British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Jungles of SW London
Age: 77
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WeLieInTheShadows
That's the nature of the beast. Can't run a country / union / political party / business / organisation / club without some element of politics.
Roger.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WILTS - you make some valid points; you should consider standing as a rep and throwing out the old lot to achieve what you suggest, if you are as passionate as you appear.
The only point I will pick you up on is as follows:
That is not what appears to be the case with Unite - if that were the case, fine, but apparently informed reports have been made on here of meetings lasting just half an hour per day with BA at the TUC (edit: not ACAS) in the last week.
I think most educated contributors here think it is ridiculous that you are represented by people who seem not to have worked for some time in the role, and appear unable or unwilling to actually negotiate.
So long as you do not subscribe to the ridiculous mind-control mantra of some unions, being that an attack on one is an attack on all, then I doubt most reasonable crew would find the above critique of those reps in any way objectionable, if they were informed of the facts that are apparent on this thread.
The only point I will pick you up on is as follows:
People seem to be quick to damn UNITE (BASSA/AMICUS) for wanting to explore negotiation to it's nth degree before announcing strike dates.
I think most educated contributors here think it is ridiculous that you are represented by people who seem not to have worked for some time in the role, and appear unable or unwilling to actually negotiate.
So long as you do not subscribe to the ridiculous mind-control mantra of some unions, being that an attack on one is an attack on all, then I doubt most reasonable crew would find the above critique of those reps in any way objectionable, if they were informed of the facts that are apparent on this thread.
Last edited by Re-Heat; 1st Mar 2010 at 10:44.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: uk
Age: 54
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: suffolk
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Draglift
think you are barking up the wrong tree.Its not for the salary that previous professionals want to do this job.Sometimes people realise that they are not having a fulfilled life with their current job and seek that fulfillment in another walk of life.Its certainly not for everyone ( long hours away from home/loved ones,no regularity from one month to the next),however it does have its upsides and the salary ,for those ex pros is not one of them.
The benefits of this job are great if you are independant ,love travelling,have a very understanding partner, but earning an equivalent salary to any professional is no longer possible unless you have been with the company for 20 plus years.
think you are barking up the wrong tree.Its not for the salary that previous professionals want to do this job.Sometimes people realise that they are not having a fulfilled life with their current job and seek that fulfillment in another walk of life.Its certainly not for everyone ( long hours away from home/loved ones,no regularity from one month to the next),however it does have its upsides and the salary ,for those ex pros is not one of them.
The benefits of this job are great if you are independant ,love travelling,have a very understanding partner, but earning an equivalent salary to any professional is no longer possible unless you have been with the company for 20 plus years.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I could not care less what you think .I can tell you it IS fact some cabin crew that i have met over the years have worked as Doctors,Lawyers,and Dentists prior to joining BA. Why they have chosen the BA path i don't know.
(a) They weren't very good.
(b) They're lying.
Of course, option (b) would seem the most likely, given the amount of lies we've read over the last year. Perhaps in reality they were assistants to the aforementioned professionals, but chose to embellish.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I mentioned my friend to her, her face was a picture. I chose not to "out" her in front of her colleagues.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
... some BA cc do try to exaggerate their achievements ...
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
People seem to be quick to damn UNITE (BASSA/AMICUS) for wanting to explore negotiation to it's nth degree before announcing strike dates.
WW will get his way (New Fleet all round quite probably), quite possibly without a strike taking place. If a strike does go ahead, given the numbers suggested previously, it will be ineffectual and the only further damage done will be to the BASSA members who are foolish enough to follow their leaders without question. I find it improbable that these people will be allowed to continue working for BA when the dust settles.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 56
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Food Poisoning
From the Guardian article:-
Quote "The assistant general secretary of Unite, Len McCluskey, warned that a 260-mile round trip to the Welsh capital was no substitute for dealing with the type of emergencies that could occur on long-haul flights, including heart attacks, fainting and food poisoning. " Quote
What's he trying to suggest about BA food????? lol
Quote "The assistant general secretary of Unite, Len McCluskey, warned that a 260-mile round trip to the Welsh capital was no substitute for dealing with the type of emergencies that could occur on long-haul flights, including heart attacks, fainting and food poisoning. " Quote
What's he trying to suggest about BA food????? lol
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Shadows
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is not what appears to be the case with Unite - if that were the case, fine, but apparently informed reports have been made on here of meetings lasting just half an hour per day with BA at ACAS in the last week.
However the "informed" reports in this case are wrong on one point at least. The talks are taking place at the TUC.
We're only quick to damn UNITE for wanting to explore negotiation because it was they (their membership in fact) who chose unanimously at Kempton Park not to negotiate. The fact that they are now so keen to talk proves everything which has been written regarding the opinion of the strength of their strike vote.
So I'm going to call you out on that one HF.
WW will get his way (New Fleet all round quite probably), quite possibly without a strike taking place. If a strike does go ahead, given the numbers suggested previously, it will be ineffectual and the only further damage done will be to the BASSA members who are foolish enough to follow their leaders without question. I find it improbable that these people will be allowed to continue working for BA when the dust settles.
As for the departure of a few faces. Maybe that will happen as well. Although the "No man left behind" mantra at the last meeting could be a sticky point on any deal being signed.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Age: 53
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WLITS,
On the 14th December, in a press conference, Len McCluskey said,
My recollection is that this was as a result of one of 3 questions put to the floor by the Unite reps, and was unanimously passed by the 3000+ members present that day (14th Dec)
Am looking for a link now...
On the 14th December, in a press conference, Len McCluskey said,
The removal of the imposition is a pre-condition to any talks taking place
Am looking for a link now...
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: london
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Misquoted
WLITS
In answer to this, i believe Re-Heat was quoting me, and unfortunately misquoted me as saying at ACAS. I made no mention of the location of the talks. I suspect Re-Heat was making a logical (but incorrect) assumption as to the venue.
To the very best of my knowledge my source is completely correct in the information that i provided regarding the intensiveness (or not as the case may be) of the negotiations that UNITE/BASSA are undertaking on behalf of their members.
However the "informed" reports in this case are wrong on one point at least. The talks are taking place at the TUC.
To the very best of my knowledge my source is completely correct in the information that i provided regarding the intensiveness (or not as the case may be) of the negotiations that UNITE/BASSA are undertaking on behalf of their members.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Age: 50
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is not about CC personalities
I have been following this thread for a while but have only posted a couple of comments before Christmas.
I have found the majority of comments on here very helpful to understand the different views (although it would be nice if there was more of a balance with more pro-strike crew posting) but I also find that sometimes we get into these attacks on people's background, personalities or even values.
The changes that BA is proposing have nothing to do with whether there are doctors, nurses or accountants currently working as CC. Neither are they about CC lying or being the best people in the world.
This is not and should not become a personal attack on the crew community.
I seem to understand that the key question is whether negotiations are taking place or if this is a power struggle between the union and BA.
I was nowhere near the negotiations nor have spoken to any of the BASSA rep (with the exception of one and I would not want to base my judgement on one person).
One thing I do know though: every department has taken a hit... the number of managers has been cut and the accountabilities and workload of those who left has been shared between those who remain. At the end of the day people were given the option of leaving, and those who still work for the company knew that things were going to be somehow different.
It has been a painful process, even if it was needed. People in other departments have been through something similar to what the crew is going through now. There was anger, disappointment, hope and anxiety during the process and now people are still adjusting to having more responsibilities, arguably less career opportunities, working harder because the company needs us to. The unions have been involved and have done what they are supposed to do: ensured that the process was fair to everyone, but they could not stop change.
The reality is that we are all in this together. It is easy to judge by just looking at the surface. Wherever you go in BA people are judging what other departments do (or more often pointing out what they don't do). Few people look further to take in the reality of what they are seeing.
I understand the cc want to fight for what they have. It is their right. I also understand that the remoteness of the job means they probably don't know the extent of what has changed in the rest of the company. But to echo what someone else posted here: it is also the right of everybody else in the company to try and save their job.
The volunteers do not know where the truth lies. And it doesn't matter either. There are always two sides to everything, and only those involved know the details.
The rest can only make choices based on what they value, and in this case the volunteers are valuing the company as the sum of all the individuals that depend on BA. This is not taking a stand against cc and it is sad that a lot of people are turning this into a war.
I have found the majority of comments on here very helpful to understand the different views (although it would be nice if there was more of a balance with more pro-strike crew posting) but I also find that sometimes we get into these attacks on people's background, personalities or even values.
The changes that BA is proposing have nothing to do with whether there are doctors, nurses or accountants currently working as CC. Neither are they about CC lying or being the best people in the world.
This is not and should not become a personal attack on the crew community.
I seem to understand that the key question is whether negotiations are taking place or if this is a power struggle between the union and BA.
I was nowhere near the negotiations nor have spoken to any of the BASSA rep (with the exception of one and I would not want to base my judgement on one person).
One thing I do know though: every department has taken a hit... the number of managers has been cut and the accountabilities and workload of those who left has been shared between those who remain. At the end of the day people were given the option of leaving, and those who still work for the company knew that things were going to be somehow different.
It has been a painful process, even if it was needed. People in other departments have been through something similar to what the crew is going through now. There was anger, disappointment, hope and anxiety during the process and now people are still adjusting to having more responsibilities, arguably less career opportunities, working harder because the company needs us to. The unions have been involved and have done what they are supposed to do: ensured that the process was fair to everyone, but they could not stop change.
The reality is that we are all in this together. It is easy to judge by just looking at the surface. Wherever you go in BA people are judging what other departments do (or more often pointing out what they don't do). Few people look further to take in the reality of what they are seeing.
I understand the cc want to fight for what they have. It is their right. I also understand that the remoteness of the job means they probably don't know the extent of what has changed in the rest of the company. But to echo what someone else posted here: it is also the right of everybody else in the company to try and save their job.
The volunteers do not know where the truth lies. And it doesn't matter either. There are always two sides to everything, and only those involved know the details.
The rest can only make choices based on what they value, and in this case the volunteers are valuing the company as the sum of all the individuals that depend on BA. This is not taking a stand against cc and it is sad that a lot of people are turning this into a war.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LHR
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why are people concerned about other qualifications held by CC? I doesn't matter if you're qualified as a brain surgeon - unless you're performing brain surgery it's irrelevant.
All CC meet the basic requirements to pass selection and they are the only qualifications that matter. While some previous qualifications are potentially useful (doctor/nurse/foreign language, etc) they have no bearing on the worth of that individual to the company.
All CC meet the basic requirements to pass selection and they are the only qualifications that matter. While some previous qualifications are potentially useful (doctor/nurse/foreign language, etc) they have no bearing on the worth of that individual to the company.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Simon Calder is still raising BASSA ire - Ottergirl, you get a mention!
Simon Calder: A joke that is wearing thin for BA's passengers - News & Advice, Travel - The Independent
But he's a bit premature saying BA are laughing all the way to the bank:
Bookings down by a third as strike threats worry customers. | News Of The World
Simon Calder: A joke that is wearing thin for BA's passengers - News & Advice, Travel - The Independent
But he's a bit premature saying BA are laughing all the way to the bank:
Bookings down by a third as strike threats worry customers. | News Of The World
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In answer to this, i believe Re-Heat was quoting me, and unfortunately misquoted me as saying at ACAS. I made no mention of the location of the talks. I suspect Re-Heat was making a logical (but incorrect) assumption as to the venue.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most crew would rather see their wages fall for two years - or for
however long it takes to get BA back into profit - than for the
standard of the service they provide to drop
however long it takes to get BA back into profit - than for the
standard of the service they provide to drop
During the flight, the CSD must speak to every passenger and check
on their comfort during the flight
on their comfort during the flight
Source: -
http://www.unitetheunion.com/pdf/022-BA%20Cabin%20Crew%20disputev5.pdf
Edit: - Still looking for an answer on my strike pay question, LiteBulb? Anyone with some TU experience can answer?
Last edited by Snas; 28th Feb 2010 at 14:57. Reason: Strike pay question
For the benefit of the press and travelling public I really must reject some comments in the Unite Media briefing.
Not true. The CSD is the most senior CABIN crew member.
The First Officer is second in command under the Pilot in Command (Captain). That is UK law.
Not in my experience, although they usually have a word with premium pax.
Not true. Sometimes these are not completed until inside the terminal.
Come on, 'extensive management duties'? OK, no one disputes the fact that the CSD has paperwork to complete but so did pursers on aircraft which did not carry a CSD and they managed to work in the galley and the aisles.
Aahh, at last, TRUE. 
A Cabin Services Director (CSD) is the most senior crew member.
The First Officer is second in command under the Pilot in Command (Captain). That is UK law.
During the flight, the CSD must speak to every passenger.
They must also ensure that all passengers complete their visa entry forms.
However, under BA’s imposed changes the CSDs have been brought
“into service”. This means not only do they have to complete their
own extensive management duties, but they also have to
absorb other crew duties.
“into service”. This means not only do they have to complete their
own extensive management duties, but they also have to
absorb other crew duties.
So what is the cabin crew job?
BA cabin crew are extremely professional. Their training enables
them to deliver babies; to administer Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation
and an Epipen injection for anaphylactic shock; to operate a
defibrilator for people who have suffered cardiac arrest; to take
command of a life raft in a ditching scenario; in survival techniques;
in fire fighting; in search techniques when bomb threats received;
and how to deal with situations when a pilot becomes unconscious.
BA cabin crew are extremely professional. Their training enables
them to deliver babies; to administer Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation
and an Epipen injection for anaphylactic shock; to operate a
defibrilator for people who have suffered cardiac arrest; to take
command of a life raft in a ditching scenario; in survival techniques;
in fire fighting; in search techniques when bomb threats received;
and how to deal with situations when a pilot becomes unconscious.