British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[pcf]

you are so right Ottergirl - all this has been covered many times over the years - new managers think they have come up with something new ....but why is this being raised now?

[Reargunner]

ottergirl, you made me all nostalgic. I remember team flying in the FIP too. I did once fly with my CSD (accidentally, from a stby).

Maybe this new crew tracking software will make it more feasable now?

I'm pretty sure that when it is a choice between the economic scheduling if trips, so as to not waste crew, and having performance assessed and evaluated by someone they have met previously, only one is going to be a clear priority.

Mind you, the full performance plan actually involves the CSD taking over the role of the crew manager, I think...wasn't it in the same documentation that you do days in the office? I took it that you will do your 900 flying hours and then manage the admin on top?

You're gonna be awfully busy!
Broom?
Backside?

[pcf]

so sad for everyone

Sorry I am changing the subject -
Reading the BASSA website is so sad that members are desperate to communicate with reps.
I am reading the pprune posts and feel you are anti Union crew/pilots BA employees and whilst I am anti-strike I feel very strongly about our fellow colleagues, they really believe in BASSA and are truly committed.

Reading this forum many of you are not cabin crew and have very strong views about cabin crew/BASSA members. I would suggest that most of you are also in a union and whilst you have settled with WW now, next year he will be back and will hold you to ransom (ST) in the same way, we are on a rollercoaster with WW, by the way yes I am backing him but his tactics mean that- WE - that is all BA employees when we feel we want to say NO will have the same treatment. Taking away ST is not good for anyone of us and we should all make ourselves heard and NOT condone his actions.

[M.Mouse]

I am reading the PPRuNe posts and feel you are anti Union crew/pilots BA employees and whilst I am anti-strike I feel very strongly about our fellow colleagues, they really believe in BASSA and are truly committed.

I am sure that all but the most unfeeling would feel a degree of sympathy for the CC feeling out on a limb but they have been led by the nose by those they elected to represent them. How anybody can be truly committed to BASSA after the fiasco which started early last year is beyond me.

Reading this forum many of you are not cabin crew and have very strong views about cabin crew/BASSA members.

Correct but the asinine behaviour of BASSA and the CC members without the intelligence or will to ascertain and analyse a few facts for themselves has made many, many other BA employees angry beyond belief. Those of us who have had to suffer the effects of arcane CC agreements which BASSA have protected at all costs are probably the angriest of the lot and, reluctantly, I have to admit a sense of gratitude that someone has finally had the balls to face down BASSA.

I would suggest that most of you are also in a union and whilst you have settled with WW now, next year he will be back and will hold you to ransom (ST) in the same way, we are on a rollercoaster with WW, by the way yes I am backing him but his tactics mean that- WE - that is all BA employees when we feel we want to say NO will have the same treatment. Taking away ST is not good for anyone of us and we should all make ourselves heard and NOT condone his actions.

I have to agree with you. How did we get here? By reasoned and logical negotiation or by 1970's intransigence defending the indefensible when the commercial imperative is plain to all except those who do not wish to see? The outcome of WW having won this battle and BASSA being beaten and being SEEN to be beaten has made negotiation by any other group that much more difficult. The threat of losing ST is a big stick which many will fear.

I learnt a long time ago to only start a fight when I figured I had a better than even chance of winning. It is plain that BASSA have backed themselves into a corner and have absolutely no idea how to proceed. Members clamouring for information and about all the communication that they have received recently is some bleating reference about how difficult it is to carry out BASSA duties when the reps. are not being de-rostered. What about the reps. currently suspended? What about telephones and...er... e-mail and the use of CC internet forums? Skype for a conference calls?

The next BASSA elections should prove interesting and if the current bunch of incompetents are re-elected then what little sympathy I presently have for CC BASSA members will evaporate.

[Litebulbs]

Are any of these 1970's crew left flying or are they all living in there retirement homes on a warm beach overseas? I ask, because lots of people keep drawing reference to this time. When I remember the 70's, I don't remember times of great affluence and money being splashed around, to whoever went on strike. Then that woman got hold of the keys to No 10.

[ottergirl]

the full performance plan actually involves the CSD taking over the role of the crew manager, I think

That was the plan for CSD X as well but the stumbling blocks were remuneration for the ground days, access to Crew Personal files and potential effect on CRM; imagine conducting a disciplinary one day and the next embarking on a 8 day trip together. (Also, not such a problem on Eurofleet, but on WW the CSD's often commute from all over the world so popping into the office for a couple of days is a bit inconvenient. Fine if thats what you signed up for but not if the goal posts have just been moved.) There has been a team of managers working on a job spec for this role since 2000 and no progress has been made.

many of you are not cabin crew

Welcome to Pprune pcf. Lots of us are CC and more coming all the time now that this discussion is just airline staff. Spread the word, this forum could be fantastic if we flood it out! There is some anti-crew feeling on here and many of it coming from FC colleagues but mostly its just people who feel strongly about the survival of BA. FWIW I feel the same as you that I am sad for our colleagues in BASSA who find themselves in a horrible position and I am worried about the implications of imposition but we have to have the wisdom to fight the right battle and this was not it.

[Hotel Mode]

Are any of these 1970's crew left flying

Lots. Several hundred at least.

[Hotel Mode]

There has been a team of managers working on a job spec for this role since 2000 and no progress has been made.

Sounds like a cushy number... Quelle suprise!

Seriously, I'd imagine that it will be introduced on new fleet not old fleet. Theyll then be able to write the scheduling agreements around it, and not try and work a new role into the current inflexible ones.

I am sad for our colleagues in BASSA who find themselves in a horrible position and I am worried about the implications of imposition but we have to have the wisdom to fight the right battle and this was not it.

Well said, fingers crossed for Tuesday.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by Hotel Mode

Lots. Several hundred at least.

The next step is whether any post on here. I would like to know how good the job was in the 70's.

Oh and a couple of hundred is not lots in a workforce getting on for 13000.

[pcf]

I'm a 70's relic !

[Hotel Mode]

Oh and a couple of hundred is not lots in a workforce getting on for 13000.

More than 200 less than 1000. 3 out of my last crew of 14, heaven knows if thats representative.

More importantly in this regard, they, as a group are massively over represented in the BASSA leadership, with most of the main protagonists having 70's DoJs. In fact it was these 1970s contracts that was the basis of the high court case.

[Litebulbs]

Hi pcf,

What was it like at the start of your career? Many posts refer back to this time and suggest that this is when unsustainable (today) agreements were made.

[Juan Tugoh]

The problem is that a culture or mindset can exist long after those responsible for setting that mindset have retired. In a sense we learn how to relate to our employers from those who are our "elders" when we join an organisation. If for any reason that culture does not change - indeed as BASSA have not changed over the years, then a 1970's mindset can easily prevail. Just because one joined later than the 70's does not mean that in terms of industrial relations you do not have an antiquated attitude towards your employer. This, sadly is where BASSA are; the confrontational, mistrusting, all managers are evil and out to screw you approach is a relic from the seventies.

At the moment it is in danger of leading BA into the same place as BL and all those other well known brands from yesteryear that are no longer with us. They believe that they provide the best product in the world but it is expensive, unreliable and hyper resistant to change and innovation. The need for change and engagement with management is self evident to all bar those with the antiquated mindset - primarliy the BASSA leadership who are mired in the old way of thinking.

[Litebulbs]

BL did not go bust in one exceptional year after showing sustained and record making profits.

[Bucking Bronco]

after showing sustained and record making profits

Are you serious?

That would explain all the generous dividends that BA paid between since July 2001.

To save you looking it up, 5p final dividend paid July 2008.

What a fantastic return for shareholders!

[Litebulbs]

That wil be down to the management team, not the T&C's of one employee group.

[M.Mouse]

I have just seen in the SLF section an extract from a BA press release regarding the repatriation of stranded passengers following the volcanic ash chaos.

From a BA release 23/4, regarding the 'recovery' plan for stranded pax:

Our preference is to use Heathrow and Gatwick cabin crew to operate
these extra flights when we can. Where there is a need for us to alter
normal industrial arrangements, for example to reduce the rest time
downroute in order to bring our customers and colleagues home quickly, we
are asking Unite to agree. Where the union declines our requests, and
unfortunately this has happened today, we will use volunteer cabin crew.
The first example of this will be a Hong Kong to Heathrow flight this afternoon.

This would explain what I read on the BALPA forum of the extraordinary situation where volunteer cabin crew have recently flown some rescue flights working alongside regular CC. Whether the regulars included strikers or not I do not know.

This is yet another example of where Unite/BASSA religiously uphold their industrial agreements irrespective of the consequences for our paying passengers.


Litebulbs, are you saying BA's lack of long term profitability has no elationship at all with the cost of CC agreements which are a part of the whole?

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by M.Mouse

Litebulbs, are you saying BA's lack of long term profitability has no elationship at all with the cost of CC agreements which are a part of the whole?

Long term profitability? In the last 10 years, what is the balance of profitable years, to loss making ones?

Treat every employee the same, new contracts on new fleets/working agreements for all. Reasonable?

[Juan Tugoh]

Litebulbs

Nice to see, as usual, you ignoring the main thrust of an argument. Concentrate on the minutiae all you like it does not change the fact that BASSA are acting like a 1970's union where the mistrust of management is not conducive to the company's and therefore, the workers best interests. BL did go bust, their relations with union played a major part of this process, much the same as much of British manufacturing. You fail to address these issues, much the same as you fail to address my other comments. I can only presume that you must agree and can only quibble over trivia.

[pcf]

Hello Litebulbs,
Whilst there are still a few of the old diehards (many 70's male crew were ex seamen ) In my experience junior crew can be just as millitant.
Mrs T changed the unions forever - but some cabin crew still feel they are untouchable. The 12 day strike at Xmas - union members are unable to comprehend why the strike was deemed illeagal - same with the 'imposition' case -if only they would read for themselves instead of relying on the union for all knowledge.
Without the union our jobs would be very different and we should be respectful of that - The Trade Unions movement is a good thing, however Unite must move with the times
If the union is crushed it will be a very sad day for all - millitant or not - it will affect you.

dashing out for BBQ - hope this makes sense