British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
The implication that 80.7% is a high figure is being twisted somewhat. From Unite:
So, 80.7% of returned ballot forms in a 78.7% turnout. 7482 voted yes - barely 60% of BA's cabin crew. Hardly a landslide. 1789 said no, but what happened to the missing 2420? Couldn't be bothered? And with all the volunteers willing and trained to make up numbers, I'd say Unite/BASSA are on a decidedly sticky wicket.
Roll on the endgame.
80.7 per cent of all those who returned their ballot forms voted yes to industrial action on a 78.7 per cent turnout. 7,482 of crew members balloted voted yes with 1,789 crew voting no; 11,691 ballot papers were issued.
Roll on the endgame.
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Great result for BA. 7500ish Yes voters, many of whom were persuaded to vote yes on pretty tenuous grounds.
I reckon a third max will actually strike, say 2500, easily covered by working to min crew, min rest and topped up by volunteers ( who might cover the whole striking manpower). BA will, I'm sure be expecting to achieve a full schedule within a couple of days.
Check mate Watersidewnker.
I reckon a third max will actually strike, say 2500, easily covered by working to min crew, min rest and topped up by volunteers ( who might cover the whole striking manpower). BA will, I'm sure be expecting to achieve a full schedule within a couple of days.
Check mate Watersidewnker.
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Snas
Let me see if I can write down the numbers correctly - I had some wine and my head is spinning!
They sent out approximately 12.300 ballot papers - the number voting yes was 7.482. That's equivalent to around 61%.
Let me see if I can write down the numbers correctly - I had some wine and my head is spinning!
They sent out approximately 12.300 ballot papers - the number voting yes was 7.482. That's equivalent to around 61%.
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So, an extra 1000 people voted no this time around? I wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that the Professional Cabin Crew Council has stood up to be counted and publicly declared that:
a. BA changes have been reasonable
b. We will not be going on strike
c. We will cross a picket line.
The more people that stand up and say it, the more difficult it makes it for the militants to stay at home. WWW - will you be the only one on strike while your "brothers" either go sick or report for duty?
a. BA changes have been reasonable
b. We will not be going on strike
c. We will cross a picket line.
The more people that stand up and say it, the more difficult it makes it for the militants to stay at home. WWW - will you be the only one on strike while your "brothers" either go sick or report for duty?
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Winston
Fair enough, I was using the total number of cabin crew rather than votes sent out. I see CC that are not members of Unite as being no voters, they have chosen not to be a member after all, thats a vote, of sorts..! (Spinning a bit I know, but you get my point I'm sure)
Fair enough, I was using the total number of cabin crew rather than votes sent out. I see CC that are not members of Unite as being no voters, they have chosen not to be a member after all, thats a vote, of sorts..! (Spinning a bit I know, but you get my point I'm sure)
winstonsmith,,
Unite itself said it sent out exactly 11,691 ballot papers. And as not all BA cabin crew are members of BASSA (apparently only 11691 of them are) you have to factor that in to your calculations.
Unite itself said it sent out exactly 11,691 ballot papers. And as not all BA cabin crew are members of BASSA (apparently only 11691 of them are) you have to factor that in to your calculations.
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Hmm. Do we really think it realistic to introduce temporary masures which have to be re-paid/unpicked at a later date?
If it happens for crew, in the interests of fairness, it would have to happen for all other BA departments.
That would be great. I would no longer have to do the work of 3 senior managers, as well as my own, i would get back pay for the extra hours i work on top opf my contracted ones and my 3 year pay freeze could be restrospectively corrected.
Multiply that up by every other BA staff member who has taken a hit, and the cost to the company would immediately plunge BA back into the red.
Will i also get my 5% salary sacrifice x 7 months back from post 9/11?
I'm afraid, as much as i would love to have things back the way they were, it is just not realistic. Permanent change means the companmy has cost certainty and can make solid long term plans, which in the long run should help the company to become a financially stable and profitable business. And that is the end game which will benefit all the most. Delayed gratification.
If it happens for crew, in the interests of fairness, it would have to happen for all other BA departments.
That would be great. I would no longer have to do the work of 3 senior managers, as well as my own, i would get back pay for the extra hours i work on top opf my contracted ones and my 3 year pay freeze could be restrospectively corrected.
Multiply that up by every other BA staff member who has taken a hit, and the cost to the company would immediately plunge BA back into the red.
Will i also get my 5% salary sacrifice x 7 months back from post 9/11?
I'm afraid, as much as i would love to have things back the way they were, it is just not realistic. Permanent change means the companmy has cost certainty and can make solid long term plans, which in the long run should help the company to become a financially stable and profitable business. And that is the end game which will benefit all the most. Delayed gratification.
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Caribbean Boy
We'll be right alongside you!
We work for a great company! Some people should try working in the real world, it ain't pretty. (MOD hope you don't mind the slang).
We work for a great company! Some people should try working in the real world, it ain't pretty. (MOD hope you don't mind the slang).
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This thread has carried much criticism of 'the union'
However, it is not the union that has voted, but CC themselves.
I am bound to assume that CC have minds of their own, and had a 'free vote' as to whether they wished to strike or not.
They have, by a significant majority, voted to strike.
Does this not mean that union-bashing is misplaced? If CC THEMSELVES have voted to strike, they must know their own minds, and genuinely want to inconcvenience the company and its customers.
I am not a union man, nor do I think that there is the slightest risk of BA coming within a million nautical miles of having to shut down.
What any strike(s) will actually achieve is unknowm.
But I DO support that majority of trained, intelligent personnel who have elected to strike - if only because they believe that their employer is being unreasonable.
However, it is not the union that has voted, but CC themselves.
I am bound to assume that CC have minds of their own, and had a 'free vote' as to whether they wished to strike or not.
They have, by a significant majority, voted to strike.
Does this not mean that union-bashing is misplaced? If CC THEMSELVES have voted to strike, they must know their own minds, and genuinely want to inconcvenience the company and its customers.
I am not a union man, nor do I think that there is the slightest risk of BA coming within a million nautical miles of having to shut down.
What any strike(s) will actually achieve is unknowm.
But I DO support that majority of trained, intelligent personnel who have elected to strike - if only because they believe that their employer is being unreasonable.
winstonsmith,
This is taken from Unite'sown website, today:
BA cabin crew vote overwhelmingly for strike action
This is taken from Unite'sown website, today:
80.7 per cent of all those who returned their ballot forms voted yes to industrial action on a 78.7 per cent turnout. 7,482 of crew members balloted voted yes with 1,789 crew voting no; 11,691 ballot papers were issued.
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I heard it was around 12.300
Last edited by Papillon; 22nd Feb 2010 at 21:54. Reason: I note Mr Bernoulli's correction on total numbers, but the point still stands
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Lightbulbs
Thankyou for trying to put the BASSA side of the argument, its very worthwhile particularly as you are a UNITE rep, and the previous BASSA cheerleaders have gone very quiet. I suspect though that your sympathies lie with the non strikers even though it probably sticks in the throat to admit it.
What has UNITE said, if anything to those UNITE members from other BA divisions that have volunteered to man (or woman) the aircraft.
regards
What has UNITE said, if anything to those UNITE members from other BA divisions that have volunteered to man (or woman) the aircraft.
regards
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Flyluke,
Yes, union members are entitled to vote however they want. The problem a lot of us have with the union is that they have time and time again lied to their members. This has been proven as well, several times.
If members want to vote yes, that's up to them, but they should at least be able to have access to facts and correct information, and not rhetoric and lies from their union "leaders".
Some of us have seen through this, and more are following in our footsteps.
In the case about unite and bassa, it has been reported here continuously that nobody is "allowed" to ask difficult questions of the union. When you have reps and union "leaders" behaving like this, it's very difficult for a lot of people to make sense of it all.
Hopefully, common sense will prevail, and there will be no drawn-out strike. By the looks of things, more and more people are contacting the PCCC looking for facts and information as well as reassurance.
Gg
I'm BA crew and this is my opinion and not that of my employer
Yes, union members are entitled to vote however they want. The problem a lot of us have with the union is that they have time and time again lied to their members. This has been proven as well, several times.
If members want to vote yes, that's up to them, but they should at least be able to have access to facts and correct information, and not rhetoric and lies from their union "leaders".
Some of us have seen through this, and more are following in our footsteps.
In the case about unite and bassa, it has been reported here continuously that nobody is "allowed" to ask difficult questions of the union. When you have reps and union "leaders" behaving like this, it's very difficult for a lot of people to make sense of it all.
Hopefully, common sense will prevail, and there will be no drawn-out strike. By the looks of things, more and more people are contacting the PCCC looking for facts and information as well as reassurance.
Gg
I'm BA crew and this is my opinion and not that of my employer
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It's dangerous because there are crew who have absolutely no idea what this is all about. There was even reported of a crew member who had voted YES and after asked a colleague what they would be striking over.
GlamGirl is right when she says about not being allowed to ask any difficult questions to any of the representatives. One crew member asked last year what the dispute was about and the rep had simply answered - it's too complicated to explain!
GlamGirl is right when she says about not being allowed to ask any difficult questions to any of the representatives. One crew member asked last year what the dispute was about and the rep had simply answered - it's too complicated to explain!
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Thankyou for trying to put the BASSA side of the argument, its very worthwhile particularly as you are a UNITE rep, and the previous BASSA cheerleaders have gone very quiet. I suspect though that your sympathies lie with the non strikers even though it probably sticks in the throat to admit it.
What has UNITE said, if anything to those UNITE members from other BA divisions that have volunteered to man (or woman) the aircraft.
regards
What has UNITE said, if anything to those UNITE members from other BA divisions that have volunteered to man (or woman) the aircraft.
regards
With regard to Unite members in other departments volunteering to help BA, it is one of the major downfalls of a union the size of Unite. As you can imagine, many non flying staff have a view on their collegues in dispute and how that will affect their future employment.