British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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markymark
If you think that 33% money is not enough, then perhaps you should leave? Comments like yours really irritate me, I need a full time wage to live on and comments like 'bringing the company down' do not help further your cause. There are lots of crew like me who rely on a wage from BA.
Last time I checked, the only things that BA have imposed are the new crew levels (which means working a bit harder), where do you see that you would be so much worse off under these agreements? Is that really worth bringing the company down for? There are lots of other departments in BA that don't want to see the company go down too. And just remember that you have to strike on what has actually been imposed, not what might be around the corner.
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get hardly anything to live on on 33%, its a disgrace it really is
Last time I checked, the only things that BA have imposed are the new crew levels (which means working a bit harder), where do you see that you would be so much worse off under these agreements? Is that really worth bringing the company down for? There are lots of other departments in BA that don't want to see the company go down too. And just remember that you have to strike on what has actually been imposed, not what might be around the corner.
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Cabin crew courses
I did day one of the three day flight crew conversion today at Cranebank.
It was pretty good to be honest. The trainers have got the right balance of making sure we know what we need to know, without treating us like children.
There are 21 of us on the course. We're about the 5th through so far and there are more planned each week.
We also saw a large group of groundstaff doing their SEP training along with quite a number of new entrants.
We all got some interesting looks from the cabin crew on recurrent training but their is real spirit and determination to keep our customers flying doing the rounds in Cranebank right now! It feels really enabling.
Back in tomorrow for day two.
It was pretty good to be honest. The trainers have got the right balance of making sure we know what we need to know, without treating us like children.
There are 21 of us on the course. We're about the 5th through so far and there are more planned each week.
We also saw a large group of groundstaff doing their SEP training along with quite a number of new entrants.
We all got some interesting looks from the cabin crew on recurrent training but their is real spirit and determination to keep our customers flying doing the rounds in Cranebank right now! It feels really enabling.
Back in tomorrow for day two.
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Watersidewonker seems to be doubtful - very doubtful indeed - of what will come out of Court No. 23:
Call me a cynic, but that does not seem like one hundred per cent confidence in her union's ability to pull the chestnuts out of the fire.
a win will be a bonus
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markymark1234 I do not care anymore , the management have made their decission that CREW are the pits of the earth, and should be treated accordingly - so let them have it, I DONT GIVE A FLYING F as they are hellbent on breaking a terms and conditions, why fight it., get hardly anything to live on on 33%, its a disgrace it really is
Enjoy 100% of your time running your own company. Any clues as to the services you supply?
I love hearing that they will strike to break the company. I'm not sure the company has a plan to break you if you didn't, how ironic! Looking forward to lala's next humiliation (stunning victory). Now it would appear they are making false claims on public forums to discredit others! Will they never learn, hopefully not!
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markymark
markymark
I dont understand where you are coming from sometimes,on the 24th January you posted:
How come the about-face?
I dont understand where you are coming from sometimes,on the 24th January you posted:
BASSA could not care less
I am afraid the union needs to go, Yes things will change but BA crew have had it far too easy for far too long. Wake up, get in the real world. BA will not survive unless these conditions are changed
I am afraid the union needs to go, Yes things will change but BA crew have had it far too easy for far too long. Wake up, get in the real world. BA will not survive unless these conditions are changed
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MarkyMark1234
I have voted yes, as I would really rather see the company go bust then work under those terms and conditions. I am 33% and am very fortunate to have another business.
Before you all go mad, I have worked for the company for 22 years, and this is the worst it has got, I really dont care anymore.
I will not tolerate being bullied by a bunch of pen pushers who know nothing about the airline.
Before you all go mad, I have worked for the company for 22 years, and this is the worst it has got, I really dont care anymore.
I will not tolerate being bullied by a bunch of pen pushers who know nothing about the airline.
When you wrote...
I am afraid the union needs to go, Yes things will change but BA crew have had it far too easy for far too long. Wake up, get in the real world. BA will not survive unless these conditions are changed.
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MarkyMark will probably claim that BA's IT department/BASSA publicity flacks/PCCC saboteurs/the man in the moon has hacked into his email account and forged the messages ostensibly sent by him.
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MarkyMark.
If you found 75% flying so difficult more than 11 years ago that you had to reduce to 33% I think you may not like the job anymore.
It is selfish hoping to bring about 40,000 people to the dole queue just because you are unhappy. Perhaps he best option is for you to leave as you obviously dislike the job and BA. Of course 33% pay is low, what did you expect for working only 33% of the time?
One or two cabin crew off an aircraft is not the end of the world when your pay remains the same. Things could have been far worse.
If you found 75% flying so difficult more than 11 years ago that you had to reduce to 33% I think you may not like the job anymore.
It is selfish hoping to bring about 40,000 people to the dole queue just because you are unhappy. Perhaps he best option is for you to leave as you obviously dislike the job and BA. Of course 33% pay is low, what did you expect for working only 33% of the time?
One or two cabin crew off an aircraft is not the end of the world when your pay remains the same. Things could have been far worse.
Last edited by Jean-Lill; 1st Feb 2010 at 23:51. Reason: Spelling
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MarkyMark
I have just looked back to pae 169 and your post 2969 where you state BA crew have had it too good for too long and things have to change etc...
What has made you change your opinion in such a short time? I thought the first post was a very balanced view.
I have just looked back to pae 169 and your post 2969 where you state BA crew have had it too good for too long and things have to change etc...
What has made you change your opinion in such a short time? I thought the first post was a very balanced view.
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Having spoken directly with the founders of the PCCC, I can confirm that they have no knowledge whatsoever about this page, or its contents. Can only conclude therefore that it is false, and has been set-up in an attempt to undermine the PCCC by spreading lies.
I did say BASSA are deceitful, didn't I? Outright liars is another phrase. Even if it is an individual, it is merely a BASSA soldier ant. I'm sure the big fat queen is following her natural instincts, languishing in the hive demanding protection.
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As ex engineering and now a PAX, could I make a couple of comments;
To those CC who are asking for the nitty gritty details of PCC, the only response that can be given, is that it is a possible alternative representation of CC in discussing with BA in a sensible manner, the needs of everyone involved in trying to keep BA on a stable footing. Because PCC has arisen out of the incompetance of BASSA etc., in the last few weeks, it can only be better formulated as events unfold in the next few weeks.
To try and keep militant levels down, refuse to take anyone as a member of PCC who has been a rep or officer of BASSA etc., in the past 12 -24 months. This is not illegal, there are other unions they can join.
Only accept those that voted NO as this is the percentage of the CC population that you are interested in representing. To anyone who says that this is divisive, the answer is - too late - BASSA has already created that division, coupled with threats and bully boy tactics.
Don't accept anyone who has gone off sick on the vital date(s).
Take the subs level down to £10pcm - you don't need £15, particularly if you have no affiliation fees to pay, or large sums to officers and reps. Extra savings for the members are always welcome.
If as stated you are posting the complete reports etc., on the PCC website, may I suggest that you also post a synopsis, which will allow for a more digestible intake (understanding), coupled with the ability to check the detail if needed.
I wish you all the very best in the outcome of this fiasco, and can only hope that these remenents of trade union job retention activities from the great days of Arthur Scargill (miners), Red Robbo (cars), Merseyside docks, the Newspaper industry (Wapping & the Independant) etc., can feel really proud of standing firm on their principles as they vanish below the surface of civilisation.
Cheers Entaxei.
To those CC who are asking for the nitty gritty details of PCC, the only response that can be given, is that it is a possible alternative representation of CC in discussing with BA in a sensible manner, the needs of everyone involved in trying to keep BA on a stable footing. Because PCC has arisen out of the incompetance of BASSA etc., in the last few weeks, it can only be better formulated as events unfold in the next few weeks.
To try and keep militant levels down, refuse to take anyone as a member of PCC who has been a rep or officer of BASSA etc., in the past 12 -24 months. This is not illegal, there are other unions they can join.
Only accept those that voted NO as this is the percentage of the CC population that you are interested in representing. To anyone who says that this is divisive, the answer is - too late - BASSA has already created that division, coupled with threats and bully boy tactics.
Don't accept anyone who has gone off sick on the vital date(s).
Take the subs level down to £10pcm - you don't need £15, particularly if you have no affiliation fees to pay, or large sums to officers and reps. Extra savings for the members are always welcome.
If as stated you are posting the complete reports etc., on the PCC website, may I suggest that you also post a synopsis, which will allow for a more digestible intake (understanding), coupled with the ability to check the detail if needed.
I wish you all the very best in the outcome of this fiasco, and can only hope that these remenents of trade union job retention activities from the great days of Arthur Scargill (miners), Red Robbo (cars), Merseyside docks, the Newspaper industry (Wapping & the Independant) etc., can feel really proud of standing firm on their principles as they vanish below the surface of civilisation.
Cheers Entaxei.
Last edited by Entaxei; 2nd Feb 2010 at 05:17. Reason: Spell (casting)
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Desperate would describe BASSA best - no doubt they are trying to destroy this.
Can't they - or the person responsible - understand they are only destroying for themselves?
It would be wonderful if this could be mentioned at the court hearing!
Can't they - or the person responsible - understand they are only destroying for themselves?
It would be wonderful if this could be mentioned at the court hearing!
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Taken from the Journallive.co.uk website.
The dispute over new schedules for British Airways cabin crew is to return to the High Court.
The estimated five-day hearing before Sir Christopher Holland in London will resolve whether there should be a permanent injunction preventing BA from imposing cost-cutting proposals.
BA says that it is entitled unilaterally to reduce cabin crew complements on board its Worldwide and Eurofleet flights as these are not terms of individual cabin crew members' contracts.
But the workers union Unite says BA would be in breach of contract by imposing the changes as the existing crew complements were fixed by collective agreements with the unions and were "expressly incorporated" into individual contracts.
In November, when the union agreed "unwillingly" to work the new schedules pending trial, its QC, John Hendy, said the changes would "materially and detrimentally affect the health and well being of staff and passengers on board the flights".
BA's stance was that, while there would be a "modest increase in work output" for cabin crew, there were no health and safety concerns and the granting of an injunction would be a "commercial catastrophe".
Unite is re-balloting its 12,000 cabin crew members at BA for industrial action over the row, with the result due on February 22.
The estimated five-day hearing before Sir Christopher Holland in London will resolve whether there should be a permanent injunction preventing BA from imposing cost-cutting proposals.
BA says that it is entitled unilaterally to reduce cabin crew complements on board its Worldwide and Eurofleet flights as these are not terms of individual cabin crew members' contracts.
But the workers union Unite says BA would be in breach of contract by imposing the changes as the existing crew complements were fixed by collective agreements with the unions and were "expressly incorporated" into individual contracts.
In November, when the union agreed "unwillingly" to work the new schedules pending trial, its QC, John Hendy, said the changes would "materially and detrimentally affect the health and well being of staff and passengers on board the flights".
BA's stance was that, while there would be a "modest increase in work output" for cabin crew, there were no health and safety concerns and the granting of an injunction would be a "commercial catastrophe".
Unite is re-balloting its 12,000 cabin crew members at BA for industrial action over the row, with the result due on February 22.
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Cabin crew courses
I did day one of the three day flight crew conversion today at Cranebank.
It was pretty good to be honest. The trainers have got the right balance of making sure we know what we need to know, without treating us like children.
There are 21 of us on the course. We're about the 5th through so far and there are more planned each week.
We also saw a large group of groundstaff doing their SEP training along with quite a number of new entrants.
We all got some interesting looks from the cabin crew on recurrent training but their is real spirit and determination to keep our customers flying doing the rounds in Cranebank right now! It feels really enabling.
Back in tomorrow for day two.
I did day one of the three day flight crew conversion today at Cranebank.
It was pretty good to be honest. The trainers have got the right balance of making sure we know what we need to know, without treating us like children.
There are 21 of us on the course. We're about the 5th through so far and there are more planned each week.
We also saw a large group of groundstaff doing their SEP training along with quite a number of new entrants.
We all got some interesting looks from the cabin crew on recurrent training but their is real spirit and determination to keep our customers flying doing the rounds in Cranebank right now! It feels really enabling.
Back in tomorrow for day two.
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I have been following this thread for some time. I get the feeling many BA cabin crew are voting Yes to strike action in the hope that WW will cave in and reinstate crewing levels. This is not going to happen, simply because BA cannot afford it. Going on strike is not the answer, believe me I know about these things. I have been on strike myself (20 years ago) and it was awful, sitting at home and wondering when we could get back to work. I ended up losing a lot of pay for no end result. My hope is that cabin crew will really look at things with a new perspective and hand on heart, think..... has my work load increased so drastically, that strike action is really appropriate. You have the best terms and conditions of any British cabin crew and working just a little bit harder isn't the end of the world. Come on guys and girls, please realise that this is just not right. Why do you think many BA employees are turning against cabin crew in large numbers, pilots, engineers, ground staff? It's not because they all have personal vendettas against cabin crew, it's because they strongly believe what BASSA is doing is just WRONG. The savings BASSA proposed were not worth £100 million as you have been lead to believe by your union. It was independently audited by PWC and was valued at around £56 million. That's why BA couldn't agree, it's not a personal attack on cabin crew, it's just that BASSA's sums didn't add up. Some come on BA Cabin crew, let's turn this dispute around and move forward with a positive attitude that together working WITH the management team, you can make BA the fantastic airline it is. You know you want to!
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Go PCCC ( Professional Cabin Crew Council)
See Here:
CabinCrew.com: LET US REPRESENT OURSELVES (NOT BASSA)
See Here:
CabinCrew.com: LET US REPRESENT OURSELVES (NOT BASSA)
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I get the feeling many BA cabin crew are voting Yes to strike action in the hope that WW will cave in and reinstate crewing levels.
The strike is about protecting the overly-lucrative deals of the old contract dinosaurs that run BASSA, many of whom liked their cushy CSD gig before Walsh ask them to earn it.
If, at the end of this week, the judge states that asking the CSDs to join in the service is neither illegal, nor a great hardship, then they will have to come up with some other lie to lure their followers out, otherwise they'll just look stupid, won't they?
And remember - if they call for a strike based on something that hasn't happened, then BA can sue the breasts off them.
Which is why this court case is a watershed. BA will have already mapped out its course of action, regardless of the result - I doubt BASSA have a clue what to do if they win or lose, apart from call their members out "on principle".
Then we'll see how many "Yes" voters have enough principles to survive on 30 quid for each day that they are supposed to work, and have enough principles to throw away their staff travel forever.
Oh, and lets not forget, have enough principles to risk losing their job at British Airways PERMANENTLY.
(And before anyone says "You can't sack someone for being on strike!", please read this thread from the beginning before you make a fool of yourselves yet again).
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Take it the cabin crew member who copied down the list of names of pilots doing cc sep in front of a management pilot in an attempt to 'intimidate' them will be the new martyr as she enters her 'process'!
Take it she won't be looking for any nigel favours in the future! You know the ones we rarely get thanked for, our club rest seats, jumpseats (look up jpm's for clarity ladies), jumping on the crew transport for clingons etc etc. Crm they cry as they refuse to serve coffee in mugs and give us food which jpm's also say we can have!
It's only going to get worse, until all the new crew are trained!
Ps the reason this Nigel asks/takes a first class mug is the club ones don't fit in the holder my Boeing provided and the paper ones are a bit flimsy and are easily spilled. Sorry if that offends.
Take it she won't be looking for any nigel favours in the future! You know the ones we rarely get thanked for, our club rest seats, jumpseats (look up jpm's for clarity ladies), jumping on the crew transport for clingons etc etc. Crm they cry as they refuse to serve coffee in mugs and give us food which jpm's also say we can have!
It's only going to get worse, until all the new crew are trained!
Ps the reason this Nigel asks/takes a first class mug is the club ones don't fit in the holder my Boeing provided and the paper ones are a bit flimsy and are easily spilled. Sorry if that offends.