British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Midman - yup, sounds good to me.
bassa, their ballot is flawed already.
BA, won't contest. Go right ahead baaaaaaassa.
Strike, Strike, Strike. Lemmings/lambs over the cliff-edge.
Midmans scenario plays out.
GF
bassa, their ballot is flawed already.
BA, won't contest. Go right ahead baaaaaaassa.
Strike, Strike, Strike. Lemmings/lambs over the cliff-edge.
Midmans scenario plays out.
GF
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 553
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Watersidewonker
...for sure i only know of one or two No voters and thats a choice they make, life is too short.
Sensible and genuine question though:
As you so obviously harbour such hatred for your employer why not leave and go elsewhere like anyone else would have done long since?
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
watersidewonker.
Please, Please strike, the rest of your colleagues in BA want to see you and others like you gone. People in my area have volunteered in droves to replace you. We are aware of the conditions our company is operating in and we want it to survive. BA may not be paradise but it's a lot better many other companies out there and miles better than the dole queue.
Please, Please strike, the rest of your colleagues in BA want to see you and others like you gone. People in my area have volunteered in droves to replace you. We are aware of the conditions our company is operating in and we want it to survive. BA may not be paradise but it's a lot better many other companies out there and miles better than the dole queue.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How about the following as a likely BA plan:
Court case in February, BA likely to win.
Fairly strong yes vote for a strike.
BA point out to BASSA that ballot is illegal, same reasons as before.
BA do not however go to court to prevent strike.
Strike starts some time in March, but not over easter.
BA immediately sack strikers, and anyone calling in sick.
Strike over almost before it starts.
Sacked CC take BA to tribunal for unfair dissmissal.
BA now challenge legality of strike, then contest the unfair dissmissal claims. BA may lose but the process could take years, and meanwhile, those sacked are still unemployed.
Court case in February, BA likely to win.
Fairly strong yes vote for a strike.
BA point out to BASSA that ballot is illegal, same reasons as before.
BA do not however go to court to prevent strike.
Strike starts some time in March, but not over easter.
BA immediately sack strikers, and anyone calling in sick.
Strike over almost before it starts.
Sacked CC take BA to tribunal for unfair dissmissal.
BA now challenge legality of strike, then contest the unfair dissmissal claims. BA may lose but the process could take years, and meanwhile, those sacked are still unemployed.
Court case in February, BA likely to win.
However if BA lose Court case:
BA immediately issue 90-day notification of termination of contracts under SOSR to all Cabin Crew on 2nd February
BASSA in the stew and under intense pressure and likely to implode/capitulate during February (and certainly ostracise Amicus/CC89 as Satan - again)
In the meantime continue flying until 1st March (earliest strike date)
Plan 1st March schedule to operate key flights on B777 and A320 (and A318 LCY-JFK) flights during any strike
Fairly strong yes vote for a strike announced on/after 22nd February
[we are now already 30 days into 12 week strike protection period]
If it comes to a strike:
Any strikers/sickees will be noted!
Strike fails within 12 hours
BASSA denounce everyone (including their own members for liking foresight) and crawl back to lalaland to lick their wounds, never to be seen again in their current 1970's format.
BA resume normal operations and impose revised disruption agreement to not a whimper of discontent (and other contractural changes, including STR arrangements at LHR for EF)
BA announce New Fleet as previously announced as being either A320/B787and B777 or A320/A380 and B777 (remember crews can only be 'licensed' on 3 types at once) on market +10% on mixed flying and leave the dinosaurs to either continue flying the B747 + a reducing (non long range proportion of the) B777 fleet or for them to migrate to New Fleet for promotion.
Game, set and match to BA .... bye bye BASSA
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: An anger-management clinic.
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My thanks to those who explained the FlyBE/BA link. His comments may not be popular with the airline that owns 15% then. Oh, well, just another complicated dimension in this incredibly confusing saga. 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Uk
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Over 1000 pilots have already said they will work as cc, and by the end of Feb will all be trained, trainers at Cranebank are happy to train them as they dont want to strike or see to company fail.
All other departments are talking of similar numbers wanting to help BA too..
The only losser here will be Bassa/CC. My thought is that after Bassa have been wiped away, the strong teamwork of BA's flexible staff will see the company go on to be stronger than ever before..
That gets my vote of support for BA !!!!!!
All other departments are talking of similar numbers wanting to help BA too..
The only losser here will be Bassa/CC. My thought is that after Bassa have been wiped away, the strong teamwork of BA's flexible staff will see the company go on to be stronger than ever before..
That gets my vote of support for BA !!!!!!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If BA wins at the High Court you also have to factor in the fact that BA will make a claim against Unite for its legal costs, and whether the internal politics at Unite come into play and BASSA gets reigned in.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: England
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carribbean Boy
Good evening,
you are right re. legal strikes and dismissal. However,don't forget breach of contract. So even though the strike is lawful the person striking has in effect ripped up their contract. Therefore, the terms they return on could be different from those they left on!
They may also be locked out until the employer decides they can return, (unpaid). The lockout days are added to the 12 week protection period.
Ultimately, I think they could be dismissed within the 12 week period, but as the strike is protected they can claim a defined amount of compensation. If the employer then doesn't reinstate them they can claim again, I think the figure they can claim here is more uncertain.
There are loads of postings on this subject.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
My thoughts re. a previous post, not representative of my employer or anyone else.
you are right re. legal strikes and dismissal. However,don't forget breach of contract. So even though the strike is lawful the person striking has in effect ripped up their contract. Therefore, the terms they return on could be different from those they left on!
They may also be locked out until the employer decides they can return, (unpaid). The lockout days are added to the 12 week protection period.
Ultimately, I think they could be dismissed within the 12 week period, but as the strike is protected they can claim a defined amount of compensation. If the employer then doesn't reinstate them they can claim again, I think the figure they can claim here is more uncertain.
There are loads of postings on this subject.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
My thoughts re. a previous post, not representative of my employer or anyone else.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If Unite win?
I'm not clear as to what remedies will be available for CC for the period between imposition of changes and the date proper notice of changes to contracts take effect (I would not assume everyone will get a "one-down payment", that may be determined by the courts and may involve more litigation).
BA will have to go through the proper process to change contracts, so it will have to serve 90 days notice of change to contract, possibly with a lot of other changes as well...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True, but would BA be allowed further imposition if they were appealing a ruling for imposition?
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: brighton
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
really
WATERSIDE WONKER
Maybe I should applaud your perseverance and loyalty to BASSA but you simply havent read any of the posts here regarding the consequences of a yes vote both to yourselves and the company. Maybe you have read them but chosen or been blind to the arguments and in particular where you will legally stand as a striker.Also you can`t have read what the company have offered you as a safeguard.
If you were a person of reason and understood the precarious state of the business you will see there is need for changes.
Few will affect you in reality.
FLY LADY
To quote you
``Got my ballot paper this morning could not find the NO option so put a lovely X on the YES box and kissed the baby before posting it.``
Did you kiss your job goodbye at the same time???? Because if there is a yes vote effectively you have!!!
As with wonker you have refused to listen to the counter arguments and reason things through.
I wish you both luck in your future career outside of BA
Please read the customer comments on here.. (you know them , the people who pay your wages) and you will see the level of mediocrity from cabin crew they have to put up with.
Maybe I should applaud your perseverance and loyalty to BASSA but you simply havent read any of the posts here regarding the consequences of a yes vote both to yourselves and the company. Maybe you have read them but chosen or been blind to the arguments and in particular where you will legally stand as a striker.Also you can`t have read what the company have offered you as a safeguard.
If you were a person of reason and understood the precarious state of the business you will see there is need for changes.
Few will affect you in reality.
FLY LADY
To quote you
``Got my ballot paper this morning could not find the NO option so put a lovely X on the YES box and kissed the baby before posting it.``
Did you kiss your job goodbye at the same time???? Because if there is a yes vote effectively you have!!!
As with wonker you have refused to listen to the counter arguments and reason things through.
I wish you both luck in your future career outside of BA
Please read the customer comments on here.. (you know them , the people who pay your wages) and you will see the level of mediocrity from cabin crew they have to put up with.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The hearing is to decide whether the imposition of reduced cabin crew is contractual or not.
If BA lost and appealed, there is nothing to stop them imposing anything else they might like. They are not answerable to this court on IMPOSING changes to cabin crew working agreements, only on the specific case of cabin crew complements.
A more likely scenario is a 90 day notice to make the changes fully legal even if Bassa won the case.
(20% chance of that, IMHO)
If BA lost and appealed, there is nothing to stop them imposing anything else they might like. They are not answerable to this court on IMPOSING changes to cabin crew working agreements, only on the specific case of cabin crew complements.
A more likely scenario is a 90 day notice to make the changes fully legal even if Bassa won the case.
(20% chance of that, IMHO)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Will BA sack striking crew
Some people think that BA will sack striking CC within the 12 week protected strike action period, but can point to little evidence that BA will do such a thing. It's easy to get worked up over such a possibility, but now is the time for cool heads.
Just bear in mind that BA will surely shoot itself in the foot for acting illegally. Remember, BA now has the upper hand in the PR battle due to Unite's blunder in calling for a 12-day strike over Christmas. And this is quite important: the strike isn't just about Unite v BA, it's about winning the hearts and minds of the public who are thinking about whether to do any more business with BA. Right now, the score is Unite 0 BA 1.
Just bear in mind that BA will surely shoot itself in the foot for acting illegally. Remember, BA now has the upper hand in the PR battle due to Unite's blunder in calling for a 12-day strike over Christmas. And this is quite important: the strike isn't just about Unite v BA, it's about winning the hearts and minds of the public who are thinking about whether to do any more business with BA. Right now, the score is Unite 0 BA 1.
........Staff travel will be taken away..........
Fat Chance. " You play ball with me, and I'll stick the bat right up your ........ "
Be very aware.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LHR
Age: 48
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
more BASSA texts
Hello, just received two texts from BASSA, and an email. The texts are reminding me to vote yes and the mail is about the 'Wailing Wall' - some wall at Waterside that people have left messages on about backing BA, according to BASSA some of it is derogitory (sp?) to crew. Haven't seen it myself so cannot say. It would appear that BASSA are sending out texts to garner support, and why? Do you think that the removal of staff travel from people who strike is really making people think voting no may be a sensible option? Speaking to people on line, it really seems so.
No Staff Travel = No job = No income
Been speaking to my friend about the proposals, and reasons for going on strike, we cannot agree on it because:
1. Although he knows the strike is about the imposition, it's 'What if we get our wages reduced? What if we get starved of work?
2. This fixed payment - lots of people think that that payment replaces our WHOLE payment structure when it does not, and this pointed out to him. It just covers the CAT and EDP etc, not the meal allowances ( we are on EF).
I am trying to get my points across, but having great difficulty because of all the propaganda from BASSA. So to all you wavering voters out there, a final plea:
You are striking over the imposition, is it really so bad in this day and age? Lots of friends of mine in the airline industry are being made redundant and are looking on gobsmacked that we are going on strike over this issue. BA are in a bad way, and you want to strike? What do you actually expect to achieve? What is your desired outcome? I am not against striking, infact I very much believe in it, but would it not be better to wait until New Fleet is introduced, and then ballot? I honestly think that if we had waited until New Fleet was here, we may have had greater support, but no. The strike at Christmas finished that off.
Rant over...
AD
No Staff Travel = No job = No income
Been speaking to my friend about the proposals, and reasons for going on strike, we cannot agree on it because:
1. Although he knows the strike is about the imposition, it's 'What if we get our wages reduced? What if we get starved of work?
2. This fixed payment - lots of people think that that payment replaces our WHOLE payment structure when it does not, and this pointed out to him. It just covers the CAT and EDP etc, not the meal allowances ( we are on EF).
I am trying to get my points across, but having great difficulty because of all the propaganda from BASSA. So to all you wavering voters out there, a final plea:
You are striking over the imposition, is it really so bad in this day and age? Lots of friends of mine in the airline industry are being made redundant and are looking on gobsmacked that we are going on strike over this issue. BA are in a bad way, and you want to strike? What do you actually expect to achieve? What is your desired outcome? I am not against striking, infact I very much believe in it, but would it not be better to wait until New Fleet is introduced, and then ballot? I honestly think that if we had waited until New Fleet was here, we may have had greater support, but no. The strike at Christmas finished that off.
Rant over...
AD