British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Wonker
Bit if an embarrassing climb down!
I suspect we are nearing the end of your posting on PPRUNE and your help in polarising opinion against BASSA, if anyone on here is a BA lurker, trying to stir up support for the airline, my money would be on you!!
I suspect we are nearing the end of your posting on PPRUNE and your help in polarising opinion against BASSA, if anyone on here is a BA lurker, trying to stir up support for the airline, my money would be on you!!
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Originally Posted by Litebulbs
Why would she not be working for BA in the future? What has she done that warrants a disciplinary?
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Litebulbs,
Ref your earlier post about the £140m required from IFCE, that is the absolute minimum required from the department in the agreement that will inevitably follow.
Other departments have agreed savings and contributed to the SLIGHTLY better figures achieved recently, and cabin crew must contribute their share.
IN ADDITION, cabin crew must realise that by rejecting any savings proposal, threatening to strike, and causing forward bookings to collapse, they must also pay additional costs. In my opinion in the region of £40 million, bringing the total to around £180m, not far off the very first proposed savings over a year ago. Industrial intransigence cannot be rewarded, it must be shown to be costly to the union.
It will be interesting to play spot the difference between the final solution and the offer made by the company in OCT 09. Then we will ask, what has all this achieved?
Ref your earlier post about the £140m required from IFCE, that is the absolute minimum required from the department in the agreement that will inevitably follow.
Other departments have agreed savings and contributed to the SLIGHTLY better figures achieved recently, and cabin crew must contribute their share.
IN ADDITION, cabin crew must realise that by rejecting any savings proposal, threatening to strike, and causing forward bookings to collapse, they must also pay additional costs. In my opinion in the region of £40 million, bringing the total to around £180m, not far off the very first proposed savings over a year ago. Industrial intransigence cannot be rewarded, it must be shown to be costly to the union.
It will be interesting to play spot the difference between the final solution and the offer made by the company in OCT 09. Then we will ask, what has all this achieved?
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The catch-all of "Bringing the company into disrepute" will probably cover it. I would imagine she will be allowed to go quietly and keep her pension if she doesn't dispute it.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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How has LA bought the company into disrepute?
Edit: With respect to losing her pension, they can let her have her contributions back and they comply with the law. That's what I meant.
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Welcome back Watersidewonker!
I feel that we are nearing a turning point in this dispute and I would be quite happy to see a fair deal agreed.
Could this mean a wind change?
Re. certain people reflecting on 'where they want to go next'. I think the priority is protecting our business, customers and employees from the damage that will be done if there is a strike. Judging by the competency arleady shown by the individuals you talk about, I wouldn't be in any doubt that they have already thought all of that through, way back.
(My views in response to previous post, not my employers or any other party).
OzzieO
Despite a lot of BASSA's antics I'm not sure she has and IMHO it would be very dangerous for anyone in a Union in BA if Ms Malone is removed simply for being the head of a Union involved in an industrial dispute....
However in the wash up to all this unpleasantness she should be asking herself wheter she retains any credibility with her Union members and they should be asking themselves if they are still willing to bankroll her position in office with their subs.
However in the wash up to all this unpleasantness she should be asking herself wheter she retains any credibility with her Union members and they should be asking themselves if they are still willing to bankroll her position in office with their subs.
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Litebulbs #1528
"I may be wrong..."
What the article actually says is:
"Overall, for the 12 months to the end of March [2010], the consensus is a loss of £602 million — more than £200 million more than the record £401 million reported for 2008-09."
Add the losses together for the two years and you get £1,003m.
As I said in my previous post, that equates to about 50% of shareholders' funds. Given that I hope it's now clear just how bleak are BA's financials, would you agree that reducing the workforce entirely voluntarily, on terms significantly better than the law requires, coupled with no pay cuts for existing staff and a revised on-board product to reflect the lower staff numbers avilable to deliver it is, actually, a very generous offer?
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Yes, it was "her" (BASSA's) right to take BA to court.
However with all these things, you don't do it on a whim or in a fit of pique. You do it based upon considered research and an examination of all the options, especially the one which says "court cases can also be lost".
The BASSA case was always going to be tenuous and I'm damned sure if someone took me to court, lost and cost me a fortune, I'd be looking for restitution. I'd also want to make sure that person could not do it to me again if the mood so took them.
IMHO, I expect her to retire quietly to California in the next few months.
However with all these things, you don't do it on a whim or in a fit of pique. You do it based upon considered research and an examination of all the options, especially the one which says "court cases can also be lost".
The BASSA case was always going to be tenuous and I'm damned sure if someone took me to court, lost and cost me a fortune, I'd be looking for restitution. I'd also want to make sure that person could not do it to me again if the mood so took them.
IMHO, I expect her to retire quietly to California in the next few months.
OzzieO
I doubt it, looking at the politics behind this I suspect the UNITE leadership may well "suggest" she has some time off for reflection....
Last edited by wiggy; 26th Feb 2010 at 08:37.
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Watersidewonker
There is a fair deal already on the table, and has been since day one.
1. No pay cut
2. Minimal change to crew complements.
In a recession you can't say fairer than that. What, would change for Unite to consider it fair? BA are not going to put crew back on the planes due to the High Court verdict.
Or, will they just finally, after bringing us all into disrepute, claim victory and walk away?
Unite has ACHIEVED NOTHING and has brought utter shame on our community. It is an absolute disgrace and by continuing to support them, then you too are bringing shame on our once respected name.
I am a cabin crew member and this is my own view and not that of BA.
I feel that we are nearing a turning point in this dispute and I would be quite happy to see a fair deal agreed.
1. No pay cut
2. Minimal change to crew complements.
In a recession you can't say fairer than that. What, would change for Unite to consider it fair? BA are not going to put crew back on the planes due to the High Court verdict.
Or, will they just finally, after bringing us all into disrepute, claim victory and walk away?
Unite has ACHIEVED NOTHING and has brought utter shame on our community. It is an absolute disgrace and by continuing to support them, then you too are bringing shame on our once respected name.
I am a cabin crew member and this is my own view and not that of BA.
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Ms Malone
I think once this is all over, and cabin crew reflect on what they have gained over the initial proposal from a year ago, at what cost to them personally, at what cost to their union fees, at what cost to their reputation, at what cost to their relationships with other departments at work, and even perhaps at what cost to their employer on whose success they depend, they may find that Ms Malone has been found wanting.
Her credibility is in tatters, as is her union's.
Time for a change very soon I think.
Her credibility is in tatters, as is her union's.
Time for a change very soon I think.
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JayPee:
This comment is excellent:
A reality that many seem to have forgotten. BA's mission is to be a profitable enterprise for its shareholders while providing reasonable compensation for its employees and it needs to provide assurance to its shareholders and potential shareholders that it will take all reasonable steps to minimize losses and maximize profit.
Its mission is NOT to just barely get by. Unfortunately I believe many BASSA employees view BA as still run by the government when in fact they have a new employer.
This comment is excellent:
I really think you need to widen your horizon a bit, and take a look at some of BA's other stakeholders, not just its various employee groups. When you consider the T&C changes being discussed here in the context of a 50% drop in shareholders' funds, and a decline in share price from the peak in early-2007 of 578p to 210p as of yesterday...
Its mission is NOT to just barely get by. Unfortunately I believe many BASSA employees view BA as still run by the government when in fact they have a new employer.
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It's not only La La that needs to go i can think of one rep on shorthaul who is a nothing more than a thug and a bully. If La La does move on who is going to take over the asylum.In my experience the reps are all as bad as each other.The negative spin and propaganda against BA is not going to stop just because La La goes.WW needs to crush BASSA before they realy destroy BA it's only a matter of time before the next drama.It realy is time for WW to say to cabin crew fit in or 
.If push come to shove most cabin crew would not risk what they have with BA .Many crew are well qualified and could move onwards and upwards but lets be honest here there are also many that would end up working in M&S not that there is anything wrong with working in M&S but that is reality for many crew.
.If push come to shove most cabin crew would not risk what they have with BA .Many crew are well qualified and could move onwards and upwards but lets be honest here there are also many that would end up working in M&S not that there is anything wrong with working in M&S but that is reality for many crew.
