British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Originally Posted by PC767
Eddy, I'd say that your comments about the crapper are unnecessary.
I meant no insult or offense.
You've explained yourself why, as striking crew, I might be inclined to be a little worried. Walsh will, if he wants to (an action I wouldn't agree with), just sack people willy-nilly and pay the compensation deemed appropriate by the courts in three years time (or however long it takes to get there).
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Eddy
If you are referring to the deal last year, yes. I wish we could turn back time. I would have happily accepted it as it meant that future crew would work on existing WW and EF fleets. It would have included the guarantee which I need over my job.
BikerMark
BA will not go bankrupt. BA have been saying on a couple of occasions that the majority of all rostered crew reported for duty in March, May and June. If a new strike goes ahead, BA will be running a 100% schedule according to our CEO.
How could allegedly a small group of strikers make BA go bankrupt when there's such a huge amount of support so that they will operate a full schedule?
If you are referring to the deal last year, yes. I wish we could turn back time. I would have happily accepted it as it meant that future crew would work on existing WW and EF fleets. It would have included the guarantee which I need over my job.
BikerMark
BA will not go bankrupt. BA have been saying on a couple of occasions that the majority of all rostered crew reported for duty in March, May and June. If a new strike goes ahead, BA will be running a 100% schedule according to our CEO.
How could allegedly a small group of strikers make BA go bankrupt when there's such a huge amount of support so that they will operate a full schedule?
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BikerMark.
You are scaremongering. I do not believe a dispute with cabin crew will bring BA down, indeed BA will tell you how well they have coped and will cope in future action. Crikey, during the 'ash disruption' Walsh was quick to tell the world how much money BA held in reserve and how much borrowing we had arranged and therefore could see the ash out. The next week we were back to our very fight for survival.
Indeed, with every move Walsh implys that he can and will see the dispute out. Not the actions of a cash strapped chap. However in doing so he will leave a battered and bitter workforce, not condusive to driving the business forward. Lets be frank. If/when he gets his own way completely cabin crew will not actually leave, as many point out, theres not alot to go to at present.
I just wish he'd put as much effort into finding a solution and bring people onside rather than his policy of alienation and conflict.
You are scaremongering. I do not believe a dispute with cabin crew will bring BA down, indeed BA will tell you how well they have coped and will cope in future action. Crikey, during the 'ash disruption' Walsh was quick to tell the world how much money BA held in reserve and how much borrowing we had arranged and therefore could see the ash out. The next week we were back to our very fight for survival.
Indeed, with every move Walsh implys that he can and will see the dispute out. Not the actions of a cash strapped chap. However in doing so he will leave a battered and bitter workforce, not condusive to driving the business forward. Lets be frank. If/when he gets his own way completely cabin crew will not actually leave, as many point out, theres not alot to go to at present.
I just wish he'd put as much effort into finding a solution and bring people onside rather than his policy of alienation and conflict.
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Eddy, I explained why a few militants may be moved on, and the likely consequences. But to sack up to 6000 crew would be a logistical nightmare, the worse PR stunt ever pulled and causes ruptions for workers throught the country. To UK Plc, a dangerous precedent and therefore objected to.
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So then, why not sack ALL cabin crew? There is no way to tell who voted yes; who voted no. There is no way to tell (without speaking to them - besides people lie about it anyway) who went on strike and who didn't. The cabin crew member who voted yes but went to work during every strike is still guilty of financially hurting (as well as our reputation) the company so isn't the only way to rid the cancer that is festering just to sack ALL cabin crew? Obviously, those that don't belong to a union (about 4000?) could be exempt from being sacked and once the 90 day notice is expired enough people could be hired to replace those gone. Certainly enough people who are currently at the job centre would be up for it? Also, BA could bring back those who accepted VR, if they were interested.
If BA decides to bring sacked (not VR crew) people back it would be on a reduced T&C contract and they would all be NF. The cabin crew has hurt BA very badly; why not hurt the cabin crew back? Serious question!
If BA decides to bring sacked (not VR crew) people back it would be on a reduced T&C contract and they would all be NF. The cabin crew has hurt BA very badly; why not hurt the cabin crew back? Serious question!
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MissM
If you can see that, or even if WW runs it at a lesser capacity, then why lose yourself more money and put your job in serious jeapardy? What for? There's certainly pride in fighting for a good cause and losing, but losing because you won't blame the right people for your situation? Why do that? Some of you are trying to shoot the messenger. What was ever the point in that?
If you can see that, or even if WW runs it at a lesser capacity, then why lose yourself more money and put your job in serious jeapardy? What for? There's certainly pride in fighting for a good cause and losing, but losing because you won't blame the right people for your situation? Why do that? Some of you are trying to shoot the messenger. What was ever the point in that?
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But to sack up to 6000 crew
I don't for one second think Walsh will sack EVERY striker. I suspect the company is clever enough to have monitored places like Crew Forum, the Bassa forum and other mediums to determine who the "trouble makers" (in their [the company's] opinion) are.
Sacking ANY of the strikers will, depending on how Unite/Bassa handles the next ballot, be illegal. So there's nothing more stopping Walsh from hand-picking certain people he really wants to get rid of and then dealing with the court cases (or letting Mr. Williams deal with the court cases) in a few years.
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Well according to Walsh the cabin crew have had little impact.
I think you'll find that sacking or indeed giving 90 days notice to cabin crew who are union members is highly discriminatory and illegal, and I think I'll find that you are a late night troll.
I think you'll find that sacking or indeed giving 90 days notice to cabin crew who are union members is highly discriminatory and illegal, and I think I'll find that you are a late night troll.
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Tiramisu.
I trust you have reported your allegation to the correct authority and not just highlighted it on here.
I trust you have reported your allegation to the correct authority and not just highlighted it on here.
Mr Bunker,
Thank you. Unfortunately when these things happen in CRC in large groups, it's a question of safety in numbers and your word against theirs. However broad shoulders one has, it still hurts.
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I don't think I am necessarily scaremongering.
The issue is simple. If customer confidence is not there and we lose the benefit of whatever fragile recovery is happening, then we have a problem.
We'll also have a problem if the dispute leaves a legacy of bitterness in a significant section of customer facing staff. You can't run a high quality service industry with disaffected and unengaged staff.
The issue is simple. If customer confidence is not there and we lose the benefit of whatever fragile recovery is happening, then we have a problem.
We'll also have a problem if the dispute leaves a legacy of bitterness in a significant section of customer facing staff. You can't run a high quality service industry with disaffected and unengaged staff.
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Dear God, Tirimisu, these things do not happen in large groups in the CRC. What type of impression are you trying to create. I'm a non-striker, I've been to every duty given with either other non-strikers or strikers. I've managed to maintain more than cordial relations with everyone, and have failed to witness baying packs of XXXX's harassing others.
Clearly though you did witness an incident, exaggerated or otherwise, and you have done the correct thing and reported it. I trust the alleged victims felt similarily moved.
Clearly though you did witness an incident, exaggerated or otherwise, and you have done the correct thing and reported it. I trust the alleged victims felt similarily moved.
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I agree with the customer confidence problem. However, whilst BASSA clearly are not helping with customer confidence, it is Walsh's confrontational approach which is stirring the hornets nest. He prodded and got a reaction, but has failed to see how his continued prodding is affecting the business.
He is the senior partner and confidant in this dispute. His reactions and actions drive the union and he must balance his actions against damaging our shattered reputaion further and losing customers in this fragile market.
I stated many months ago, a clever manager could have got their changes through. Walsh isn't clever in that respect, he behaves like a thug which isn't endearing or inspirational, (unless you happen to be a thug as well!).
Just one other point. Can you run a high quality service with cheap and transient staff, such as the 'waterstones' work force envisaged by Francis, who do a couple of years before getting a 'real job.'
He is the senior partner and confidant in this dispute. His reactions and actions drive the union and he must balance his actions against damaging our shattered reputaion further and losing customers in this fragile market.
I stated many months ago, a clever manager could have got their changes through. Walsh isn't clever in that respect, he behaves like a thug which isn't endearing or inspirational, (unless you happen to be a thug as well!).
Just one other point. Can you run a high quality service with cheap and transient staff, such as the 'waterstones' work force envisaged by Francis, who do a couple of years before getting a 'real job.'
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I think I'll find that you are a late night troll.
I've been to every duty given with either other non-strikers or strikers. I've managed to maintain more than cordial relations with everyone
I post on a very popular internet forum quoting my real name and real location. It's not hard to figure out who I am.
Tiramisu, though covert on the forum, is well known through other means as having supported the company recently.
You.... Christ only knows who you are!?!? You've done the right thing and I often wish I'd stayed anonymous like you've done. But the damage, sadly, is done.
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Cowards
There is a number of reported cases of a bunch of strikers which delights in making life uncomfortable for non-strikers. Usually this happens downroute though it can happen in CRC. Let's be quite clear that they are cowards, like the gang you might have encountered in your school days, which intimidates others - but only when they have numerical superiority.
I make no apology for using the word coward. They are a disgrace. Their behaviour must be reported on every occasion and, hopefully, some may get sacked.
I make no apology for using the word coward. They are a disgrace. Their behaviour must be reported on every occasion and, hopefully, some may get sacked.
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Mr Bunker.
This evening there was an update posted on the BASSA web site which included a letter from Unite. I presume this is an online copy of the letter slowly heading my way.
There is a line;
2. The withdrawal of all unwarranted disciplinary measures.
The inclusion of the word unwarranted needs explanation by Unite. Have Unite accepted that some disciplinary measures were warranted? Had it just been the withdrawl of disciplinary measures, then I would have been in disagreement.
This evening there was an update posted on the BASSA web site which included a letter from Unite. I presume this is an online copy of the letter slowly heading my way.
There is a line;
2. The withdrawal of all unwarranted disciplinary measures.
The inclusion of the word unwarranted needs explanation by Unite. Have Unite accepted that some disciplinary measures were warranted? Had it just been the withdrawl of disciplinary measures, then I would have been in disagreement.
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Eddy.
I don't believe you are a troll old boy! I was refering to the post suggesting all union members regardless of whether they striked should be sacked or given 90 days notice.
Tiramisu.
I thought you witness and alleged event today? not that you were the subject of the alleged event.
As for your copies of post, well they are clearly pathetic. Where are they from? I've never stated I agree with the personal attacks and bullying, I don't, but your description of life in the CRC was seriously wrong. You imply gang warfare. Which was why I replied.
Just a thought, I haven't a clue who either of you are, nor am I too interested knowing. Sorry not to prick the egos. But if you are as high profile as you state and your profile is because of your strong views then you will attract attention. It happens in public life, ask the reps about their negative press exposure. If you have strong views and are willing to air them publicly, then you must accept that not everyone will agree and may tell you so.
Bullying though, Not acceptable.
I don't believe you are a troll old boy! I was refering to the post suggesting all union members regardless of whether they striked should be sacked or given 90 days notice.
Tiramisu.
I thought you witness and alleged event today? not that you were the subject of the alleged event.
As for your copies of post, well they are clearly pathetic. Where are they from? I've never stated I agree with the personal attacks and bullying, I don't, but your description of life in the CRC was seriously wrong. You imply gang warfare. Which was why I replied.
Just a thought, I haven't a clue who either of you are, nor am I too interested knowing. Sorry not to prick the egos. But if you are as high profile as you state and your profile is because of your strong views then you will attract attention. It happens in public life, ask the reps about their negative press exposure. If you have strong views and are willing to air them publicly, then you must accept that not everyone will agree and may tell you so.
Bullying though, Not acceptable.
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PC767,
Please don't patronise me with your reply. You obviously haven't been on the recieving end like Eddy and myself. It happened to me today and several times since the strike.
For what it's worth, I judge all crew, strikers and non-strikers on their performance on board the aircraft, not their views. I've also completed as many BRAVOS on striking crews as I have, on non-striking crews. It's a pity some of the militant minority don't behave as well as others.
It was also witnessed by another crew member who was with me at the time. Please tell me what you think of this. Does this create a false impression as well?
Please don't patronise me with your reply. You obviously haven't been on the recieving end like Eddy and myself. It happened to me today and several times since the strike.
For what it's worth, I judge all crew, strikers and non-strikers on their performance on board the aircraft, not their views. I've also completed as many BRAVOS on striking crews as I have, on non-striking crews. It's a pity some of the militant minority don't behave as well as others.
It was also witnessed by another crew member who was with me at the time. Please tell me what you think of this. Does this create a false impression as well?
Harry’s no1 Post subject:
Posted: 06 May 2010 13:48
You'll recognise the SCABS right away as they have 3 eyes and have a very unpleasant stench coming off them....
DontTouchTheTrolleyDARLING Post subject: Re: FIRST FLIGHT WITH SCABIN CREW
Posted: 06 May 2010 13:58
dont worry,. they will need your help one day.. situation. a burning aircraft down the back.. scab caught up in balls of fire saying help me help me..
reaction.. burn you bastard burn. poor scabin crew!
Posted: 06 May 2010 13:48 You'll recognise the SCABS right away as they have 3 eyes and have a very unpleasant stench coming off them....
DontTouchTheTrolleyDARLING Post subject: Re: FIRST FLIGHT WITH SCABIN CREWPosted: 06 May 2010 13:58 dont worry,. they will need your help one day.. situation. a burning aircraft down the back.. scab caught up in balls of fire saying help me help me..
reaction.. burn you bastard burn. poor scabin crew!
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PC767,
If you read the BASSA forum, those posts were from there posted by the two individuals with the names on those dates. They were actually in the Press and a colleague who saw them emailed them to me. They are were posted by real crew, both BASSA members allowed by the moderators to stay there for some time until recently deleted, not a work of fiction at all.
As for the incident today, you would have to be there to witness it and I rest my case, no ego at all. Just a sad appalling incident.
If you read the BASSA forum, those posts were from there posted by the two individuals with the names on those dates. They were actually in the Press and a colleague who saw them emailed them to me. They are were posted by real crew, both BASSA members allowed by the moderators to stay there for some time until recently deleted, not a work of fiction at all.
As for the incident today, you would have to be there to witness it and I rest my case, no ego at all. Just a sad appalling incident.
