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British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

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British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

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Old 24th May 2010, 18:37
  #3581 (permalink)  
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Not sure the strikers are at BFC. From the Daily Mail photos, the 2 I know well have not yet had to report on a strike day (One of them would be very surprised at her friends who were reporting on 1st day of last strikes though.). Indeed its been said elsewhere that at least one non striker was on the open top bus outside the high court last week. With friends like these....
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Old 24th May 2010, 18:46
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Thank You.

There are Cabin Crew who are working through all of this and have from the start.

There are those who have returned to work for their own reason, but whatever the reasons, they have returned to work.

There are those, from a great many departments across the airline, who feel strongly enough about the dispute to have volunteered to assist those CC not striking to fly as much of the schedule as possible.

There are those like myself who, whether we have volunteered or not (and a great many have and have not been required), who do whatever they can to keep their own departments running smoothly while their colleagues take to the skies and who may also volunteer to give up their own spare time to volunteer in call centres and in the terminals supporting passengers.

To all of these staff who are keeping our airline flying and to the passengers who have kept faith with BA with patience and understanding... I am sure I speak for most of our company when I say
THANK YOU..

You are all a credit to the company and what we as a workforce stand for in our everyday roles and I for one am EXTREMELY PROUD to be working with you and for you and remain proud to work for our airline.

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Old 24th May 2010, 18:51
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Topbunk

Reading your post, i find myself wondering if all the bad feeling is on the cabin crew side?
A genuine question, as you seem determined to punish the strikers.
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Old 24th May 2010, 19:19
  #3584 (permalink)  
 
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I'm still very upset with the fact a group of co-workers is putting my lifelyhood in danger over a cause that seems so unjust (Their Union should have done a better job explaning the rest of the company of why their cause is just).

But saying that by having ST removed permanantly this will split the workforce forever creating a unhealthty situation.

A punishement should be short and done with and not lasting forever.

The problem is that WW and BASSA created a "Status Quo" over this since one of the party's has to loose face now.

The collegues backing BA don't think it's fair to give the strikers back their full ST benefits.

But how about if the strikers would be given the chance to buy back their Seniority???

It would make the punishement more fair and would prevent an everlasting division between strikers and non-strikers.

After all when this is over we need to work together undivided!
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Old 24th May 2010, 19:37
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On my flight today 7 out of 10 cabin crew turned up for work. One voluntary cabin crew member was used.

All the crew were great except for one steward who had been on strike the previous time. He was a bit surly the whole flight and at the end said to the VCC, "don't give up your day job!" The VCC cheerily replied she had temporarily given up her day job to ensure she had a day job to go back to in the future.

Great riposte.
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Old 24th May 2010, 19:37
  #3586 (permalink)  
 
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To be honest CB13. I can't see the BASSA reps accepting anything less than an unconditional return of staff travel. I don't think they ( striking CC ) understand the depth of feeling against them on this strike fromwithin BA. Even from fellow UNITE members at LHR. There would be hell to pay if it was given back. And at last we have a well balanced and factual view on BBC this evening from Jamie Bowden on how things are going.
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Old 24th May 2010, 19:40
  #3587 (permalink)  
 
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ST

Willy made it abundantly clear that they would lose ST if they went on strike.
He's offered it back less the seniority, that should be enough.
If they have it returned in full, not only will they claim the moral victory, but when (not if) they act up again, the threat of the removal will ring hollow.
Now, I've hardened up over this. No pussyfooting around here, they are out to jeapordise OUR future OUR pension, showing total disrespect to OUR customers. They should not be employed within the company. Let this strike run its course (short term pain=long term gain). We will ALL do well without this disloyal bunch. All legal means should be used for the militants removal.
ENOUGH is ENOUGH is ENOUGH.
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Old 24th May 2010, 20:17
  #3588 (permalink)  
 
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More on staff travel

I listened to Jeremy Vine this afternoon on radio 2,when several cabin crew strikers had called in explaining the emotional hardship they were experiencing and how the removal of staff travel was tantamount to bullying unfair...etc (they did not mention that they had several memos fromThe BA Ifce team warning them of the removal of staff travel should they choose to participate).Then, they argued that commuters were especially affected as they were recruited under the auspices of being able to commute in order to get to work.....
Mr Boyd for Unite also articulated this point also on BBc this am)

Well having worked incabin crew recruitment and selection for several years I can catergorically state that we remind candidates who reside over seas that the stipulation to function as ACC is to ensure you reside within 90mins of your airport base.
Indeed when we had a campaighn years ago in Madrid we emphasised the importance of relocating to the uk especially if they were to be given a eurofleet or midfleet allocation if sucessful.Again it was made clear that if they choose to live furthur afield, as a large proportion of cabin crew do....thats fine as long as they make adequate provisions to get to work on time. It would be ludicrous for us to stipulate that staff travel will ensure that they could get to work ok and thereby minimise the expense on their pockets...when staff travel is provided after a probationary period of satisfactory service within the airline and secondly, with all the risks associated with disruption to our airline due to weather,industrial action not only with our airline but as has been the case in the past ATC,terrorist alerts full capacity etc...it would simply be unprofessional to suggest this.
I can only speak from my own expereince in cabin crew recruitment and selection...where I have been part of the team for over 14 years.
Before anyone does....do not blame me for the individuals who are renting Bedfont!!!!

Last edited by skylight; 24th May 2010 at 23:03.
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Old 24th May 2010, 20:25
  #3589 (permalink)  
 
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ranger07,

I agree 100%! ENOUGH with these saboteurs and their idea of what is best for the company. Each one of us has made a sacrifice within our departments. CC has cost this company roughly £180 million (cost of the strikes using £100 million as the estimate for the present one). I believe the company should recoup that money by offering 90 days notice to all CC (have to be fair to all). That is the ONLY way to weed out those that want to destroy BA.

Topbunk is absobloodylutely correct...the reward is having a job, end of! CC should have accepted one crew down and made their contribution because having a job is better than none at all. Funny, the concept of "something is better than nothing" is a lesson I learned at the age of three!

Give back ST to the strikers...no way!

Happy to say that as VCC I wasn't needed today so for all CC that reported...
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Old 24th May 2010, 20:29
  #3590 (permalink)  
 
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Well, a very interesting text today from BA that certainly won't make it onto BASSA's website:
Monday OP going well with high cc report rate. Large volume of EOT this weekend due release of pilot VCC-pls Back BA by picking up EOT where possible
And what does that actually mean, and please, BASSA forum members, feel free to copy this across to your balanced and respectful forum, but please, copy it in its entirety; well, it means that there is a plan to stand-up even more flights over the weekend, as the company can now plan based on todays turnout. EOT is Electronic Open Time, by the way, a means whereby trips can be crewed from an online system showing any available trips, something that perhaps could have come your way had BASSA actually chosen to negotiate rather than stonewall. Oh, they'd never have got that by negotiation, I hear you say! Hmmmm, how do you think it came our way? Yes, some serious negotiation, lasting more than a year, but here it is.

Someone on your forum talked about the massive pay-rise pilots achieved by going on to "hourly rate." Again, something to ask your union about. For a start, what ACTUALLY happened was that we saw the future back in 2003, took the entire spend on pay/allowances etc., put it into one big pot, divided it down with linear increments and eh Voila! Some did well, some lost out, but we ended up with a system that was fair for all, did away with destination allowances, and was tax-efficient.

Why do you think BASSA have avoided such a move over the years? Could it be something to do with the senior reps grabbing the high-allowance trips? Have you noticed how relatively junior the pilots are on NRT these days, since it doesn't pay and is, let's face it, not the nicest of destinations? See that hit from the tax-man earlier this year? Well, BALPA managed to negotiate an intelligent way to minimise that. BASSA didn't even realise it was an issue, and when it happened blamed the company. And BALPA.

Funnily enough, going back to the hourly-rate restructuring, it was BA who wanted to maintain a degree of "incentive" by keeping a percentage of pay related to flying hours, whilst BALPA wanted a flat-rate regardless. Methinks that would have been the same had BASSA actually had the intelligence to negotiate cleverly. Unfortunately, clever does not come into that arena, the closest you get is your own favourite barrack-room lawyer, who is wrong more often than she is right. But at least is dogged, and way more forensic than ANY of your reps, even if the glasses are tinted in BASSA's colours.

Have any of you bothered to ask about the offers in place from the company last year that included share-options and no new fleet? Because you were never told about them from BASSA. I know how much you dislike BALPA, but one of their strengths is questioning, and if any rep of ours had refused to spell-out exactly what was on offer then there would have been a revolt. Against that representative. I see no similar level of debate in BASSA. In fact, I see no debate, just blind acceptance, un-questioning praise for the reps, and a culture where raising the merest hint of dissension from the party line is stamped on immediately, personally and with insults towards that person's intelligence.

Oh yes, and one final point: there is NO representive for VCC. There is no-one or group or leader of a group saying to Willie Walsh that there will be a withdrawal of support if Staff Travel is given back to strikers. That, and other lies, and I will say it again, and even bold it, that and other LIES from BASSA are designed to deflect you from the true failings in this dispute, and that is how you have been represented. Holley and co. will receive the letters soon enough on that, I hear, but they are responsible for this shocking state of affairs.

Ever wonder why BASSA leadership are quiet in the constant demonising of their opponent? In the demonising of pilots? In the demonising of volunteers? Not withstanding Duncan Holley's ("Admin." to the BASSA forum) lies. It is simply because it suits their agenda, and the majority of BASSA forum posters have swallowed that agenda hook, line and sinker.

Fortunately for the company, the majority will prevail. I wish you well in your ill-thought out dispute, though you are wrong, and have been mislead. Your anger should be directed at Holley, Malone, Everard and the rest of the reps who have so grossly failed you. Any settlement you now receive will be so much worse than one reached through mature negotiation. Negotiation which your reps spent outside the room punching each other, in case you haven't forgotten, or haven't read the december judgement. Again, did you actually get to see the offers that were turned down by non-attendance, beligerance and the usual finger-in-ears negotiation style?

Satan

PS As I said, feel free to post this in its entirety on the BASSA forum. It will be shot down by the usual "vile person" rhetoric. So be it. Your ire is being channeled away from where it should be. And truth hurts, somewhat.
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Old 24th May 2010, 20:35
  #3591 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by draglift
All the crew were great except for one steward who had been on strike the previous time. He was a bit surly the whole flight and at the end said to the VCC, "don't give up your day job!" The VCC cheerily replied she had temporarily given up her day job to ensure she had a day job to go back to in the future.
I suspect this is going to be happening a lot.... People who went on strike the first time around will start filtering back in because they can't afford more time off. Yet because they went off work at some point, they feel they are better than those who didn't. They feel that ONE period of striking means they are a striker. But they aren't. One period, two periods, even three periods of striking become totally irrelevant when someone shows up for work.

We all have personal reasons for coming in.

But I challenge anyone - anyone - on one of my flights during a strike to have a go at me or anyone else I'm working with because they'd previously gone on strike but had to come back for the money.
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Old 24th May 2010, 20:58
  #3592 (permalink)  
 
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How many BASSA members left in BA?

How many of the BA CC are now members of BASSA?

Is it published anywhere?

Just wondering?

PS I do understand this changes on a daily basis

Reason I ask is I have a feeling that many CC have resigned from the Union, so can not strike anymore? Also, any further ballots are likely to represent less %CC but a higher vote for IA as I am sure those that have lost ST will hang-in there ?
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Old 24th May 2010, 21:04
  #3593 (permalink)  
 
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Ranger07
Willy made it abundantly clear that they would lose ST if they went on strike.
He's offered it back less the seniority, that should be enough.
If they have it returned in full, not only will they claim the moral victory, but when (not if) they act up again, the threat of the removal will ring hollow.
Now, I've hardened up over this. No pussyfooting around here, they are out to jeapordise OUR future OUR pension, showing total disrespect to OUR customers. They should not be employed within the company. Let this strike run its course (short term pain=long term gain). We will ALL do well without this disloyal bunch. All legal means should be used for the militants removal.
ENOUGH is ENOUGH is ENOUGH.
Well, I've had a post saying that I agree 100% with what you say deleted (presumably for some afters!) - so just let's leave it at that - I agree 100%
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Old 24th May 2010, 21:08
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mjc507 - I believe the company should recoup that money by offering 90 days notice to all CC (have to be fair to all).

Like other colleagues on here I am not after reward, I do not believe I should benefit financially or otherwise from chosing not to strike. But frankly you are an idiotic protaganist making comments such as the one above. If your views are representative then perhaps I've made a big mistake and should join the bring BA down crowd, because frankly with 90 days notice of a new and therefore inferior contract I'd have nothing to lose.
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Old 24th May 2010, 21:12
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How many of the BA CC are now members of BASSA?

Is it published anywhere?

Just wondering?
It's below 10.000 - from what I can remember from the last time I checked it was around 9.800 - not possible any longer to see the membership number since they removed that information from their website not too long ago. I wonder why...
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Old 24th May 2010, 21:13
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BA Cabin Crew Dispute

There are two issues that this strike is about that, when considered, would be enough for anyone to want to take strike action, in any industry, let alone cabin crew.

They are as follows:

1. The taking away of the working position of cabin purser on long haul aircraft, and for what, if any, compensation for individuals affected? Otherwise known as 'imposition'.

In other words 50% less people required so those who are pursers spend more time at home losing out on valuable flying pay and various commisions.
Some of these people have been with the company for 35+ years. What a grand way to treat people who have given their loyal service for so long.


Why didn't Mr Walsh offer them a golden handshake of some kind to part company instead of treating valuable and loyal employees in this way.
The few million it might have cost would be peanuts compared to the vast amounts lost through this whole affair, chartering aircraft, loss of customers to other carriers etc.


2. The formation of a new low cost fleet using cheaper labour and contracts with much reduced terms and conditions.
This would be fine if only Mr Walsh & Co. could give some form of protection, to those on older contracts, in the form of guarantees he will not overuse these employees to insidiously fill their positions over time.


Everyone should be scared over the latter point, because with further European integration, and unchecked economic migration, down the line we will all be much worse off.
This includes those pilots, cabin crew, and ground staff who have volunteered to work in place of striking cabin crew.


Please step back from the precipice, and look at the long term, big picture.
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Old 24th May 2010, 21:16
  #3597 (permalink)  
 
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wonder who the source was?

Union has been destroyed by British Airways, admits top official - Times Online

guess it will be published tomorrow.
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Old 24th May 2010, 21:17
  #3598 (permalink)  
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Mods please dont remove. I have no axe to grind. This is a view from the Telegraph.

Good Luck to all.

If it were not so serious, the farcical collapse of the weekend talks intended to avert a strike of cabin crew at BA would have been laughable. Despite the sensitive nature of negotiations, Derek Simpson, the joint general secretary of the Unite union, thought it a good idea to give regular updates on their progress by tweeting, as if this were somehow any different from shouting the odds out of the window. Then a gaggle of Left-wingers from the Socialist Workers Party, something it was surprising to discover still exists, invaded the office where the talks were taking place, forcing their suspension. In the midst of the mayhem stood a bemused Willie Walsh, BA's chief executive, wondering what on earth was going on. Thousands of passengers whose travel plans will now be disrupted – and many more thinking of flying with the carrier over the summer, but now won't – must have looked on appalled.
The Unite union, and especially the British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association (BASSA), who have taken the concept of mindless militancy to a whole new level, appears not to care that its company is making heavy losses (£1 billion over the past two years) or that the economic climate necessitates the sort of reforms Mr Walsh was proposing. The key, if not sole, demand of the would-be strikers now appears to be the restoration of perks that were withdrawn as a result of the previous stoppage, suggesting BASSA's original complaints have either been dealt with or dropped. It simply defies common sense for BA's cabin crew, who are far better paid than most of their counterparts, to contemplate further damaging the business and their own job prospects. Even now, at such a late hour, it might be possible to mitigate the worst impact of this damaging dispute – but the long-term damage to BA could be incalculable.
 
Old 24th May 2010, 21:17
  #3599 (permalink)  
 
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Winston, numbers are still published.Just been on the website and it shows 9937, going down every day.
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Old 24th May 2010, 21:20
  #3600 (permalink)  
 
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There's an awful lot on this forum about cabin crew going into work because of loss of pay and ST. That just isn't true! I'm actually down route and haven't had to go into work opposing the strike (although I would have still gone in) because my roster didn't put me in that position. Many crew, and all of my friends are opposing the strike because we are anti - BASSA. I'm down route but resigned my BASSA membership because I don't believe in them any more. Do we actually have your support, or are you just anti-cabin crew?

I want an end to this action. I support BA. I'm not anti any BA employee who is working for the good of BA. How many of you are with me?
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