British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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One thing about this strike action and the loss of staff travel for the strikers. Who amongst us is going to feel comfortable going on holiday on Staff Travel tickets with a 747 crew who have all lost their staff travel? What will the atmosphere and service be like do you think?
If the cabin crew make the atmosphere uncomfortable, earphones in, movie on, and I'll somehow manage!
But as the MAJORITY of cabin crew are working, and are providing an excellent atmosphere on board, I don't foresee a problem.
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Rai,
An ex poster, Barbiesboyfriend, works for a subsidiary of BA and was on £20K as an FO. There is a lot of fat in all departments.
An ex poster, Barbiesboyfriend, works for a subsidiary of BA and was on £20K as an FO. There is a lot of fat in all departments.
You know what, i totally agree. None of us are immune from the constant pressure of 'reducing costs'. There are many threats in the pilot world just around the corner, from the change to Flight Time Limitations to the increased use of newbie cadets who pratically pay to fly. If you really want to look at the bigger picture, then those of us in the West should all be afraid of the new world order that is about to come from India and China. If India can make a brand new car (Tata Nano) for £1000, what hope do car factories in the West have?
Well the answer is that the West will change and adapt. We may have to give up manufacturing to the East as we can never compete on cost, but we will find other ways to compete and play to our strenghts. But if we do not accept the new world order and adapt, then we're screwed. Its the way it has been and its the way it always will be.
Sorry for the awful thread creep - but the point is that i know that my job in aviation is not going to be worth having by the time im close to retirement. I can cry about it, but that wont change anything - its a fact. So what can i do? Well my union is helping by engaging with my employer to minimise the damage in the short term. That should help the older guys with kids and mortgages who are pretty much stuck in the job. As for younger guys like me? To be totally honest with you, im already thinking about an exit strategy - another degree, MBA, some other personal options i have. And looking even further than that, i'll be telling my kids not to become pilots and to be dentists or opticians instead!
I love the job and its been fun while its lasted but i know the party wont last forever. At least BA gave Unite an option which protected the T & C's of existing crews who may not be able to switch careers or go back to uni. But they threw it away for some reason i dont know and i think thats scandalous. I think Unite have misjudged the fundamental shift in the industry and rather than embracing the new world order and fighting their way to the top of it, they are fighting against the new world order and sinking to the bottom of it.
Thats enough crap from me for one night!
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bacabincrew
We have all had it good in BA, no matter what department we are from. The difference is that the majority of us have realised and understood the need for change and it has been difficult. Within passenger service, we have lost hundreds of staff in the past year and the company (along with our union reps) have managed to continue talking and exploring various ways of doing things. It has meant that we have had to work harding and do more than previously, but we are trying.
Lots of us took unpaid leave in the past year, we have lost colleagues through VR and some unfortunately due to other circumstances. We have had cuts in the numbers in certain roles which have increased work loads. We often work several staff short for no extra payments, and yet we haven't gone on strike.
Those of us who work in the terminals, no matter where, also miss various important events, Christmas, weddings etc as we can't always get the time off, but we accept that it is part of the job and that we run a 24hr operation, 365 days of the year.
I love my job and understand that times have changed and so we have had to adapt. It hasn't been easy, but I go in each day and give my all as do thousands of my colleagues, be they the crew who continue to work, pilots, TRMs, baggage, ramp,, GTS, PSU, Waterside or wherever. I am proud of the crew who have come into work and of my friends and colleagues who have volunteered as crew.
We have all had it good in BA, no matter what department we are from. The difference is that the majority of us have realised and understood the need for change and it has been difficult. Within passenger service, we have lost hundreds of staff in the past year and the company (along with our union reps) have managed to continue talking and exploring various ways of doing things. It has meant that we have had to work harding and do more than previously, but we are trying.
Lots of us took unpaid leave in the past year, we have lost colleagues through VR and some unfortunately due to other circumstances. We have had cuts in the numbers in certain roles which have increased work loads. We often work several staff short for no extra payments, and yet we haven't gone on strike.
Those of us who work in the terminals, no matter where, also miss various important events, Christmas, weddings etc as we can't always get the time off, but we accept that it is part of the job and that we run a 24hr operation, 365 days of the year.
I love my job and understand that times have changed and so we have had to adapt. It hasn't been easy, but I go in each day and give my all as do thousands of my colleagues, be they the crew who continue to work, pilots, TRMs, baggage, ramp,, GTS, PSU, Waterside or wherever. I am proud of the crew who have come into work and of my friends and colleagues who have volunteered as crew.
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bacabincrew
You said....
How does this work when deciding whether to accept recent offers by the company?
Can Unite decide to decline/accept recent offers by the company or do the 'branches' have the final say?
(I'll read your response tomorrow as I have a busy flight to get ready for back to LHR)
My response to a previous post, not representative of my employer or any other party.
British Airways are actually in dispute with Unite - not BASSA nor CC89 as they are both just 'Branches' of Unite.
Can Unite decide to decline/accept recent offers by the company or do the 'branches' have the final say?
(I'll read your response tomorrow as I have a busy flight to get ready for back to LHR)
My response to a previous post, not representative of my employer or any other party.
Controversial, moi?
Again, LGW model and LHR wages and a PAY RISE for those at the lower end. No comments?
How does this work when deciding whether to accept recent offers by the company?
Can Unite decide to decline/accept recent offers by the company or do the 'branches' have the final say?
Can Unite decide to decline/accept recent offers by the company or do the 'branches' have the final say?
I stand to be corrected if I am wrong.
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Can Unite decide to decline/accept recent offers by the company or do the 'branches' have the final say?
This has been upsetting the Bassa branch ever since, it is a very sore point.
In fact, Bassa then changed their constitution because of this very issue, so now, once the action is under way, it is only Bassa that can call off this strike, not Unite. Unite just have to grimly support them to the bitter end.
You can bet your bottom dollar if Unite were still able to call off the strike and cut a deal, Tony Woodley would have bitten Mr Walsh's arm off for that first offer on the table. In fact, Woodley would have bitten BF's arm off for that offer back in June that promised no New Fleet.
Mr Walsh has always said he gets on well with Woodley. Despite the bluster and soundbites, Woodley is no fool, that is why he called off the last strike, he knows when he's on to a looser. Trouble is, he can't this time.
All this is why Mr Walsh wants to deal with Unite direct, rather than the local branch (Bassa) which is the root of a lot of the problems (for both sides!) because it has become way too personal now. It's Lizanne, the kitchen fitter and 'the Pink Jacketed Militant' vs Walsh at the moment. (except Mr Walsh doesn't see it like that, he is just happy running an airline that is getting away more and more flights, with almost 70-80% of crew breaking the strike at the last count)
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Achievements so far...
I think congratulations are in order. I would like to congratulate BASSAs leadership on the momentous achievements they've selflessly and expertly made on behalf of their members. Cheers to you Len!
I thought I'd also briefly summarise what I see those achievements to be - so that we can all gawk at how well they've done for their members.
Lets see:
1 - Permanent loss of staff travel, so that at least a quarter of them can't get to work
2 - Ensured the need for compulsory redundancies in cabin crew - solely necessary as a result of BASSAs actions
3 - Ensured the reduction to terms and conditions for crew - solely necessary as a result of BASSAs actions
4 - Received progressively, and predictably worse offers from BA - solely necessary as a result of BASSAs actions
5 - Vilified their members in the eyes of public
6 - Gloriously, transparently and unashamedly lied on national television
7 - Completely isolated strikers from the rest of the airline as a whole
8 - Put itself into a position where its power for negotiation is diminishing on a daily basis
9 - Managed to get themselves and the strikers condemned by their own Prime Minister - talk about having some sway!
10 - Brought the airline to a position where in a few months from now, and 5000 volunteers later, BA will be able to run a virtually full schedule, 747s and hot meals included, while their remaining members are standing on a picket line at Hatton Cross not being paid, and waiting for a dreamlike settlement that will never materialise.
So in summary, I think we should all congratulate BASSA's leadership on their excellent and selfless handling of this situation. Your members thank you.
I thought I'd also briefly summarise what I see those achievements to be - so that we can all gawk at how well they've done for their members.
Lets see:
1 - Permanent loss of staff travel, so that at least a quarter of them can't get to work
2 - Ensured the need for compulsory redundancies in cabin crew - solely necessary as a result of BASSAs actions
3 - Ensured the reduction to terms and conditions for crew - solely necessary as a result of BASSAs actions
4 - Received progressively, and predictably worse offers from BA - solely necessary as a result of BASSAs actions
5 - Vilified their members in the eyes of public
6 - Gloriously, transparently and unashamedly lied on national television
7 - Completely isolated strikers from the rest of the airline as a whole
8 - Put itself into a position where its power for negotiation is diminishing on a daily basis
9 - Managed to get themselves and the strikers condemned by their own Prime Minister - talk about having some sway!
10 - Brought the airline to a position where in a few months from now, and 5000 volunteers later, BA will be able to run a virtually full schedule, 747s and hot meals included, while their remaining members are standing on a picket line at Hatton Cross not being paid, and waiting for a dreamlike settlement that will never materialise.
So in summary, I think we should all congratulate BASSA's leadership on their excellent and selfless handling of this situation. Your members thank you.
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CapitanH
Surely, if you're not happy with the direction the union is taking, you stand more chance of moderating future action by staying as members and making your voices heard
oly 034 wrote......
I would add
# 11 Now will be imposing a " Levy" on union contributions from other hard working members to help pay for the fiasco.
( I thought that the Union was dead against any " Imposition " or was that only when it comes from the company ??? )
1 - Permanent loss of staff travel, so that at least a quarter of them can't get to work
2 - Ensured the need for compulsory redundancies in cabin crew - solely necessary as a result of BASSAs actions
3 - Ensured the reduction to terms and conditions for crew - solely necessary as a result of BASSAs actions
4 - Received progressively, and predictably worse offers from BA - solely necessary as a result of BASSAs actions
5 - Vilified their members in the eyes of public
6 - Gloriously, transparently and unashamedly lied on national television
7 - Completely isolated strikers from the rest of the airline as a whole
8 - Put itself into a position where its power for negotiation is diminishing on a daily basis
9 - Managed to get themselves and the strikers condemned by their own Prime Minister - talk about having some sway!
10 - Brought the airline to a position where in a few months from now, and 5000 volunteers later, BA will be able to run a virtually full schedule, 747s and hot meals included, while their remaining members are standing on a picket line at Hatton Cross not being paid, and waiting for a dreamlike settlement that will never materialise
2 - Ensured the need for compulsory redundancies in cabin crew - solely necessary as a result of BASSAs actions
3 - Ensured the reduction to terms and conditions for crew - solely necessary as a result of BASSAs actions
4 - Received progressively, and predictably worse offers from BA - solely necessary as a result of BASSAs actions
5 - Vilified their members in the eyes of public
6 - Gloriously, transparently and unashamedly lied on national television
7 - Completely isolated strikers from the rest of the airline as a whole
8 - Put itself into a position where its power for negotiation is diminishing on a daily basis
9 - Managed to get themselves and the strikers condemned by their own Prime Minister - talk about having some sway!
10 - Brought the airline to a position where in a few months from now, and 5000 volunteers later, BA will be able to run a virtually full schedule, 747s and hot meals included, while their remaining members are standing on a picket line at Hatton Cross not being paid, and waiting for a dreamlike settlement that will never materialise
# 11 Now will be imposing a " Levy" on union contributions from other hard working members to help pay for the fiasco.
( I thought that the Union was dead against any " Imposition " or was that only when it comes from the company ??? )
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Litebulbs....
Again, LGW model and LHR wages and a PAY RISE for those at the lower end. No comments?
With the exception of the new t's & c's (which many companies / industries in the UK are doing) that is exactly what was proposed, and rejected out of hand by your union. Unite accepted this for LGW several years ago.
Would you like to expand on your point?
DW.
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Whilst I think the words bullying and harassment are bandied around a little too freely to encompass anything that the recipient doesn't like, I'm not sure I'd be all that proud of the mob baying at the windows of the Arora.
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" Permanent loss of staff travel, so that at least a quarter of them can't get to work" ?
Ever thought of BUYING a ticket out of salary?
BA EasyJet BMi......National Express etc.
....and of course you have the non-refundable BA Hotlines.
Ever thought of BUYING a ticket out of salary?
BA EasyJet BMi......National Express etc.
....and of course you have the non-refundable BA Hotlines.
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Morning.
A point made by BAcabincrew, way back yesterday, mentioned a 'pilots striking scenario'. Hmm, interesting. I would submit this - if another workforce had to resort to IA then that Council's negotiating team would have presented a case whereby ALL members would have withdrawn their labour. The MASSIVE difference here is that BASSA failed at every hurdle to garner majority support when it came to the actual vinegar stroke of - withdrawal of labour.
It is beyond all reasonable doubt that this dispute is being driven by a personal agenda of the BASSA Branch Chair. Her legacy will be long-lasting in many areas but not as she planned; indeed, her main goal will be missed by a considerable margin.
nurj
Looks like a nice little march. But, I can never fathom why people are so intolerant of those that want to work, who are not members of BASSA, who are not in agreement with the issue of IA.
A point made by BAcabincrew, way back yesterday, mentioned a 'pilots striking scenario'. Hmm, interesting. I would submit this - if another workforce had to resort to IA then that Council's negotiating team would have presented a case whereby ALL members would have withdrawn their labour. The MASSIVE difference here is that BASSA failed at every hurdle to garner majority support when it came to the actual vinegar stroke of - withdrawal of labour.
It is beyond all reasonable doubt that this dispute is being driven by a personal agenda of the BASSA Branch Chair. Her legacy will be long-lasting in many areas but not as she planned; indeed, her main goal will be missed by a considerable margin.
nurj
Looks like a nice little march. But, I can never fathom why people are so intolerant of those that want to work, who are not members of BASSA, who are not in agreement with the issue of IA.
Last edited by nurjio; 30th Mar 2010 at 08:55. Reason: Youtube Video
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bacabincrew
At the moment Cranebank is crammed full of 'temps' training.
Most are returning BA crew. They are on New Fleet t & c's.
Yesterday 78% of EF crew reported, and 58% WW.
In 2 months (by the end of may) BA will have enough crew to run a normal schedule without volunteer crew.
Willie can then make the few remaining strikers ( 2000 - 3000) redundant.
Redundancy pay for someone like you - with 20 years service - will be about 6 months basic pay.
I have just done my second strike flt and have experienced no particular problems. The crew have been mostly BA crew. The 2 temps I have met were great ( BA trained etc), the 2 pilots were extremely keen to do a good job and get on well with the regular crew; which they did.
There was a great atmosphere on board. Change has come , and BA will be a great company again.
We all realised that Bassa have already lost. Now it can only get worse and worse for strikers.
The militants are no longer welcome.
You are the weakest link.............. Goodbye!!
Why will I be on the dole?
Most are returning BA crew. They are on New Fleet t & c's.
Yesterday 78% of EF crew reported, and 58% WW.
In 2 months (by the end of may) BA will have enough crew to run a normal schedule without volunteer crew.
Willie can then make the few remaining strikers ( 2000 - 3000) redundant.
Redundancy pay for someone like you - with 20 years service - will be about 6 months basic pay.
I have just done my second strike flt and have experienced no particular problems. The crew have been mostly BA crew. The 2 temps I have met were great ( BA trained etc), the 2 pilots were extremely keen to do a good job and get on well with the regular crew; which they did.
There was a great atmosphere on board. Change has come , and BA will be a great company again.
We all realised that Bassa have already lost. Now it can only get worse and worse for strikers.
The militants are no longer welcome.
You are the weakest link.............. Goodbye!!
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Bassa need to accept the last offer NOW.
It will only get worse for all crew, particularly the strikers.
Is it only about the politics and egos of the reps and militants.
The strike is not working.
If Bassa really had the best interests of the majority of its members in mind they would negotiate a deal without preconditions.
Do they accept that the amount BA is looking for is valid, because it appears that they do. Then the outstanding issues are to make the changes permanent ( irrelevant to a point because if BA is making record profits in 5 years time we can all re-negotiate) and the big sticking points which are the re-instatement of suspendees and staff travel.
Neither of which is going to happen.
Staff travel will have to wait until some future time perhaps, but the suspensions could be divided in to categories of severity.
Genuinely minor offences , misconduct , could be considered as part of the settlement.
More serious offences ( I hear some may be criminal) will have to go through the whole disciplinary process.
It will only get worse for all crew, particularly the strikers.
Is it only about the politics and egos of the reps and militants.
The strike is not working.
If Bassa really had the best interests of the majority of its members in mind they would negotiate a deal without preconditions.
Do they accept that the amount BA is looking for is valid, because it appears that they do. Then the outstanding issues are to make the changes permanent ( irrelevant to a point because if BA is making record profits in 5 years time we can all re-negotiate) and the big sticking points which are the re-instatement of suspendees and staff travel.
Neither of which is going to happen.
Staff travel will have to wait until some future time perhaps, but the suspensions could be divided in to categories of severity.
Genuinely minor offences , misconduct , could be considered as part of the settlement.
More serious offences ( I hear some may be criminal) will have to go through the whole disciplinary process.
Controversial, moi?
A way forward maybe,you know, that negotiation thing.......
Certainly judging by the amount of CC training that is currently underway I would suggest WW has a master plan. I would be surprised if he has not thought through every possible move by Unite/BASSA from day one.
The uncharitable might say that is the complete opposite of what BASSA has done.
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Re: MrBunker link to YouTube:
From the Union;
- That claims IT is being bullied by management;
- That after only 6 days is resorting to illegal demonstrations;
- That despite suffering no pay cut itself demands other Unite members who have suffered job losses and pay cuts to subsidize its strike;
- That can no longer get itself onto the rolling news channels with 'stunts'
- That is wondering why its 'hotline' phone (yes hotline as in ST, bet you miss those now eh?) to WW is remarkably silent.
- That seems to have disenfranchised itself from 70%+ of its membership who are committed professionals and feel alienated by BASSA's aggressive stance.
- That proposed a 6% paycut for its members (without consulting them) just so the CSD could sit in their office and read the Daily Mail.
- The 30% of CC who are the awkward squad whom many have said 'there is a much better atmosphere at work when they're not there'.
- People stupid enough to be caught on camera participating in an illegal demonstration (Criminal Justice Act 1994) and likely to face disciplinary action when they return to work.