British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Passengers will not be upset about not "receiving" the same service - Personally I think they will be happy that they are getting to their destination.
Although I have a BA Gold Card I changed two tran oceanics last year because of BA uncertainty and three coming up for this March. It is too late now to change back and I won't anyway. But-if I knew that the flights were going to go, even with a sekeleton crew, I would be most happy to fly BA and would be quite secure in the knowledge that these cabin crews were entirely conscientious and safety orientated,
BASSA does go on and on about this wonderful and attentive drink and food service that is meant to be provided. I thought cabin crew were there for the safety of the passengers and not to function as trolley dollies.
As flight crew, which I am in hobby time life, I hereby volunteer like the shot put to help out BA crew their flights, except I am not in England. We would have a ball with the passangers and provide the finest safety net imagineable. At the end of the flight, the pax would really certainly be wondering what all this nonsensees were to make some cabin crew go on strike. Which perhaps explaions why BASA does not want people to cross the picket line and work as cabin crew. they don't want the public to discover how much fun you can make of it? Seven miles round the aisles in my trainers? Bring it on!
Although I have a BA Gold Card I changed two tran oceanics last year because of BA uncertainty and three coming up for this March. It is too late now to change back and I won't anyway. But-if I knew that the flights were going to go, even with a sekeleton crew, I would be most happy to fly BA and would be quite secure in the knowledge that these cabin crews were entirely conscientious and safety orientated,
BASSA does go on and on about this wonderful and attentive drink and food service that is meant to be provided. I thought cabin crew were there for the safety of the passengers and not to function as trolley dollies.
As flight crew, which I am in hobby time life, I hereby volunteer like the shot put to help out BA crew their flights, except I am not in England. We would have a ball with the passangers and provide the finest safety net imagineable. At the end of the flight, the pax would really certainly be wondering what all this nonsensees were to make some cabin crew go on strike. Which perhaps explaions why BASA does not want people to cross the picket line and work as cabin crew. they don't want the public to discover how much fun you can make of it? Seven miles round the aisles in my trainers? Bring it on!
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oh yes these ba cc may have a degree in medicine, law etc but to imply that PRACTICING doctors ,lawyers left extremely well remunerated employment to become ba cc is naive at best and disingenuous at worst.
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winstonsmith?
You are spot on! Are you getting your information from the same source at UNITE as I am?
WW is well and truly in charge of timings, and if/when BASSA will be forced to call a strike (if they do ,they will be on their own)
I wonder also if BASSA have informed their members about the picket line...... or lack off??
In fact there won't be one in the traditional sense. BA/BAA/HAL/ and TFL will not allow any "official picket" on their property, at T5 this includes the approach roads.
The Police are expected to veto any large gatherings on or around the airport, citing public safety and in the extreme they will utilise powers under the anti-terrorism act to prevent any demonstrations or potentially hostile picketing.( Before anyone accuses me of labeling Cabin Crew Pickets as terrorists I am not) Insofar that the Police will be concerned that a potential terrorist will use any diversion of this type to their advantage, be it for reconnaissance or anything else untoward.
Small gatherings off the airport may be allowed, but expect BA to have these filmed for any evidence of bullying or intimidation.
On a separate note the Lufthansa debacle should reach a favourable conclusion next week, suffice to say my comments earlier are reasonable accurate.
WW is well and truly in charge of timings, and if/when BASSA will be forced to call a strike (if they do ,they will be on their own)
I wonder also if BASSA have informed their members about the picket line...... or lack off??
In fact there won't be one in the traditional sense. BA/BAA/HAL/ and TFL will not allow any "official picket" on their property, at T5 this includes the approach roads.
The Police are expected to veto any large gatherings on or around the airport, citing public safety and in the extreme they will utilise powers under the anti-terrorism act to prevent any demonstrations or potentially hostile picketing.( Before anyone accuses me of labeling Cabin Crew Pickets as terrorists I am not) Insofar that the Police will be concerned that a potential terrorist will use any diversion of this type to their advantage, be it for reconnaissance or anything else untoward.
Small gatherings off the airport may be allowed, but expect BA to have these filmed for any evidence of bullying or intimidation.
On a separate note the Lufthansa debacle should reach a favourable conclusion next week, suffice to say my comments earlier are reasonable accurate.
Until something more substantial is produced I will treat this as just typical BASSA bluster. Embellish a personal statement(spell the authors name wrong) that cannot be substantiated (later claiming that it was, perhaps lost in translation) then attribute it to a well known and prestigious news organisation to add to its authenticity............ damage done!
Last edited by Pornpants1; 27th Feb 2010 at 16:00.
With respect to the whole Joerg Handwerg/VC 'thing', perhaps the following may clear up the untruths generated by the Unite/BASSA camp. It is taken from another forum, and the original author has indicated his willingness for it to be passed on:
What chance is there that Unite/BASSA will spend any effort correcting their nonsense? None, I reckon. Truth doesn't seem to be part of their lexicon. 
VC will be sending a clarification to the press .... which will be written soon ....
[Joerg Handwerg] ... said that he explicitly was not, and is not, willing to comment on the current situation at BA because he knows that he is not aware of all the facts. The statement being quoted by Unite was a general statement made a number of weeks ago about the desperation BA must be feeling in order to ask pilots to stand in as crew, and it was in no way intended to criticise .... BA pilots. He feels that this statement is now being abused to create this impression.
He then went on to say that the reason he couldn't imagine any Pilot doing this is because it would be impossible in Germany, but that obviously [the BA] situation is different.
Finally he apologised that his statement has created this impression through being misused, but that there will soon be an official statement correcting this, and added that VC does not intend, or have the right to condemn or judge anybody in BA's current dispute.
[Joerg Handwerg] ... said that he explicitly was not, and is not, willing to comment on the current situation at BA because he knows that he is not aware of all the facts. The statement being quoted by Unite was a general statement made a number of weeks ago about the desperation BA must be feeling in order to ask pilots to stand in as crew, and it was in no way intended to criticise .... BA pilots. He feels that this statement is now being abused to create this impression.
He then went on to say that the reason he couldn't imagine any Pilot doing this is because it would be impossible in Germany, but that obviously [the BA] situation is different.
Finally he apologised that his statement has created this impression through being misused, but that there will soon be an official statement correcting this, and added that VC does not intend, or have the right to condemn or judge anybody in BA's current dispute.
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Weathermap #1644
I could not care less what you think
More to the point, Weathermap, PPRunE - unlike some other cabin crew-oriented websites we could mention - actively encourages differing opinions.
If you do not like that, or if you feel you cannot support freedom to express differing opinions, then perhaps your place is not here.
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Going back to previous comments. I agree that BA cabin crew contain a lot of people who are qualified in other professions. I have flown with ex teachers, policewomen, tube train driver, fireman, several nurses, aircraft ground engineer, member of a BBC orchestra and many more.
However I do not believe this is something cabin crew should boast about.
The fact that these professionals have left their previous jobs to be cabin crew suggests the terms and conditions in BA have been too attractive and have attracted over-qualified personnel. The above are all skilled jobs with far longer training than that required for cabin crew and just because some LHR cabin crew have high qualifications it is not a reason for all LHR cabin crew to be paid more than the going rate for the job.
If you fly from LGW now you do not tend to find these ex professionals which suggests the salaries are more realistic, perhaps too low. At LGW you tend to find enthusiastic young cabin crew or much older cabin crew. Some of the older ones are ex BCAL and Danair who have brought up children who have now grown up and they have returned to being cabin crew 20 years after giving it up and are enjoying the freedom, travel and new life it allows them. Old or young they are a pretty good natured hard working bunch. LHR has some great cabin crew too, but some have been in the job far too long, hate it yet are trapped by a lifestyle unobtainable to them elsewhere.
I can understand the LHR cabin crew desperately trying to hang on to the fantastic quality of life they have enjoyed for so long. I'm sure I would too if I was them. However striking at the merst whiff of a change is not a tactic that can be employed any more and I'm sure strike action now will be detrimental to their future in BA.
However I do not believe this is something cabin crew should boast about.
The fact that these professionals have left their previous jobs to be cabin crew suggests the terms and conditions in BA have been too attractive and have attracted over-qualified personnel. The above are all skilled jobs with far longer training than that required for cabin crew and just because some LHR cabin crew have high qualifications it is not a reason for all LHR cabin crew to be paid more than the going rate for the job.
If you fly from LGW now you do not tend to find these ex professionals which suggests the salaries are more realistic, perhaps too low. At LGW you tend to find enthusiastic young cabin crew or much older cabin crew. Some of the older ones are ex BCAL and Danair who have brought up children who have now grown up and they have returned to being cabin crew 20 years after giving it up and are enjoying the freedom, travel and new life it allows them. Old or young they are a pretty good natured hard working bunch. LHR has some great cabin crew too, but some have been in the job far too long, hate it yet are trapped by a lifestyle unobtainable to them elsewhere.
I can understand the LHR cabin crew desperately trying to hang on to the fantastic quality of life they have enjoyed for so long. I'm sure I would too if I was them. However striking at the merst whiff of a change is not a tactic that can be employed any more and I'm sure strike action now will be detrimental to their future in BA.
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MrBernoulli
As I concluded..... The Damage is done, its now been repeated by BASSA so many times, that it is now ingrained as "fact".
BASSA like to compare their struggle with BA by drawing historical parallels with Nelson Mandella, Rosa Parks, Martin King, Jewish persecution under the Nazis and Tiananmen Square (have I missed anyone???) and yes I have a copy of the now removed You Tube Video
Yet they manipulate the truth as good as Geobbels and Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf.
BASSA like to compare their struggle with BA by drawing historical parallels with Nelson Mandella, Rosa Parks, Martin King, Jewish persecution under the Nazis and Tiananmen Square (have I missed anyone???) and yes I have a copy of the now removed You Tube Video
Yet they manipulate the truth as good as Geobbels and Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf.
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I know it's late,
I know I'm weary,
I know your 'planes don't include me,
So, here we are now,
Both of us only
longing for ACAS and all that we fear.
Why should we worry,
No one will care girls,
Look at the Ts & Cs, so far away,
We got the Strike, who need a job 2 morrow,
We got tonight BA, why don't you say................
Good night - sweet dreams, sweet memories, sweet sorrows.
Sir George Cayley
I know I'm weary,
I know your 'planes don't include me,
So, here we are now,
Both of us only
longing for ACAS and all that we fear.
Why should we worry,
No one will care girls,
Look at the Ts & Cs, so far away,
We got the Strike, who need a job 2 morrow,
We got tonight BA, why don't you say................
Good night - sweet dreams, sweet memories, sweet sorrows.
Sir George Cayley
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BA at LGW (it's current and previous incarnations), has seen it's fair share of proffessions mentioned previously. It may seem incredulous to some on here that highly trained/skilled people chose to be cabin crew (even at LGW!). But after being lucky enough to meet many of these individuals the main reason is not money, but a change of lifestyle, and being in a job they can "enjoy" rather than be a slave to money.
Incidentally I have also met pilots both in a out of BA that also would like to hang up their wings as they dislike the job, but the money funds a lifestyle that they do not wish (or are unable) to give up.
So the door swings both ways.
On the subject of the ongoing dispute...
It is a shame (for everyone in long run) that posters seem to be focusing on BASSA and what they are doing, and not WHY they are doing it.
BASSA love or hate their tactics, are a trade union. They do what they say on the tin, fight for their members rights, and to keep (and hopefully improve) their T&Cs. BALPA have untimalely the same remit, as do all trade unions.
Taking an overall view they have done a pretty good job of looking after their members T&Cs. There have been various efforts from previous quarters to change them. They have reacted and these efforts (rightly or wrongly depending on who you are) and they have been repelled using their usual tactics that hark back largely to pre-Thatcher times. Up until now.
Trade unionism has to change with the times, or it will die by the sword of big business and a term of Govt. by the Tories (although that's less likely to happen for a while).
BALPA is not a bad example of what a modern trade union could look like or behave. It does however represent a different demographical group of people than the majority of people UNITE represents. BALPA does seem to have some sort of issue with the TUC which is an essential part of unionism, which does mistify me. Perhaps someone could clear that up?
The gradual erosion of the strength of trade unions and their rights, influence, and power ultimately will only affect one group of people....anyone who isn't at the top of the corporate tree. So pretty much most of us.
BA certainly are playing hard ball, and for once have done their homework (god knows they've had enough time!). It's shame they can't do the same for every other aspect of their operation, but they have to start somewhere.
BASSA is not just BASSA this time. It's also UNITE, and AMICUS that represent crew at BA (formerly CC89). Whilst it is totally obvious to all that the usual propaganda is coming from one area, I think you'll find things are different behind the scenes.
BASSA has made mistakes and has realised the old approach is not going to work (maybe too late but we all are where we are now). The more free thinking reasonable crew were never in BASSA and are in Amicus (and it reflected in their representatives). With the two sides working together we are seeing what results dialogue can bring, with the help of UNITE officials.
One day this will all be over, and it will be resolved by negotiation with the trade unions input, if a strike happens or not (the level of influence will also depend on this).
People seem to be quick to damn UNITE (BASSA/AMICUS) for wanting to explore negotiation to it's nth degree before announcing strike dates. "They're scared", "They're weak", "BA are winning" is what seems to be the vouge, and people are reveling in it.
Would it not be better for everyone at BA and trade unionism for all of us that a militant "old style" trade union may actually be slowly changing (forced or otherwise) and coming around to a better way of doing business with BA. I know it may be a bridge too far. But surely the alternative that most seem to favour is not one we should wish for.
Total destruction of BASSA/AMICUS/UNITE in BA is good for no one. It just leaves a instruction book for other companies to follow. Workers in every sector should be hoping for an amicable solution worked out through negotiation BEFORE a stirke happens. ANY OTHER RESULT is disaster for EVERYONE, as next time it will be your sector or proffesion looking down a high court injuction.
Workers helping this demise are also not helping anyone, least of all themselves or their sector. But of course it's not that simple is it.
Just another side I hope those reading this (no matter who you are), consider.
Lets hope this all gets resolved quickly through negotiation, before a stirke happens or even is announced, is the bottom line. It's the best outcome for everyone, and something I've not heard many on here wishing for.
Which IMHO....is a shame.
WLITS - BA Cabin Crew and proud to be a trade unionist.
Incidentally I have also met pilots both in a out of BA that also would like to hang up their wings as they dislike the job, but the money funds a lifestyle that they do not wish (or are unable) to give up.
So the door swings both ways.
On the subject of the ongoing dispute...
It is a shame (for everyone in long run) that posters seem to be focusing on BASSA and what they are doing, and not WHY they are doing it.
BASSA love or hate their tactics, are a trade union. They do what they say on the tin, fight for their members rights, and to keep (and hopefully improve) their T&Cs. BALPA have untimalely the same remit, as do all trade unions.
Taking an overall view they have done a pretty good job of looking after their members T&Cs. There have been various efforts from previous quarters to change them. They have reacted and these efforts (rightly or wrongly depending on who you are) and they have been repelled using their usual tactics that hark back largely to pre-Thatcher times. Up until now.
Trade unionism has to change with the times, or it will die by the sword of big business and a term of Govt. by the Tories (although that's less likely to happen for a while).
BALPA is not a bad example of what a modern trade union could look like or behave. It does however represent a different demographical group of people than the majority of people UNITE represents. BALPA does seem to have some sort of issue with the TUC which is an essential part of unionism, which does mistify me. Perhaps someone could clear that up?
The gradual erosion of the strength of trade unions and their rights, influence, and power ultimately will only affect one group of people....anyone who isn't at the top of the corporate tree. So pretty much most of us.
BA certainly are playing hard ball, and for once have done their homework (god knows they've had enough time!). It's shame they can't do the same for every other aspect of their operation, but they have to start somewhere.
BASSA is not just BASSA this time. It's also UNITE, and AMICUS that represent crew at BA (formerly CC89). Whilst it is totally obvious to all that the usual propaganda is coming from one area, I think you'll find things are different behind the scenes.
BASSA has made mistakes and has realised the old approach is not going to work (maybe too late but we all are where we are now). The more free thinking reasonable crew were never in BASSA and are in Amicus (and it reflected in their representatives). With the two sides working together we are seeing what results dialogue can bring, with the help of UNITE officials.
One day this will all be over, and it will be resolved by negotiation with the trade unions input, if a strike happens or not (the level of influence will also depend on this).
People seem to be quick to damn UNITE (BASSA/AMICUS) for wanting to explore negotiation to it's nth degree before announcing strike dates. "They're scared", "They're weak", "BA are winning" is what seems to be the vouge, and people are reveling in it.
Would it not be better for everyone at BA and trade unionism for all of us that a militant "old style" trade union may actually be slowly changing (forced or otherwise) and coming around to a better way of doing business with BA. I know it may be a bridge too far. But surely the alternative that most seem to favour is not one we should wish for.
Total destruction of BASSA/AMICUS/UNITE in BA is good for no one. It just leaves a instruction book for other companies to follow. Workers in every sector should be hoping for an amicable solution worked out through negotiation BEFORE a stirke happens. ANY OTHER RESULT is disaster for EVERYONE, as next time it will be your sector or proffesion looking down a high court injuction.
Workers helping this demise are also not helping anyone, least of all themselves or their sector. But of course it's not that simple is it.
Just another side I hope those reading this (no matter who you are), consider.
Lets hope this all gets resolved quickly through negotiation, before a stirke happens or even is announced, is the bottom line. It's the best outcome for everyone, and something I've not heard many on here wishing for.
Which IMHO....is a shame.
WLITS - BA Cabin Crew and proud to be a trade unionist.
Doctors,Lawyers,and Dentists
If he thinks BA CC have a better deal than the above he's really going to go for your Ts&Cs.
Just a thought.
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"BASSA love or hate their tactics, are a trade union. They do what they say on the tin, fight for their members rights, and to keep (and hopefully improve) their T&Cs. BALPA have untimalely the same remit, as do all trade unions."
Surely, in a modern economy, a modern Trade Union should be fighting for its members' best interests, which are not necessarily as above.
Surely, in a modern economy, a modern Trade Union should be fighting for its members' best interests, which are not necessarily as above.
BALPA does seem to have some sort of issue with the TUC
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Surely, in a modern economy, a modern Trade Union should be fighting for its members' best interests, which are not necessarily as above.
Could be something to do with the fact that some TUC affiliated unions are led by people who, instead of merely representing their members, also have their own personal political agenda.
It obscures the ideal/best solution for the greater good. But you have to hope right will out. What other choice is there? Communism? We as voters / members vote or choose those who represent us. We must vote them out/ in when we have the chance.
Ignoring political agendas or avoiding them will not make them go away.
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It obscures the ideal/best solution for the greater good. But you have to hope right will out. What other choice is there? Communism? We as voters / members vote or choose those who represent us. We must vote them out/ in when we have the chance.
Now what if the members opinion has been dictated by the union? I can't remember a single unite/bassa message that was 100% truthful. Then what? The union have purposefully mislead the membership. Think NUM 1982.
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Which all comes down to the union representing the members opinion.
Now what if the members opinion has been dictated by the union? I can't remember a single unite/bassa message that was 100% truthful. Then what? The union have purposefully mislead the membership. Think NUM 1982.
Now what if the members opinion has been dictated by the union? I can't remember a single unite/bassa message that was 100% truthful. Then what? The union have purposefully mislead the membership. Think NUM 1982.
We can only make judgements based on information we are given from various quarters.
As for being mislead...... see....... Tony Balir, Margret Thatcher, George Bush.....need I go on?
As I have already stated. Things are going in a different direction. You can't change the past. But you have to hope the future is better. Hoping otherwise is wishing for failure.
WeLie.....
Excellent posts..
And there's the rub, the word.."given". Apart from a few honorable exceptions few politicians (often aka Union rep) are ever going to "give" the electorate anything other than what they think the electorate need to hear, in order to get themselves re-elected....we're all educated adults, we all know that we should always be questioning the information our politicians give us, don't we?
I truely hope you are right...
We can only make judgements based on information we are given from various quarters
Things are going in a different direction. You can't change the past. But you have to hope the future is better
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Strike Pay
I have a question regarding strike pay. BASSA have stated, I believe, that strike pay of £30.00 per day will be paid. Under what circumstances would someone qualify for this payment?
Will the union even be aware, or able to verify, if any particular employee was on strike or not?
Will the payment only be paid to those that attend a picket or would all strike staff qualify?
Will the union even be aware, or able to verify, if any particular employee was on strike or not?
Will the payment only be paid to those that attend a picket or would all strike staff qualify?
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we're all educated adults, we all know that we should always be questioning the information our politicians give us, don't we?