British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Junior trash
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Do BA pilots consider Scope as part of their terms and conditions of employment? does the document state that it is?
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Reading the judgement gives an insight into the heart of the matter. Management face a challenging global economic situation that requires action to ensure the survival of BA. Cabin Crew must accept as many other have in other walks of life changes to their working practivcces to ensure the survival of the airline.
The Judge is really saying he recognises the desire of bothparties to see BA survive but the reality is in this situation Management must be allowed to manage. That doesn't mean walk over staff or take advantage but the facts are before everyone that the costs structure of BA is one that has to change at all levels and in all departments.
The Judge is really saying he recognises the desire of bothparties to see BA survive but the reality is in this situation Management must be allowed to manage. That doesn't mean walk over staff or take advantage but the facts are before everyone that the costs structure of BA is one that has to change at all levels and in all departments.
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I hope BA seek damages and drive the victory home.
If BASSA were a company, its shareholders would have demanded its leaders' mass resignations by now.
As the members are the shareholders, it is time they got rid of Malone and the rest of the dross and elected people who want to work WITH the company, and for THE MEMBERS, as opposed to against the company and for themselves.
If BASSA were a company, its shareholders would have demanded its leaders' mass resignations by now.
As the members are the shareholders, it is time they got rid of Malone and the rest of the dross and elected people who want to work WITH the company, and for THE MEMBERS, as opposed to against the company and for themselves.
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Lexoncd has it right; the judges words in summing up need careful reading. He did not by any means give BA a green light to ride roughshod over people.
Look carefully at the exact wording and if anything it fires a warning shot across BAs bows.
Look carefully at the exact wording and if anything it fires a warning shot across BAs bows.
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I don't want to get bogged down in the specfics of Scope, I raise the matter because I believe it is most obvious agreement to illustrate how all agreements can now be affected on this particular forum.
Also because during the Open Skies dispute it was ruled that Scope was a legally binding agreement. That gave my Pilot colleagues the satisfaction and security of knowing that they would not be slowly replaced with cheaper pilots within the UK. To illustrate my point about the fragility of workers agreements it would now be possible for Walsh & Co to seek any change to Scope and cite the latest case law that agreements are not legally binding, and should a company feel the need to protect its self financially, it could take steps without consultation or agreement. In the case of Scope, Open Skies contracts for Pilots within the UK.
But the new issues go far beyong BA, so I will not mention Scope again, its not (yet) the discussion, only an illustration.
The court case does not negate the current industrial ballot. It may now be the case that a company can legally ignore an agreement but there is still the moral issue. The subject of whether a strike is legal or not is procedural and not about the subject matter. In this instance BA cabin crew are being asked if they are aggrieved about recent events within the company. If they are or not will be clear when the result of the ballot is announced.
Also because during the Open Skies dispute it was ruled that Scope was a legally binding agreement. That gave my Pilot colleagues the satisfaction and security of knowing that they would not be slowly replaced with cheaper pilots within the UK. To illustrate my point about the fragility of workers agreements it would now be possible for Walsh & Co to seek any change to Scope and cite the latest case law that agreements are not legally binding, and should a company feel the need to protect its self financially, it could take steps without consultation or agreement. In the case of Scope, Open Skies contracts for Pilots within the UK.
But the new issues go far beyong BA, so I will not mention Scope again, its not (yet) the discussion, only an illustration.
The court case does not negate the current industrial ballot. It may now be the case that a company can legally ignore an agreement but there is still the moral issue. The subject of whether a strike is legal or not is procedural and not about the subject matter. In this instance BA cabin crew are being asked if they are aggrieved about recent events within the company. If they are or not will be clear when the result of the ballot is announced.
Junior trash
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Also because during the Open Skies dispute it was ruled that Scope was a legally binding agreement. That gave my Pilot colleagues the satisfaction and security of knowing that they would not be slowly replaced with cheaper pilots within the UK. To illustrate my point about the fragility of workers agreements it would now be possible for Walsh & Co to seek any change to Scope and cite the latest case law that agreements are not legally binding, and should a company feel the need to protect its self financially, it could take steps without consultation or agreement. In the case of Scope, Open Skies contracts for Pilots within the UK.
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Read para 42 of the judgement and you will see that this was not a blanket victory for the company, civil cases rarely are.
The para is about as sensible as it comes and by no means gives either side carte blanche to sideline the other.
The para is about as sensible as it comes and by no means gives either side carte blanche to sideline the other.
Junior trash
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Read para 42 of the judgement and you will see that this was not a blanket victory for the company, civil cases rarely are.
The continuing and presently prospective problem is money, finding the wherewithal to fund an airline of this nature and one would imagine that the only real prospect for alleviation of the impact upon cabin crew is by negotiation that truly reflects and balances the demands upon, and the commitment of the employee with the unavoidable realities of the current pressures upon management.
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I must conclude by paying tribute to the professional standards of the legal teams – with a particular word for those responsible for the bundles: they were refreshingly exemplary as to content and management.
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para 39 of the judgement gives a real insight into the negotiations at ACAS
the now undisputed fact is that BA was then in a very serious financial state, such that management reasonably had urgently to do something (and had to be seen to do something) in the interests of the Company, its employees and its financial backers. I have further taken into account the now undisputed fact that as at the 6th October negotiations with the Union had come to a halt, notwithstanding the efforts of ACAS, and were unlikely to restart unless and until the internal factions of Unite had resolved their differences so as to form a negotiating team. It is thus, that I find that it was objectively reasonable in the prevailing circumstances to act unilaterally and to make the first change to XXXX's predicated contract, that is, to impose a cabin crew complement other than by way of a collective agreement.
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Re-Heat. I am not stating that every company will automatically change any agreement that does not suit them. However if a company chooses to do so and legal advice or a court case is sought, then the legal precedent which the company will cite is BA v Malone 2010.
Back to my point that the rep team should have considered a specific clause in the contract at some point in the past, but have not to date included one. This is a very specific case on a very specific contract.
I find it distasteful that Unite paint it as an attack on all workers, citing calls to arms, when it is their failing in prior rounds of contract negotiations that actually caused them to lose.
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Selective quotes from the judgement of note:
Who do you think is representing you exactly?
There you are - the crux of the £1.2m cost to the union from your subs was that the two factions failed to act as one and effectively negotiate.
# Ms Mussenden provides further figures with presently material significance by way of average hourly operating costs:
BA LHR Worldwide: £60
Eurofleet: £58
By way of comparison:
Longhaul
Emirates: £27
Virgin: £20-27
BA Gatwick: £37
Shorthaul
BMI: £33
Easy Jet: £20
BA Gatwick: £37
BA LHR Worldwide: £60
Eurofleet: £58
By way of comparison:
Longhaul
Emirates: £27
Virgin: £20-27
BA Gatwick: £37
Shorthaul
BMI: £33
Easy Jet: £20
BA Gatwick: £37
# The essential chronology is as follows;
i) 24th February – At a National Sectional Panel ("NSP") meeting Mr Francis told the Union that in the then financial circumstances BA looked to save £82m as against the cost of cabin crew. Throughout Unite had separately identified representatives from both its BASSA and Amicus factions.
ii) 26th February – At a further such meeting Mr Francis handed over a list setting out 32 prospective costs saving measures and invited discussion. Of these measures nine involved reduction in current cabin crew complements.
iii) February – April BA met 14 times with BASSA and four times with Amicus in a mixture of formal and informal meetings.
iv) May – Following release of the figures for the first quarter (see para 12 above) the required costs saving was increased to £140m.
v) 1st June – BA issue a statutory HR1 form proposing up to 2000 redundancies amongst cabin crew. BA and the Union meet at a formal NSP.
vi) 9th – 30th June – Intermittent talks at Heathrow Renaissance Hotel. In the course of such;
a) 15th June BASSA had a heated argument with Amicus and refused to cooperate together
b) 23rd June BA put forward a proposal in writing. This included specific reductions in crew complements
c) 25th June – Unite put forward a written Pay and Productivity Proposal, claiming that it would save BA £173m. It proposed some alterations in the cabin crew complements but no significant reduction. Thereafter BA tried to understand and analyse the cost saving as anticipated by Unite, bringing in accountants, Price Waterhouse Cooper. The latter's assessment was that the saving would be about £53m. Unite refused to have further discussions over this issue, whether with BA or the accountants.
In the overall result, the meetings broke up without reaching any joint conclusion.
vii) 29th June – Mr Francis sent a letter to each cabin crew member, setting out BA's proposals, such including a reduction in cabin crew complements.
viii) 21st-23rd July – An abortive session at ACAS.
ix) 21st, 30th September and 1st and 2nd October – Following an agreement reached between BA's CEO and the Joint General Secretaries of Unite, there was a further sustained resort to ACAS for conciliation. I heard evidence as to the course of events at ACAS and the following emerged. The BASSA and Amicus factions were separately represented and sat in separate rooms. Despite the efforts of ACAS they could not be persuaded to join forces for a meeting with BA. The latter raised the possibility of separate agreements with the respective factions but, understandably, that did not appeal. In the overall result there was no meeting between the Union and BA.
x) 6th October – Mr Francis e-mails all cabin crew.
i) 24th February – At a National Sectional Panel ("NSP") meeting Mr Francis told the Union that in the then financial circumstances BA looked to save £82m as against the cost of cabin crew. Throughout Unite had separately identified representatives from both its BASSA and Amicus factions.
ii) 26th February – At a further such meeting Mr Francis handed over a list setting out 32 prospective costs saving measures and invited discussion. Of these measures nine involved reduction in current cabin crew complements.
iii) February – April BA met 14 times with BASSA and four times with Amicus in a mixture of formal and informal meetings.
iv) May – Following release of the figures for the first quarter (see para 12 above) the required costs saving was increased to £140m.
v) 1st June – BA issue a statutory HR1 form proposing up to 2000 redundancies amongst cabin crew. BA and the Union meet at a formal NSP.
vi) 9th – 30th June – Intermittent talks at Heathrow Renaissance Hotel. In the course of such;
a) 15th June BASSA had a heated argument with Amicus and refused to cooperate together
b) 23rd June BA put forward a proposal in writing. This included specific reductions in crew complements
c) 25th June – Unite put forward a written Pay and Productivity Proposal, claiming that it would save BA £173m. It proposed some alterations in the cabin crew complements but no significant reduction. Thereafter BA tried to understand and analyse the cost saving as anticipated by Unite, bringing in accountants, Price Waterhouse Cooper. The latter's assessment was that the saving would be about £53m. Unite refused to have further discussions over this issue, whether with BA or the accountants.
In the overall result, the meetings broke up without reaching any joint conclusion.
vii) 29th June – Mr Francis sent a letter to each cabin crew member, setting out BA's proposals, such including a reduction in cabin crew complements.
viii) 21st-23rd July – An abortive session at ACAS.
ix) 21st, 30th September and 1st and 2nd October – Following an agreement reached between BA's CEO and the Joint General Secretaries of Unite, there was a further sustained resort to ACAS for conciliation. I heard evidence as to the course of events at ACAS and the following emerged. The BASSA and Amicus factions were separately represented and sat in separate rooms. Despite the efforts of ACAS they could not be persuaded to join forces for a meeting with BA. The latter raised the possibility of separate agreements with the respective factions but, understandably, that did not appeal. In the overall result there was no meeting between the Union and BA.
x) 6th October – Mr Francis e-mails all cabin crew.
There you are - the crux of the £1.2m cost to the union from your subs was that the two factions failed to act as one and effectively negotiate.
All that said, I cannot regard the 6th October changes as drastic or extreme and outwith the parameters of "reasonable". The crew complements remain significantly above the minimum, the flights demonstrably can continue and to the extent that there is an aligning of LGW and LHR levels it is difficult to raise substantial objections. But, more importantly all such has to be judged not in a vacuum but in the light of the financial situation: if the new complements materially and fairly contribute to the preservation of BA and more importantly for present purposes job security and pay, how can I condemn the less than extreme changes as unreasonable?
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Re-Heat
when comparing average hourly costs between fleets and airlines it should be noted that the average age of employees is greatly different between LHR crews and the rest ie LGW EASY VA etc who are bound to cost less as they are younger and have been with their respective companies for less time.
when comparing average hourly costs between fleets and airlines it should be noted that the average age of employees is greatly different between LHR crews and the rest ie LGW EASY VA etc who are bound to cost less as they are younger and have been with their respective companies for less time.
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Can't wait for UNITE to release their newsletter!
I wonder what it will say - something in the line of the judge not ruling by the law but by the financial situation which the company is in - democracy and law being completely ignored.
I wonder what it will say - something in the line of the judge not ruling by the law but by the financial situation which the company is in - democracy and law being completely ignored.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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...it should be noted that the average age of employees is greatly different between LHR crews and the rest ie LGW EASY VA etc who are bound to cost less as they are younger and have been with their respective companies for less time.