British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[fly12345]

Juan, which bit don t you understand or have problems negotiating or accepting??

Unite has repeatedly moved the goalposts and is not interested in settling the dispute. The union knows our latest offer addresses all the concerns it has raised during 15 months of negotiations and that we have compromised many times in an effort to get a resolution.

Tony Woodley himself has said that our final offer “on many points represents an improvement”.

During these talks, we have:

* offered the partial reversal of crew complements, despite a High Court ruling in our favour
* agreed to future promotions and transfers on current contracts for current crew
* given a written assurance about the allocation of routes and aircraft between fleets
* given assurances to protect the pay, terms and conditions for our current crew
* changed our position on pay to guarantee RPI rises for two years, on top of increments
* agreed to the return of staff travel to crew who went on strike, subject to certain conditions

[Eddy]

Good luck today, Juan. Sincerely.

[ranger07]

June 12th

Bet there are many unemployed cabin crew from bankrupt carriers that await with interest (and sheer anger). A little refresher training, then we have non militant hard working crew again, that will fit in nicely with those operating today and the next few days.

Let's get this carrier up and running, sideline those that think they don't need to fall in line, the customers also will then realise that these are (were) no more than left wing hot heads with their own agenda. You've lost guys, we know it, the customers know it, the public know it-when will YOU?

[LD12986]

Not correct. We have accepted the need to reduce costs as a community but without negotiation it is the wrong way to go about business. If Walsh and his cronies actually realised this then we would not be in dispute...and I would not be trudging up to Bedfont again!

So why did BASSA pass a motion of no negotiation to permanent savings based on a show of hands at Sandown last year?

[Wirbelsturm]

So why did BASSA pass a motion of no negotiation to permanent savings based on a show of hands at Sandown last year?

Because they wanted to 'loan' their goodwill and generosity to the company for 2 years and then wanted it all back plus interest. BASSA never, ever offered permanent cost savings and those that were offered as 'temporary cuts for temporary problems (i.e. the worst recession since the great depression)' never stood up to financial scrutiny.

And now you 'trust' these people to make decisions for you?

Madness.

Seems the strike threat by the most important department in BA, who ARE BA, isn't having that much of an impact. I would hazard a guess that the majority of the more well balanced, informed and educated Cabin Crew have seen the BASSA power struggle for exactly what it is.

See you on the front line!

[Chuchinchow]

fly12345 (#3562, and again in #3573)

Hello fly12345,

You have told us twice in rapid succession that, inter alia,

Tony Woodley himself has said that our final offer “on many points represents an improvement”.

During these talks, we have:

* offered the partial reversal of crew complements, despite a High Court ruling in our favour
* agreed to future promotions and transfers on current contracts for current crew
* given a written assurance about the allocation of routes and aircraft between fleets, etc

My questions are:

* just who are "we" in this case?

* are you Willie Walsh, posting incognito?

[luke77]

I think this is the end-game.

It takes 8 crew minimum to man a 777 during a strike.

vcc are now trained on the 744.

Are Cranebank still churning volunteers out?

The next 3 weeks will see an increased operation IMHO and, if the strike lasts that long, the demise of BASSA

The clock ticks (12 June) and it just gets worse for the BASSA militants who are urging people on at the cliff-edge

Vote with your feet and go to work

[flybymerchant]

Juan

Not correct. We have accepted the need to reduce costs as a community but without negotiation it is the wrong way to go about business. If Walsh and his cronies actually realised this then we would not be in dispute...and I would not be trudging up to Bedfont again!

Juan....why do you pretend not to remember the damning report & the damning result of the court case between BA and BASSA over EXACTLY WHAT YOU CLAIM TO BE FIGHTING OVER?!?!?!!!!!

The British Judiciary System High Court NOT ONLY concluded that BASSA had NOT NEGOTIATED for well over a year, BUT ALSO that British Airways HAD NO CHOICE in its financial state other than to IMPOSE CHANGES.

The High Court Judge also went out of his way in his summary to say how FAIR AND PROPORTINATE these imposed NON CONTRACTUAL changes were!!!!!!!

Now, come on Juan.....don't let's beat about the bush. Have you really forgotten that black and white legal judgement and ruling that blows your entire case for murdering BA out of the water, or are you REALLY only going on strike and threatening our jobs and futures because BASSA were annoyed that BA made minor, critically necessary, non-contractual changes (fact) without all the usual, but totally unnecessary, hand-holding to placate BASSAs unbelievable ego?

[fly12345]

Churchinchow, I am not WW much taller and depending on personal taste much better looking but I completely agree and support the latest offer that WW has offered Unite, it is a fair and acceptable offer that should have been accepted when offered instead of engaging in this insane, damaging, immoral fight.
My repeating of posts it is just a simple gesture to highlight that a solution was/is possible but unfortunately everyone is propagandizing their own version and interpretation of the facts when in reality an achievable, common sense, solution was and still is on the table.

[flybymerchant]

and Juan

We have accepted the need to reduce costs as a community

Shouldn't that be, "We have FINALLY accepted the need to save costs as a community, after ignoring the company deadline and sticking our fingers in our ears for over a year when BA was bleeding money. We refused to negotiate on ANY CHANGE and we refused to accept the global recession and failed to look at the company books. Why should we change for the first time in 30 years? Let the other departments take the hit like they always do, their painful cuts can support our wasteful and greedy excesses, just like always. Of course, when we as a community FINALLY took our fingers out of our ears and realised there actually was a crippling and potentially fatal recession on...we took the moral high road- we refused to settle our portion of the bill and stuck those fingers up at the CEO, at the management team, at all the other departments and work groups (especially the nasty pilots) in BA...we also took great delight in sticking fingers up at our fare paying customers and even at our own cabin crew colleagues (the very small minority who voted against us) and indeed anyone who dares to question why I earn over twice that of a nurse, with half the qualifications, and only having to do half the work? They don't know just how tough it can be, let's boycott the hospitals next"

[Wwyvern]

I urge caution in talking about the value of ST to individuals. It might prompt Her Majestie's Revenue to revisit their argument to tax ST. They looked at this at least once before, but decided against it then.

The new Chancellor is desperate to identify taxes he can levy.

[CurlyWurly]

Is there any word about how many crew have shown up?

[vee-tail-1]

On going BBC R4 discussion on 'The Choice is Yours'

Post: "When companies are led by such awful chief execs as BA's. is it any wonder we have industrial disputes?"

Response: Well that 'awful' chief exec is backed by all BA staff except those CC led by BASSA.
Cost cutting, pay freezes, reduced staff levels, voluntary redundancy, changed and more flexible work patterns, and a sense that no one owes us a living. That is the attitude of those of us who are trying to save our airline led by W Walsh.
Remember also that many CC are working, and do not support the left wing BASSA hot heads, who would rather destroy BA than change their entrenched working practices.

[Wirbelsturm]

By all legal means. Word on Joe Public Avenue states that they will never return to BA.

If these disloyal troublemakers are dismissed from our airline, maybe, just maybe, we will have a future.

Whilst in the heat of the moment many would agree I think you are tarring with a wide brush.

Management, over the years, have covered themselves in something far from resembling glory. That must be taken into account. When we get to a scenario where some crew won't listen to BA, because BASSA tell them not to, they can only act on the distorted information their twisted Union feeds them (see the above posts about pilots withdrawing support over ST for a classic example).

Whilst they could be described as being a little misguided I wouldn't describe all of them as being militant either.

The BASSA board aren't interested in the CC any more. They have lined their nests, most have second jobs or run part time and Duncan Holley walked from his BA job to a full time Unite position for being such a good comrade. They have nothing to lose. They want to fight this for their own personal glory and the ability to retire into the sunset stating they have screwed over one of the worlds biggest brands in the name of the Unionistic Ideal. The BASSA board will be welcomed into the Unite fold as comrades in arms and the rest of the CC and BA will be welcomed into the Conservatives new Job Application scheme.

What a glorious end.

Get rid of the loose canon BASSA. Let TW and Unite agree a deal. Cut the militants loose and lets get BA back flying properly.

[Bees Knees]

A question please

What about the CC who didn't have to strike but are still strong BASSA members? Will the length of the current strike be sufficient for them all to show their hands - do they really support it or not?

I am acquainted with someone who was not rostered on for the 7 day strikes so still have ST ('although we never use it anyway as it's rubbish so don't care if we lose it')

I believe she was rostered for a trip or two over the next 3 weeks but seems to have gone off on sick leave now........

Which begs the question, what about those who called in sick instead of striking or working? Is it fair to their colleagues (either strikers or workers)?

[ranger07]

Is there any word about how many crew have shown up?

There was a report earlier on from SKY, they stated that there were Cabin Crew 'on their way', however, from that report, it did'nt appear too busy with the brief camera swing.

Not sure how much coverage there will be with the current broadcasting of government cuts. That of course will be of no significance to the BFC brigade with their 'reality exempt certificates'.

[stormin norman]

So,here we are again,12 months down the road and nothing solved.The airline is losing £1m + a day and is internally tearing itself to pieces.


Is there another Lord king looking for work at the moment ?

[bobmij]

Spending Cuts

I'm just listening to the governments plan on spending cuts for the future. Anyone who believes that they are immune from savings cuts needs to listen to this speach. Notably, travel and in particular first class travel, has been singled out as a target for cuts. In fact, it was announced that there will be no first class travel at government level and scrutiny for those that use premium fares. From this I can only conclude that the revenue BA has traditionaly enjoyed from this source will be cut dramaticaly.


Quote from George Osbourne

The years of government sector plenty are over

Please draw your own conclusions from this.

Probably not a useful speach to be made on a day when you are striking over maintaining T's and C's!

[report call sign]

06:45 BA724 GENEVA AIRBORNE 0647 Terminal five
06:50 BA812 COPENHAGEN AIRBORNE 0701 Terminal five
06:50 CX7191 COPENHAGEN AIRBORNE 0701 Terminal five
07:10 BA552 ROME AIRBORNE 0728 Terminal five
07:10 BA678 ISTANBUL AIRBORNE 0732 Terminal five
07:10 BA710 ZURICH AIRBORNE 0721 Terminal five
07:10 CX7215 ZURICH AIRBORNE 0721 Terminal five
07:20 BA936 DUSSELDORF TAXIED 0743 Terminal five
07:20 BA990 BERLIN AIRBORNE 0735 Terminal five
07:20 CX7141 DUSSELDORF TAXIED 0743 Terminal five
07:20 CX7181 BERLIN AIRBORNE 0735 Terminal five
07:20 QF3451 DUSSELDORF TAXIED 0743 Terminal five
07:20 QF3619 BERLIN AIRBORNE 0735 Terminal five
07:25 BA304 PARIS CDG TAXIED 0729 Terminal five
07:25 QF3415 PARIS CDG TAXIED 0729 Terminal five
07:40 BA564 MILAN-LINATE TAXIED 0743 Terminal five
07:45 BA342 NICE GATE CLOSED Terminal five
07:45 CX7231 NICE GATE CLOSED Terminal five
07:45 QF3573 NICE GATE CLOSED Terminal five
07:50 BA948 MUNICH GATE OPEN Terminal five
07:50 CX7161 MUNICH GATE OPEN Terminal five
07:50 QF3557 MUNICH GATE OPEN Terminal five
07:55 BA854 PRAGUE LAST CALL Terminal five
07:55 CX7121 PRAGUE LAST CALL Terminal five

This is info from Heathrow Airport website for BA departures scheduled to leave before now.

Seems everything's working.

exactly Ed

I have spoken to a contact in T5, only ONE CSD not turned up so far this morning out of all published flights to op, ALSO some 767 reinstated, more crews turning up than last time
BEDFONT requesting more people join them, Wonder why
OH DEAR OH DEAR

BBC NEWS BREAKING NEWS
Saying the union are quite clearly on the back foot!!!!

[Caribbean Boy]

Support at Hatton Cross

Just saw a BBC News report where a reporter at Hatton X said that there were fewer people than last time, but Unite says that this is a long haul strike.

There was footage of a tour bus leaving with pro-strike crew.

She also interviewed Duncan Holley and asked him why it was that BA turned up at ACAS yesterday but Unite didn't. He didn't really have an answer to that. He also said that the travel concessions and seniority were really important for those living in places like Newcastle, Glasgow and Manchester. He said that Willie Walsh is being vindictive in withdrawing those concessions.