're also making alot of posts in a very short time. Are you today's nominated BASSA sock puppet sent over from BASSA HQ to convert the masses? Well good luck, many others have tried and failed because PPrune is open to all and any statement here has to stand up on it's own and not be supported with 'BASSA terror'.

"What do we want? WW to go, CSDs to do no work, Gatwick to work for nothing oh and if we could have some healthy eating options at Bedfont it would be absolutely super! When do we want it? If you could have it done by the time we're finished our 11hrs of bunk rest on this 12hr flight it would be super super"

My humblest of apologies to real crew. I hope you know it is the attitooode of the few I am mocking, not the commitment of the silent majority.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by demomonkey

Stop spouting the same old rehetoric and bitter resentment, go and do some independent research for yourself. History is going to turn a new page and BASSA are going to become a footnote.

Isn't this rhetoric too?

[The Blu Riband]

i stated BA have lied continually

please give a list of recent BA lies.

Some of you seem to have a personal vendetta against cabin crew

Please quote an example

you will notice that on our forums we have copied nothing from here

You wouldn't dare quote something from here on Crewforum because you might be seen as colluding with the enemy.

pay of the Iberia cabin crew

Not as high as yours , even allowing for the strong euro.
And under huge pressure from Iberia's lo-cost subsidiary, so probably won't last much longer

[The Blu Riband]

I have my payslip in front of me and as main crew earn £21, 000 pounds basic on a 75% contract, with allowances £28,000 pounds

Wow, so as 75% cabin crew you earn 28,000!!

Isn't that more than Willie claimed? Or is that what you meant?

[demomonkey]

Originally posted by Litebulbs:
Isn't this rhetoric too?

So we're supposed to sit here and listen to the same old rubbish and not challenge it? People, please wake up and do your own research and thinking.

Ask yourself what is BASSA's objective? Does Duncan have your or LaLa's interests at heart? Why aren't shareholders legally challenging WW untruths? What was actually ever tabled?

Please start reading your ESSMail. It might have some spin but it has alot of truth too and some people don't want you to read it.

[The Blu Riband]

Many pilots from the outside woild be lining up to take their place

How many qualified 777 captains are there in the Uk, or even the whole world, who would be willing to leave their current job to start again with BA?
Fair question, I have no idea.
But I am not paid above the going rate.
I am paid quite well for the Uk, but not excessively so. And compared to other carriers worldwide I am paid quite poorly.


You have the right to strike but your claims re pay cuts are pure speculation.
Crew are still aware that they will still be relatively overpaid and thus will remain vulnerable to future change but nevertheless the current deal is very good, and fair.

The deal BA has offered is actually so fair that many are very surprised Willie has been so generous.

If you go to work during the next strike I promise to give you my full support and protection.

[The Blu Riband]

we have various legal cases on the go as we speak

Joke ?

Please please please,
Never let me be represented by Bassa or their legal team!

[fly12345]

Windows69,
Please do some serious research and stick to facts instead of sensationalistic nonsense, Iberia have 22% temporary staff earning on average 1600/1800 Euros pm.
Their full time cabin crew on average earn 2400 Euros (after tax) per month including allowances and operate on an A340-600 with 11 crew (354 passengers) and 9 crew on the A340-300, careful what you compere and wish for.
IB had a pay freeze for the last 4 years.
BF has never stated that present crew will ever earn 11k per year or being forced on an hourly rate and or new fleet, the company has on numerous occasions stated that will continue to honor your present T & C and relevant pay increments when due, they simply want and need to change the future T & C with the sole and only reason that if they don t do so there will be no BA left to argue and strike about.
Spend your time and energy in understanding and safeguarding what you have got instead of destroying what you have achieved and denying future and present generations a future at BA.

[essessdeedee]

W69

Having flown for over 20 years iwas not going to accept a deal where i would end up on £11,000 pounds a tear and £2.45an hour.

Where have BA ever said that this wold happen?

The question of staff travel is also being dealtwith as if tou take the time to read the ACAS site it is deemed as illegal.

BA said that crew taking industrial action would lose staff travel permanently. Not a threat, simply a statement of fact.

Upgrades will be a thing of the past now as those on strike fear risking a fraud charge and gross misconduct for doing it.

Any unjustfiable upgrade, doors open or closed , could be considered like this striker or not.

Iberia cabin crew make £46,000 per annum therefore NOT making us the highly paid CC in Europe

BA cabin crew still take home double their nearest competitor. SFG.

May I suggest you step away from the BASSA forum and get the facts?

[Pornpants1]

Windows69

I really admire you trying, but post facts not rhetoric.

Having flown for over 20 years iwas not going to accept a deal where i would end up on £11,000 pounds a tear and £2.45an hour.

Where is this in any form of writing? Under any deal your basic pay, and current pay scales has been protected, both WW and BF have consistently said this for the last 12 months, nothing has ever been tabled where your pay will be reduced to 11k per year and 2.45p per hour.

The question of staff travel is also being dealtwith as if tou take the time to read the ACAS site it is deemed as illegal.Watch this space.

I'm not holding my breath, based upon all the other court cases BASSA have lost, and all the times I have listened to colleagues quote the law as FACT and be consistently shown to be wrong, I know where my thoughts on this subject lies.

As with regards to our pay ,i am at the top of my pay scale and work on ww LHR. I have my payslip in front of me and as main crew earn £21, 000 pounds basic on a 75% contract, with allowances £28,000 pounds

36K per annum not bad for someone with no supervisory responsibilities.

pilots stepping in and undermining our industrial actions has left a very bitter taste in our mouths as has the fact you were being paid £166 p/h

Consider this would it be OK as a result of your industrial action that Pilots sat at home on 166 pounds per hour? Or would the company prefer them to do something useful for that cash? Yet again you have fallen foul or BASSA rhetoric and reproduced it as FACT.

When it comes to any future action pilots have to take you will have very very few that support you.

Open your eyes, everything is stacked against industrial unrest, even your branch chair admits this, strike action rarely garners any support, so I would not expect any, and don't understand why you would think that your action should garner you automatic support, most people have looked at the facts and tried to understand them, thus BASSA and Cabin Crew find themselves where they are today.

TURIN

Have you any idea how annoying it is to get bumped by a 3yr service CC member 'because they have an unwritten agreement' when you have 25yrs in, a firm ticket ID 100 and are trying to get a 26hr flight from the other side of the world? With your family in tow?

Never seen what you are describing in 15 years, PM the details and I will ensure someone looks into it for you.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by The Blu Riband

Joke ?

Please please please,
Never let me be represented by Bassa or their legal team!

Haven't BALPA only lost one less case than BASSA in recent times, with regard to BA industrial relations?

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by demomonkey

So we're supposed to sit here and listen to the same old rubbish and not challenge it?

You are free to challenge what you wish. You can use rhetoric too, but then don't request another party not to.

[Pornpants1]

Litebulbs, I don't know what the score is re BASSA and BALPA and losses in court.

The difference lies in the information the differing parties get re the outcome, BASSA always appear to suggest it can't lose and lets wild speculation run rampant and unchecked through the community.

Conversely BALPA appraises its members of the risks involved and the reason they are where they are.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by fly12345

.....they simply want and need to change the future T & C with the sole and only reason that if they don t do so there will be no BA left to argue and strike about.
Spend your time and energy in understanding and safeguarding what you have got instead of destroying what you have achieved and denying future and present generations a future at BA.

But isn't that the exact same reason Balpa confronted BA two years ago. Why not let new flight crew be recruited on the same terms as BarbiesBoyfriend at a wholly owned BA subsidiary, in the UK and not just overseas?

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by Pornpants1

Litebulbs, I don't know what the score is re BASSA and BALPA and losses in court.

The difference lies in the information the differing parties get re the outcome, BASSA always appear to suggest it can't lose and lets wild speculation run rampant and unchecked through the community.

Conversely BALPA appraises its members of the risks involved and the reason they are where they are.

This poll is quite interesting then -

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...ance-vote.html

Is it the quality of your reps within BA that makes the difference?

[Pornpants1]

But isn't that the exact same reason Balpa confronted BA two years ago. Why not let new flight crew be recruited on the same terms as BarbiesBoyfriend at a wholly owned BA subsidiary, in the UK and not just overseas?

Litebulbs, BALPA had agreed to the remuneration package for "openskies" pilots. hope this helps and you get to read it prior to the MOD removing it since it has little to do with the ongoing debate

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by Pornpants1

I really admire you trying, but post facts not rhetoric.

Open your eyes, everything is stacked against industrial unrest

Why in one breath request something and then a few sentences further on, do something that goes against your request?