British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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@ The PCCC
The Professional Cabin Crew Council - PCCC | Facebook
Bottom left corner you can "Report Page" with reason [from the options listed] "Fake Page".
The Professional Cabin Crew Council - PCCC | Facebook
Bottom left corner you can "Report Page" with reason [from the options listed] "Fake Page".
..........Ps the reason this Nigel asks/takes a first class mug..........
Course I also remember the old North Atlantic Barons, who insisted on their tea being served in bone china, on a silver tray, with lump sugar in a bowl and sugar tongues a la the Monarch Service in First Class.
think my way was better.
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I agree with The Heavy Heavy about the mugs. The First class mugs are tall enough to keep the handle clear of the edge of the cup holder. Just makes it so much easier to avoid spills than in a club mug or a paper cup. Spilling liquids when you are surrounded by electronic equipment isn't a very good idea.
It certainly doesn't help to make some of the teas I've had taste better.
Barbosa.
It certainly doesn't help to make some of the teas I've had taste better.
Barbosa.
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I carried my own, polystyrene, insulated, ( 'cos one never managed to drink the stuff whilst it was still hot, had to attend to things like flying the aircraft, talk to ATC, you know, sort of important things ) chosen to fit the standard Boeing hole, and decorated with the important stuff in hand-written nail-varnish - so's it wouldn't wash off - i.e. CAPTAIN ( so they knew who to give it to ) Black Coffee, White tea, NO SUGAR.
I think if you tried carrying one of those on board now, you'd probably get a cavity search from the over-enthusiastic security bods (and they'd have spotted it on their shiny new full body scanners).....
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Course I also remember the old North Atlantic Barons, who insisted on their tea being served in bone china, on a silver tray, with lump sugar in a bowl and sugar tongues a la the Monarch Service in First Class.
Although the Monarch "sugar tongues" First Class sevice sounds much more fun...
I have truly seen it all now. BA pilots pontificating about the merits of First Class tea and coffee cups over Club and paper cups, whilst the company is losing millions and the CC are on the verge of a strike.
I think it is a nice touch that ExSp33db1rd has "Captain" written on his cup. I normally put my name on mine. You chaps are priceless.
I think it is a nice touch that ExSp33db1rd has "Captain" written on his cup. I normally put my name on mine. You chaps are priceless.
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My first ever post on Pprune. Just to say, I'm a long time lurker who has been watching this thread since the very beginning, when as BA ground staff, CC sharing my hotel in NYC asked me what I knew of "Project Columbus" back in 2007 (I think it was).
Yesterday, the closing date for volunteering, I volunteered my services as temp CC. I do this, not because I want to do it necessarily, but because I want to send as strong a message as possible that BASSA are totally isolated in this dispute.
I went through T5 recently and got chatting to one of the young check in agents - probably quite poorly paid, and a union member. She had nothing but scorn for the dispute. Her view is that many CC have waltzed through airports for years as complete untouchables, and that their sense of entitlement has to be seen to be believed. I hope ground staff are volunteering too.
Of course, there are a few CC who have the strength of character to speak out - Tiramisu, HighFlyer14, Glamgirl, Slidebustle - you stand as a constant inspiration to those more reluctant to stand up to the BASSA monster. Well, you are doing so, knowing that the insular, paranoid, defensive, information starved people you work with are dismissive and hostile to your views. Respeck
Most CC I fear, are starved of alternative views, and given the pro-BASSA hysteria, are reluctant to seek them out - hence this weird psychological construct in which many CC live - bizarre to many of us on the outside looking in, but I suspect Tiramasu, GG and HF14 understand the delusion entirely.
One final thing - I think the esprit de corps that'd be fostered by baggage handlers, engineers, pilots, finance clerks, IT bods and experienced cabin crew working together on a flight would be wonderful, and though I'm extremely busy holding down my day job with BA, I secretly hope I'll be selected to do the training and get to do a couple of long range trips. What a genuinely team building experience that'd be.
Anyway, enough, I hear you cry. Bring it on. WW isn't going to back down now.
Yesterday, the closing date for volunteering, I volunteered my services as temp CC. I do this, not because I want to do it necessarily, but because I want to send as strong a message as possible that BASSA are totally isolated in this dispute.
I went through T5 recently and got chatting to one of the young check in agents - probably quite poorly paid, and a union member. She had nothing but scorn for the dispute. Her view is that many CC have waltzed through airports for years as complete untouchables, and that their sense of entitlement has to be seen to be believed. I hope ground staff are volunteering too.
Of course, there are a few CC who have the strength of character to speak out - Tiramisu, HighFlyer14, Glamgirl, Slidebustle - you stand as a constant inspiration to those more reluctant to stand up to the BASSA monster. Well, you are doing so, knowing that the insular, paranoid, defensive, information starved people you work with are dismissive and hostile to your views. Respeck
Most CC I fear, are starved of alternative views, and given the pro-BASSA hysteria, are reluctant to seek them out - hence this weird psychological construct in which many CC live - bizarre to many of us on the outside looking in, but I suspect Tiramasu, GG and HF14 understand the delusion entirely.
One final thing - I think the esprit de corps that'd be fostered by baggage handlers, engineers, pilots, finance clerks, IT bods and experienced cabin crew working together on a flight would be wonderful, and though I'm extremely busy holding down my day job with BA, I secretly hope I'll be selected to do the training and get to do a couple of long range trips. What a genuinely team building experience that'd be.
Anyway, enough, I hear you cry. Bring it on. WW isn't going to back down now.
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Is BA Doomed?
Perception is reality and all that. No matter what we think, this is what the world thinks:
Is British Airways doomed? - Markets - MSN Money UK
Be very afraid!
Is British Airways doomed? - Markets - MSN Money UK
Be very afraid!
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Union supporters sink to new lows
I just received a SMS this morning. Naming and shaming Flight crew as scabs and other rather private things. I did not hesitate and called BALPA head office. I informed them of the text I received as well as the number it came from. I sincerely hope this will put and end to this kind of stupid, threatening and dangerous rubbish.
Safe flying!
Safe flying!
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It's copied from elsewhere. One of the many fine BASSA tactics of last resort. Threaten a name and shame. My other half received a text with the names of, allegedly, the pilots behind the PCCC last night and a statement of "FACT" that BA are funding it. Hmmm. I wonder.
However if the PCCC do want any help, this pilot's happy to muck in.
MrB
However if the PCCC do want any help, this pilot's happy to muck in.
MrB
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As I write this, BA and BASSA are in court to resolve the issue of whether crew complement forms part of an individual’s contract of employment. The suggestion forwarded by BASSA is that crew complement is embedded in agreed terms and conditions and thus forms part of an individual’s contract of employment.
The Contract of Employment merely confirms someone is employed in a certain role and required to do such duties as is required by the employer in that role. It goes on to outline notice periods etc but there is usually no mention of rank or specific terms and conditions as they constantly evolve.
Clearly, terms and conditions are mutually agreed over the years between the Company and the Union representing the workforce, and they are just that, agreements. There is no doubt in my mind that the court will find for BA.
BASSA continually points out that BA cannot impose anything without their agreement. What is not clear is the procedure that exists should agreement not be reached. Industrial action on the part of the Union yes, but what are the options for the Company? Given there is an element in BASSA that come from the “The answer is No, what is the question?” school of negotiation, where does that leave the Company.
Perhaps the opponents of “imposition” would explain what other option BA had, given that no agreement had been reached in the previous months. ( and please don’t say negotiation because I think we have been there )
I am convinced that there is a quiet confidence at the Waterside top floor that the number of cabin crew actually failing to show for duty during a strike would be perhaps 20% at most given the risk of losing staff travel at best and your job at worst. Add to that, a very very successful initiative to replace the potential strikers and you are coming close to a very reasonable flying program on day one of a strike.
BASSA, your move I think.
The Contract of Employment merely confirms someone is employed in a certain role and required to do such duties as is required by the employer in that role. It goes on to outline notice periods etc but there is usually no mention of rank or specific terms and conditions as they constantly evolve.
Clearly, terms and conditions are mutually agreed over the years between the Company and the Union representing the workforce, and they are just that, agreements. There is no doubt in my mind that the court will find for BA.
BASSA continually points out that BA cannot impose anything without their agreement. What is not clear is the procedure that exists should agreement not be reached. Industrial action on the part of the Union yes, but what are the options for the Company? Given there is an element in BASSA that come from the “The answer is No, what is the question?” school of negotiation, where does that leave the Company.
Perhaps the opponents of “imposition” would explain what other option BA had, given that no agreement had been reached in the previous months. ( and please don’t say negotiation because I think we have been there )
I am convinced that there is a quiet confidence at the Waterside top floor that the number of cabin crew actually failing to show for duty during a strike would be perhaps 20% at most given the risk of losing staff travel at best and your job at worst. Add to that, a very very successful initiative to replace the potential strikers and you are coming close to a very reasonable flying program on day one of a strike.
BASSA, your move I think.
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Thanks Mr Bunker - in fact we would like to say a huge thank you to everyone that has emailed their support and offers of help. Unfortunately we are now getting overrun and we have to dedicate our time to replying to the cabin crew wanting to join, so we are unable to reply individually. We are extremely grateful, and it makes us even more determined to continue.
Regarding the False Facebook account, here is the letter we have emailed to our members:
Please be aware that there is now a false facebook account saying that we are being funded by BA. It is not true, and we have logged a complaint with Facebook. Why would we spend the outlay on launching a website, and then say on Facebook that it was funded by BA? The truth is we have no funding, nor do we need any at the moment. The website is our only outlay at the moment, and we have shared the cost between the founder members of PCCC. Money well spent it appears.
It does however show the levels that the Union and the militants within will stoop to, to try and discredit us. Their time and energy would be better spent on negotiating a better future for all cabin crew. Money not so well spent, we think!
On a brighter note, we are being overwhelmed with emails of support. Your word is spreading, and cabin crew are contacting us continually. We have also had offers of help to create databases, design a logo, print cards, etc. Some are from people within BA, many are from interested outsiders and even customers. Their kindness and generosity is overwhelming. People are identifying with our cause, and are offering to help. That in itself must tell you that we are genuine, and that we have a worthwhile cause.
It is regrettable that our community is riddled with this type of childish and immature behaviour. It is that destructive attitude that is wrecking our community and now threatening our jobs. We are now receiving hate mail to this email address, and I hope that explains to you why we have had to keep our identity secret. We will not be deterred and we will fight on. The support and requests for information from Cabin Crew have made us even more determined to find a solution to this abhorrent situation we are all in.
Our objectives in all of this are simple:
We want to save our company, protect our jobs and to restore the professional image of BA Cabin Crew.
To achieve our objective we need as many people as possible to VOTE NO in the current ballot. A strike will achieve absolutely nothing, and will do more damage than good. So we need to focus on the strike ballot. When that is over, we will be able to work towards our goals of securing a better way forward for all of us. A professional way.
The PCCC Team
A better way to do business. A professional way.
www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
[email protected]
Regarding the False Facebook account, here is the letter we have emailed to our members:
Please be aware that there is now a false facebook account saying that we are being funded by BA. It is not true, and we have logged a complaint with Facebook. Why would we spend the outlay on launching a website, and then say on Facebook that it was funded by BA? The truth is we have no funding, nor do we need any at the moment. The website is our only outlay at the moment, and we have shared the cost between the founder members of PCCC. Money well spent it appears.
It does however show the levels that the Union and the militants within will stoop to, to try and discredit us. Their time and energy would be better spent on negotiating a better future for all cabin crew. Money not so well spent, we think!
On a brighter note, we are being overwhelmed with emails of support. Your word is spreading, and cabin crew are contacting us continually. We have also had offers of help to create databases, design a logo, print cards, etc. Some are from people within BA, many are from interested outsiders and even customers. Their kindness and generosity is overwhelming. People are identifying with our cause, and are offering to help. That in itself must tell you that we are genuine, and that we have a worthwhile cause.
It is regrettable that our community is riddled with this type of childish and immature behaviour. It is that destructive attitude that is wrecking our community and now threatening our jobs. We are now receiving hate mail to this email address, and I hope that explains to you why we have had to keep our identity secret. We will not be deterred and we will fight on. The support and requests for information from Cabin Crew have made us even more determined to find a solution to this abhorrent situation we are all in.
Our objectives in all of this are simple:
We want to save our company, protect our jobs and to restore the professional image of BA Cabin Crew.
To achieve our objective we need as many people as possible to VOTE NO in the current ballot. A strike will achieve absolutely nothing, and will do more damage than good. So we need to focus on the strike ballot. When that is over, we will be able to work towards our goals of securing a better way forward for all of us. A professional way.
The PCCC Team
A better way to do business. A professional way.
www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
[email protected]
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I know this has been discussed before, but can't remember where the discussion got to.
If BASSA lose the court case (likely in my view), but win the ballot (again likely in my view), what's the position regarding the legality of strike action ?
Has Unite formally stated that imposition is the reason for the ballot ? If so, surely, a ruling declaring imposition entirely lawful means that BA could injunct again ? Or is it that actually, in law, a union can strike legally over anything it's unhappy with, whether or not the company has acted lawfully ?
Either way, WW's got BASSA where he wants them. Worst case now for BA's long term viability is an out of court settlement.
These are views held in a personal capacity and do not reflect the views of BA.
If BASSA lose the court case (likely in my view), but win the ballot (again likely in my view), what's the position regarding the legality of strike action ?
Has Unite formally stated that imposition is the reason for the ballot ? If so, surely, a ruling declaring imposition entirely lawful means that BA could injunct again ? Or is it that actually, in law, a union can strike legally over anything it's unhappy with, whether or not the company has acted lawfully ?
Either way, WW's got BASSA where he wants them. Worst case now for BA's long term viability is an out of court settlement.
These are views held in a personal capacity and do not reflect the views of BA.
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Rusty Shackleford
On the strike ballot form, the only thing is asks is;
Are you willing to participate in strike action?
There is no 'official' reason given on the form, although I do remember a couple of BASSA forum discussions taking place in which someone asked 'Exactly what are we striking over?' to which LM herself said it was the 'Imposition'. Can't seem to find it on the BASSA forum now as it was back in December sometime.
Will keep on looking for it though.
AD
Are you willing to participate in strike action?
There is no 'official' reason given on the form, although I do remember a couple of BASSA forum discussions taking place in which someone asked 'Exactly what are we striking over?' to which LM herself said it was the 'Imposition'. Can't seem to find it on the BASSA forum now as it was back in December sometime.
Will keep on looking for it though.
AD
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If BA does not see fit to cater cups that fit and are practical and comfortable for use by their pilots (hard to believe but then so are many other things stated on this thread) then that it is not within the scope of this CC thread.
Discuss it somewhere else please ladies and gentlemen.
This thread is a PPRuNe thread. It is not a vehicle for discussing what gets posted on other boards.
Discuss it somewhere else please ladies and gentlemen.
This thread is a PPRuNe thread. It is not a vehicle for discussing what gets posted on other boards.
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Wise words from Rusty Shackleford
Paradoxically, the other worst case scenario is a "No" vote. BASSA hierarchy blames the membership, accepts the imposition because the membership were "too weak" to oppose it, convenes down at the "Argee Bargee" curry house and plots more mischief virtually intact.
Or am I just a bit cynical?
Final thought, it would be appropriate for all the BASSA reps with their part time status as reps to be considered by BA as "On Strike" on day one regardless of rostered duty. It is called "leading from the front".
Either way, WW's got BASSA where he wants them. Worst case now for BA's long term viability is an out of court settlement.
Or am I just a bit cynical?
Final thought, it would be appropriate for all the BASSA reps with their part time status as reps to be considered by BA as "On Strike" on day one regardless of rostered duty. It is called "leading from the front".
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Boondocker:
Yes, I know all of that. Would one of the PCCC supporters like to provide some thoughts on the future once the 'acceptable and decent' monthly travel payment is accepted albeit it an 'imagined' future?
Tirmisu:
Why don't you ask your UNION that very question? New Fleet will shortly be launched and we're about to lose Bill Francis offer of a fixed Monthly Travel Payment for ever! The members will only have themselves to blame if this offer is retracted and believe me it will be, if UNITE don't act fast and call off the Strike.
Yes, I know all of that. Would one of the PCCC supporters like to provide some thoughts on the future once the 'acceptable and decent' monthly travel payment is accepted albeit it an 'imagined' future?
Tirmisu:
Why don't you ask your UNION that very question? New Fleet will shortly be launched and we're about to lose Bill Francis offer of a fixed Monthly Travel Payment for ever! The members will only have themselves to blame if this offer is retracted and believe me it will be, if UNITE don't act fast and call off the Strike.
FWIW, I'm all for a new approach for the future but the PCCC is unconvincing. If professionalism is what you are touting then why launch a half-arsed website? Its clearly a work in progress and does nothing for your credibility.
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No, I am not trying to wind anybody up - it is fact. Why should I have to change my terms and conditions - the company is still making money, and as I said, I would rather it go bust, then work for an easyjet type lifestyle.
I joined BA for this exact reason - this is only the start of the end of the currnet terms and conditions - nobody can see the bigger picture.
You may mock and laugh at 33%. It is still hard work, in fact harder after being off for 6 weeks. That is my choice and MY terms and conditons, that I pay subscriptions for.
As for the discussion re which cup in the flight deck - please.
I joined BA for this exact reason - this is only the start of the end of the currnet terms and conditions - nobody can see the bigger picture.
You may mock and laugh at 33%. It is still hard work, in fact harder after being off for 6 weeks. That is my choice and MY terms and conditons, that I pay subscriptions for.
As for the discussion re which cup in the flight deck - please.
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hiflyer14 and PCCC
Firstly may i congratulate you on establishing the website that even us passengers can view ... GOOD ON YA which is more than i can say for BASSA ... are they hiding something ... 
Here's a though ... BASSA ... run or ruin ... there is one letter different between the two 'i' and another word for i is me and is that all BASSA seem to think about ... me me me ...
good luck with the PCCC and to all of you who are determined to save BA you have my honest and heartfelt support ... i'm still looking forward to travelling BA on march28th.
which is more than i can say for BASSA ... are they hiding something ... Here's a though ... BASSA ... run or ruin ... there is one letter different between the two 'i' and another word for i is me and is that all BASSA seem to think about ... me me me ...
good luck with the PCCC and to all of you who are determined to save BA you have my honest and heartfelt support ... i'm still looking forward to travelling BA on march28th.
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Boondocker
Give the guys trying to get PCCC up and running a break!
In addition to this admirable work they also have 'day jobs' to do and probably web development isn't included in their skillset.
The most important thing that they are doing is showing CC that their is viable alternative to BASSA - one that works with the staff and the company to deliver mutual benefits rather just deliver confrontation.
Personally I wish them all the very best
In addition to this admirable work they also have 'day jobs' to do and probably web development isn't included in their skillset.
The most important thing that they are doing is showing CC that their is viable alternative to BASSA - one that works with the staff and the company to deliver mutual benefits rather just deliver confrontation.
Personally I wish them all the very best