British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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On the days of the strike, can we be told how many of the BASSA leaders
stand by their members, refuse to work and sacrifice their Staff Travel?
...or will they all find some reason to remain out of the front line and leave the misery to their members?
Perhaps, henceforth, the motto of BASSA will be:
"Those at the front say back... and those at the back say forwards!"
stand by their members, refuse to work and sacrifice their Staff Travel?
...or will they all find some reason to remain out of the front line and leave the misery to their members?
Perhaps, henceforth, the motto of BASSA will be:
"Those at the front say back... and those at the back say forwards!"
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Split Duty hotac......
I'm also ex BCal and BA.
Split duty did have collateral cost saving spin off.......no slip crew; less deadheading and positioning; fewer overheads etc..
Usually only two rooms per crew in my experience.....male/female.
To be fair, benifit is more relaxation than sleep.
In BCal, mostly shorthaul, e.g. Europe.
In BA, longhaul internal shuttles, e.g. Oz, Japan, South Africa.
Split duty did have collateral cost saving spin off.......no slip crew; less deadheading and positioning; fewer overheads etc..
Usually only two rooms per crew in my experience.....male/female.
To be fair, benifit is more relaxation than sleep.
In BCal, mostly shorthaul, e.g. Europe.
In BA, longhaul internal shuttles, e.g. Oz, Japan, South Africa.
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Benn following this thread quite closely the past 48 hours & as a fully fledged member of the self-loading freight crew who has a return ticket booked with BA across the 2nd strike dates i wanted to pass on some advice to those CC who are choosing to stike
BA is not untouchable when it comes to going under, if you think they are then your very very mistaken. up until Dec 2009 i spent 10 wonderfull & fun years working for another great british company that thought it was untouchable..... 15 months later i'm now in a job i hate & Woolworths have gone for good it took only 2 months for the enitre company to go...... had i been asked to work a few extra hours a month, take on a bit more work in return for keeping a job i love, i would have jumped at the chance.... take it from somebody thats been removed from their job, the grass is far from greener on the other side & i would have welcomed a figure liek WW who was genuinly intrested in fighting for the companies survial
as for my ticket on the 28th, i wont be taking Mr Walsh up on his kind offer of a refund, i will be backing BA all the way & sticking with them (& praying that my flight still goes ahead as planned of course lol)
BA is not untouchable when it comes to going under, if you think they are then your very very mistaken. up until Dec 2009 i spent 10 wonderfull & fun years working for another great british company that thought it was untouchable..... 15 months later i'm now in a job i hate & Woolworths have gone for good it took only 2 months for the enitre company to go...... had i been asked to work a few extra hours a month, take on a bit more work in return for keeping a job i love, i would have jumped at the chance.... take it from somebody thats been removed from their job, the grass is far from greener on the other side & i would have welcomed a figure liek WW who was genuinly intrested in fighting for the companies survial
as for my ticket on the 28th, i wont be taking Mr Walsh up on his kind offer of a refund, i will be backing BA all the way & sticking with them (& praying that my flight still goes ahead as planned of course lol)
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So, it is quite simple why Short Haul can be seen on paper, to be considerably less cost effective than our Low Frills competitors.
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Is anyone in a position to know whether the final BA offer, and the timing of the strike announcement etc. is being discussed in any way, shape or form over on Crew Forum ?
And if so, which way the wind is blowing over there ?
Many thanks in anticipation . . .
And if so, which way the wind is blowing over there ?
Many thanks in anticipation . . .
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So LHR contingencies then? Well if I was WW I'd park up all the longhaul fleet except the 777 and run a single fleet where you have more flexibility and can deploy CC more efficiently. Hopefully this post will not be nuked this time. 
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I thought the company's last offer to be extraordinarily generous. It left me wondering where in its contents it reflected Willie Walsh's reported determination that bad behaviour would not be rewarded.
Former Liverpool Docker
Today's FT whilst reasonably open, describes Len McCluskey as a 'left leaning Liverpool Docker'. Whilst ignoring the tautology, it is hard to equate the natural instincts of a L'pool docker (and I am in a position to know !) with the CSD aspirations inferred in this thread. He aslo claims that BA's ambitions rather exceed the need to run a successful operation ie he said yesterday that BA's real agenda was to 'destroy trade unionism'. Really - and BA CC care about that principle ?
Given his credentials and statements, one could suspect that this guy is looking for a union v capitalism fight and any fight will do (and hard luck to the poor blo*dy infantry who have to make the strategic sacrifice).
Given his credentials and statements, one could suspect that this guy is looking for a union v capitalism fight and any fight will do (and hard luck to the poor blo*dy infantry who have to make the strategic sacrifice).
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just to be clear on my point about staff travel. To remove staff travel an individual has broken a rule or the removal is company wide or covers a whole group of people, such as retired staff.
To remove staff travel from persons participating in a "legal" strike only "could" be considered discriminatory and is clear victimisation.
I am not saying its a dead cert court victory but I am saying the law is more complicated than most appreciate and there are laws that protect strikers. There is no difference in BA's threat to the strikers of losing staff travel than there would be in saying "you'll never do long haul again because I don't like the socks you wear".
You can threaten it, its a free world but try getting a court rule in your favour if challenged. Would be interesting at least.
To remove staff travel from persons participating in a "legal" strike only "could" be considered discriminatory and is clear victimisation.
I am not saying its a dead cert court victory but I am saying the law is more complicated than most appreciate and there are laws that protect strikers. There is no difference in BA's threat to the strikers of losing staff travel than there would be in saying "you'll never do long haul again because I don't like the socks you wear".
You can threaten it, its a free world but try getting a court rule in your favour if challenged. Would be interesting at least.
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Like so many things in this world, the removal of a non-contractual perk, and the legalities surrounding it, are a little more complicated than "they can/can't".
If you google "BA non contractual perks" and take a look at the "February 2010 Newsletter" from emplaw.co.uk, and "EMPLOYMENT LAW NEWS" from morganrussell.co.uk, you'll see some discusion and opinion.
Ask any YES voting crew member "How do you feel about losing your ST?" and most will reply along the lines of "They can't do that, it's illegal". Ask them how they know that for sure, and you'll most likely get "The union/a csd/someone said so".
In fact, that last reply usually gets trolled-out in any slightly challenging conversation about this entire issue. I've so far met only one YES voter who could substantially and semi-convincingly back-up some of their opinions with some self-researched info.
It was my asking bassa, nearly a year ago, for more substantial facts and genuine info that earnt me my "invitation" from them to leave the union(although it wasn't put quite as politely as that).
If you google "BA non contractual perks" and take a look at the "February 2010 Newsletter" from emplaw.co.uk, and "EMPLOYMENT LAW NEWS" from morganrussell.co.uk, you'll see some discusion and opinion.
Ask any YES voting crew member "How do you feel about losing your ST?" and most will reply along the lines of "They can't do that, it's illegal". Ask them how they know that for sure, and you'll most likely get "The union/a csd/someone said so".
In fact, that last reply usually gets trolled-out in any slightly challenging conversation about this entire issue. I've so far met only one YES voter who could substantially and semi-convincingly back-up some of their opinions with some self-researched info.
It was my asking bassa, nearly a year ago, for more substantial facts and genuine info that earnt me my "invitation" from them to leave the union(although it wasn't put quite as politely as that).
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As a BA longhaul pilot, my experience of the last few months talking to CC is that they voted yes to a strike because of the following reasons:
1. WW hadn't gone to any meetings
2. They stood to lose Ģ15000 each
3. They did not like losing 1 crew at LHR (they didn't know LGW were already at these crewing levels)
4. They wanted to give WW a bloody nose and get him sacked
5. They thought they would get full basic salary if they were on strike
6. They could just go sick if a strike happened and not be involved so no risk
7. Staff travel during a strike , for commuters, would be protected even if they went on strike, in case they changed their minds
8. A number of other reasons which were unbelievable but which they believed, including the point that BASSA had offered BA more cuts than it had originally asked for
OH, and the over-rider....the belief that a strong yes vote would win the day, but that come a strike, many wouldn't go on strike.
In amicable chats that I had with intelligent CC, I could not believe that they thought the above. Most of the time it was because "BASSA says".
I feel sorry for the company, and for the vast majority of CC who have been led to a bad situation by BASSA/Unite and asked for a second time to vote yes.
I just hope that on the BASSA forum, there are plenty of honest answers from Reps now for any genuine questions the crew raise, as it is only fair in this 11th hour that they are not deceived by their union.
1. WW hadn't gone to any meetings
2. They stood to lose Ģ15000 each
3. They did not like losing 1 crew at LHR (they didn't know LGW were already at these crewing levels)
4. They wanted to give WW a bloody nose and get him sacked
5. They thought they would get full basic salary if they were on strike
6. They could just go sick if a strike happened and not be involved so no risk
7. Staff travel during a strike , for commuters, would be protected even if they went on strike, in case they changed their minds
8. A number of other reasons which were unbelievable but which they believed, including the point that BASSA had offered BA more cuts than it had originally asked for
OH, and the over-rider....the belief that a strong yes vote would win the day, but that come a strike, many wouldn't go on strike.
In amicable chats that I had with intelligent CC, I could not believe that they thought the above. Most of the time it was because "BASSA says".
I feel sorry for the company, and for the vast majority of CC who have been led to a bad situation by BASSA/Unite and asked for a second time to vote yes.
I just hope that on the BASSA forum, there are plenty of honest answers from Reps now for any genuine questions the crew raise, as it is only fair in this 11th hour that they are not deceived by their union.
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I believe that UNITE has now forced the CEO into a position where (since he obviously seems committed) that he has made his best effort, he has little alternative but.....to act decisively. This is serious stuff. He may believe he has widespread backing for whatever he does next.
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Deeceethree your post #2723
It would be very interesting to find out how they came to a decision not to recommend this very generous offer (my view), prior to it being withdrawn.
(I think that's what was said at their press conference yesterday, please correct me if I am wrong).
Was it put to a vote of the reps, if so who voted for what etc?
Their members have a right to know that, after all they represent them and may stand for re-election - democracy and all that.
My views on previous post, they do not represent my employer or any other party.
(I think that's what was said at their press conference yesterday, please correct me if I am wrong).
Was it put to a vote of the reps, if so who voted for what etc?
Their members have a right to know that, after all they represent them and may stand for re-election - democracy and all that.
My views on previous post, they do not represent my employer or any other party.
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crazy
Please
What is all this mad desire to start adding a tag-line
"this is my opinion and not my employer "
It doesn't matter a damn to anybody if you are telling the truth or not, but adding the above convinces other loons to start using it and soon the whole place is littered.
FREE CYBERSPACE or something similar and in a little less large typeface
What is all this mad desire to start adding a tag-line
"this is my opinion and not my employer "
It doesn't matter a damn to anybody if you are telling the truth or not, but adding the above convinces other loons to start using it and soon the whole place is littered.
FREE CYBERSPACE or something similar and in a little less large typeface
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According to various reliable sources, the staff travel matter is not as clear-cut as either side here wants to believe.
No point in more yes it is no / it isnīt debate here.
Lets move on please.
A second course of action being pursued by BA, which may be of interest to other employers, is to threaten to withhold perks such as cheap flights for families from any cabin-crew who go on strike. Under British law an employer can do this without sanction so long as the employees are not contractually entitled to the perks and provided that withholding them does not amount to a breach of the fundamental implied contractual term of "mutual trust and confidence". That being said, a body of law has grown up over the last few years suggesting that British law in this respect may contravene the European Convention on Human Rights. The overall result must therefore be that further litigation may be on the cards if BA does pursue this course.
Lets move on please.
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Why Unite turned down BA's offer
Clarified wrote:
BA offered to reinstate an equivalent of 184 full time crew into Euro Fleet and World Wide, but Unite wants 700.
Crew should have been balloted on this offer (as Derek Simpson wanted over a three-week period) but Len McCluskey didn't give crew the chance.
This highlights the divide in Unite.
It would be very interesting to find out how they came to a decision not to recommend this very generous offer (my view), prior to it being withdrawn.
(I think that's what was said at their press conference yesterday, please correct me if I am wrong).
Was it put to a vote of the reps, if so who voted for what etc?
Their members have a right to know that, after all they represent them and may stand for re-election - democracy and all that.
(I think that's what was said at their press conference yesterday, please correct me if I am wrong).
Was it put to a vote of the reps, if so who voted for what etc?
Their members have a right to know that, after all they represent them and may stand for re-election - democracy and all that.
Crew should have been balloted on this offer (as Derek Simpson wanted over a three-week period) but Len McCluskey didn't give crew the chance.
This highlights the divide in Unite.