British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Hi Reargunner thanks for your reply.
I largely agree with you and predict huge changes in the not so distant future very much including pp24 pay being less than i currently receive by the time i get there.
Time will tell if FC have adapted quickly enough to avoid the corporate gunsight. Bassa clearly have not and it's now deemed cheaper to break bassa than negotiate. The refusal to move beyond 1970 at fortress Heathrow made this inevitable.
That is a history who's accuracy we can debate, my point is that right here right now there are two very unpleasant choices and you all have to decide which one will do the least harm. I cannot see a victory for bassa.
Best wishes sd
I largely agree with you and predict huge changes in the not so distant future very much including pp24 pay being less than i currently receive by the time i get there.
Time will tell if FC have adapted quickly enough to avoid the corporate gunsight. Bassa clearly have not and it's now deemed cheaper to break bassa than negotiate. The refusal to move beyond 1970 at fortress Heathrow made this inevitable.
That is a history who's accuracy we can debate, my point is that right here right now there are two very unpleasant choices and you all have to decide which one will do the least harm. I cannot see a victory for bassa.
Best wishes sd
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I would be grateful if you could allow me to interpose between the expressions of internecine feuding hitherto set out in this thread to provide a customer’s point of view. I will not demean myself by assuming the egregious SLF sobriquet. Put simply, I and the rest of those who travel BA are customers who contribute revenue the company so desperately needs to maintain its operations in the current harsh economic environment.
I am a frequent traveller who chooses, wherever possible, to fly BA. I do so because I believe my choice goes some way to promote the country’s economy as well as keeping folks in a job who will ultimately pay taxes to maintain my pension and benefits further downstream. In a way it’s an “I’ll scratch your back if you will scratch mine” relationship. I’ll also say I’m intensely proud of British institutions and up until now that has included BA. Like one person has already mentioned, I've felt at home the moment I step onto one of the company’s aircraft at airports all around the world. Perhaps I should also declare an interest in the current situation because I’m due to fly Club to/from Hong Kong in a few days and Los Angeles in March.
Recent statements from the union side about no intention of striking across Easter are of no comfort to me. So far as I can tell, my return journey from KLAX is in jeopardy. Consequently, I will reluctantly be making alternative arrangements with another One World carrier to avoid uncertainty. One person’s return Club class fare may not be a big deal but you can bet many like me will take similar action thus inflicting great financial harm on BA. I’m sorry if people are already way ahead of me on this, but I still think it’s worth an ordinary customer stating the “bl**dy obvious”.
By announcing that strikes will not be held over Easter, the union side is suggesting its aim is not to disrupt holiday traffic. That begs a question. Is the strike tactic aimed at depriving the company only of its most important revenue flows - that is from first and business travellers? But these people are the very folks most capable of finding alternative carriers who provide higher degrees of certainty of service provision. If they do, I wonder how many will come back to BA once fear of industrial action is over. Some might but many won’t.
All BA employees need to wake up to reality and I suspect many have. The general public does not discriminate between BA management, office workers, engineering, ground operations and aircrew. It sees only British Airways. The general view is, even if the latest strike is avoided, there will be another dispute in the wings just waiting to take centre stage thus perpetuating uncertainty and dissuading them from booking BA . Can you wonder therefore why ABBA, the rallying cry of travelling public, is reaching a crescendo?
Read the exasperation expressed in the comments sections of on-line newspapers to understand that in the current economic circumstances, where everyone is hurting, there is no place for pointless industrial action. Like so many other businesses, BA has been creative about holding on to core staff and providing work arounds to maintain employment and services. Sadly, some of its people have had to leave. Unless all of the company’s employees work together to save BA, the rest of you will be joining your recently released colleagues on far less advantageous terms. The country will be poorer for the loss of a great British icon such as BA but no institution has a right to survive.
Lastly a few words directly to BA cabin crew. I would suggest the next time you walk through the premium cabins during a flight look upon the passengers there as “pay packets”. Then consider every empty seat, along with those occupied by colleagues on staff travel concessions, as a loss of pay! You can increase the pay packet pool by providing not only professional but also consistent service. By and large, the airline’s customers want only one thing. They want to book their seats and then turn up at the airport in the certainty they can depart on or about the scheduled time of the flight service they have paid for. You will have started to complete your ballots indicating your support of further industrial action and you have the strike sanction at your disposal. But before you tick the “Yes” box remember the travelling public whose plans you are about to disrupt also has the sanction to go elsewhere for its flights. It will be for you to decide which is the more powerful of these two sanctions and which will impact most upon your personal circumstances.
I trust reason will prevail and BA has an opportunity to weather this particular storm.
I am a frequent traveller who chooses, wherever possible, to fly BA. I do so because I believe my choice goes some way to promote the country’s economy as well as keeping folks in a job who will ultimately pay taxes to maintain my pension and benefits further downstream. In a way it’s an “I’ll scratch your back if you will scratch mine” relationship. I’ll also say I’m intensely proud of British institutions and up until now that has included BA. Like one person has already mentioned, I've felt at home the moment I step onto one of the company’s aircraft at airports all around the world. Perhaps I should also declare an interest in the current situation because I’m due to fly Club to/from Hong Kong in a few days and Los Angeles in March.
Recent statements from the union side about no intention of striking across Easter are of no comfort to me. So far as I can tell, my return journey from KLAX is in jeopardy. Consequently, I will reluctantly be making alternative arrangements with another One World carrier to avoid uncertainty. One person’s return Club class fare may not be a big deal but you can bet many like me will take similar action thus inflicting great financial harm on BA. I’m sorry if people are already way ahead of me on this, but I still think it’s worth an ordinary customer stating the “bl**dy obvious”.
By announcing that strikes will not be held over Easter, the union side is suggesting its aim is not to disrupt holiday traffic. That begs a question. Is the strike tactic aimed at depriving the company only of its most important revenue flows - that is from first and business travellers? But these people are the very folks most capable of finding alternative carriers who provide higher degrees of certainty of service provision. If they do, I wonder how many will come back to BA once fear of industrial action is over. Some might but many won’t.
All BA employees need to wake up to reality and I suspect many have. The general public does not discriminate between BA management, office workers, engineering, ground operations and aircrew. It sees only British Airways. The general view is, even if the latest strike is avoided, there will be another dispute in the wings just waiting to take centre stage thus perpetuating uncertainty and dissuading them from booking BA . Can you wonder therefore why ABBA, the rallying cry of travelling public, is reaching a crescendo?
Read the exasperation expressed in the comments sections of on-line newspapers to understand that in the current economic circumstances, where everyone is hurting, there is no place for pointless industrial action. Like so many other businesses, BA has been creative about holding on to core staff and providing work arounds to maintain employment and services. Sadly, some of its people have had to leave. Unless all of the company’s employees work together to save BA, the rest of you will be joining your recently released colleagues on far less advantageous terms. The country will be poorer for the loss of a great British icon such as BA but no institution has a right to survive.
Lastly a few words directly to BA cabin crew. I would suggest the next time you walk through the premium cabins during a flight look upon the passengers there as “pay packets”. Then consider every empty seat, along with those occupied by colleagues on staff travel concessions, as a loss of pay! You can increase the pay packet pool by providing not only professional but also consistent service. By and large, the airline’s customers want only one thing. They want to book their seats and then turn up at the airport in the certainty they can depart on or about the scheduled time of the flight service they have paid for. You will have started to complete your ballots indicating your support of further industrial action and you have the strike sanction at your disposal. But before you tick the “Yes” box remember the travelling public whose plans you are about to disrupt also has the sanction to go elsewhere for its flights. It will be for you to decide which is the more powerful of these two sanctions and which will impact most upon your personal circumstances.
I trust reason will prevail and BA has an opportunity to weather this particular storm.
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Reargunner
Typical head in sand approach! And i know from previous experience you are regular contributer to BASSA forum so feel free to post your post and my reply on BASSA forum.
1) The imposition was brought in after BASSA refused to accept any of BA`s proposals and as the first attempt to try and prevent the company from haeemmorraging money. Thanks to BASSA/UNITE`s efforts you can be sure that is continuing as your customers desert in droves.
You have been driven into a corner by BASSA. If the BA proposals were accepted or reasonable alternative that fitted the cost savings required given by BASSSA then you wouldnt now be in this LOSE/LOSE situation.
BF has said there will be no new fleet until the business picks up.
As for creating contracts that will not make staying attractive. Your contract will NOT change! There will be the proposed changes in working practices. What will happen of course is that the new fleet as and when it is introduced will operate the routes where you are expensive and over time your fleet of dinosaurs will dwindle with less lucrative variable pay (long range premium payments) and no promotion opportunities, That is the the inevitable. Your choice is to accept this or not.Look ar Qantas and their low cost crew operation as an example. Their union I believe lost ALL their cases in the High Court.
The protection for existing contracts is written into the BA proposals.
People who join the new fleet will be well aware of their terms and conditions and they will be their terms and conditons they have to work to. NOT YOU!!
So why will you be forced to leave?
Only BASSA through their actions will break the union. If you go on or vote for a strike that is the end of BASSA/UNITE in BA.
Interesting point on the value of experience. You may or may not have a point there. All I can say is that the ``deadwood` who served me recently on several flights were long past their `best by` date and should have considered their value to the company? Or is it better to have new fresh faced enthusaistic people? It`s a question of balance. The new fleet wil have experienced people who will transfer there for promotion. So therefore a few mother hens to look after the spring chickens. Another analogy is what would you choose? An old broiler or fresh chicken?
I would suggest you don`t look at the pilots or any other area of the business.What this is about is purely the Cabin Crews` relationship with the company. How you negotiate,and how you as crew help the long term future of the business and again save your jobs by accepting the mess the company is in and the changing face of aviation and competition out there and adapt your side of the business accordingly is the point. Has anyone considered how easy it will be to put the company into administration and start again with EVERYONE on new contracts and terms? Don`t think it won`t happen and I say again there will be no government bail out of BA. It is a PLC now not BOAC and BOAC.
Typical head in sand approach! And i know from previous experience you are regular contributer to BASSA forum so feel free to post your post and my reply on BASSA forum.
1) The imposition was brought in after BASSA refused to accept any of BA`s proposals and as the first attempt to try and prevent the company from haeemmorraging money. Thanks to BASSA/UNITE`s efforts you can be sure that is continuing as your customers desert in droves.
You have been driven into a corner by BASSA. If the BA proposals were accepted or reasonable alternative that fitted the cost savings required given by BASSSA then you wouldnt now be in this LOSE/LOSE situation.
BF has said there will be no new fleet until the business picks up.
As for creating contracts that will not make staying attractive. Your contract will NOT change! There will be the proposed changes in working practices. What will happen of course is that the new fleet as and when it is introduced will operate the routes where you are expensive and over time your fleet of dinosaurs will dwindle with less lucrative variable pay (long range premium payments) and no promotion opportunities, That is the the inevitable. Your choice is to accept this or not.Look ar Qantas and their low cost crew operation as an example. Their union I believe lost ALL their cases in the High Court.
The protection for existing contracts is written into the BA proposals.
People who join the new fleet will be well aware of their terms and conditions and they will be their terms and conditons they have to work to. NOT YOU!!
So why will you be forced to leave?
Only BASSA through their actions will break the union. If you go on or vote for a strike that is the end of BASSA/UNITE in BA.
Interesting point on the value of experience. You may or may not have a point there. All I can say is that the ``deadwood` who served me recently on several flights were long past their `best by` date and should have considered their value to the company? Or is it better to have new fresh faced enthusaistic people? It`s a question of balance. The new fleet wil have experienced people who will transfer there for promotion. So therefore a few mother hens to look after the spring chickens. Another analogy is what would you choose? An old broiler or fresh chicken?
I would suggest you don`t look at the pilots or any other area of the business.What this is about is purely the Cabin Crews` relationship with the company. How you negotiate,and how you as crew help the long term future of the business and again save your jobs by accepting the mess the company is in and the changing face of aviation and competition out there and adapt your side of the business accordingly is the point. Has anyone considered how easy it will be to put the company into administration and start again with EVERYONE on new contracts and terms? Don`t think it won`t happen and I say again there will be no government bail out of BA. It is a PLC now not BOAC and BOAC.
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If this is true then it is outrageous!
TorC
Treat your membership as imbeciles? A fine way to lose everything!
TorC
A colleague encountered a bassa rep the other day. Upon asking why there is another ballot, and what bassa hoped to achieve by it, they were told that it's "far too complicated for you to understand".
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@ ExecClubPax ... a very reasonable, comprehensive and calm summation of the passengers' viewpoint, for which I thank you.
I know [and have been reminded firmly on a couple of occasions] that this Forum is for Cabin Crew. However, it is still a public Forum, and injections of reality from the millions of BA pax are, in my view, a significant part of the debate.
I regard myself fortunate that I have never had to work in a unionised envirnment. I can understand that BA staff regard their personal T&C as significant issues. However, I cannot comprehend the mental processes that lead to a causus bellum which could drive their employer out of business. I sincerely hope that common-sense and self-preservation eventually prevail.
I remain firmly in the ABBA corner until I, like you, have a reasonable certainty that my pre-booked flight [at some Ł2,000 per sector] will happen as advertised. My main regret is that I pre-booked my next flights before this "dispute" became general knowledge.
I know [and have been reminded firmly on a couple of occasions] that this Forum is for Cabin Crew. However, it is still a public Forum, and injections of reality from the millions of BA pax are, in my view, a significant part of the debate.
I regard myself fortunate that I have never had to work in a unionised envirnment. I can understand that BA staff regard their personal T&C as significant issues. However, I cannot comprehend the mental processes that lead to a causus bellum which could drive their employer out of business. I sincerely hope that common-sense and self-preservation eventually prevail.
I remain firmly in the ABBA corner until I, like you, have a reasonable certainty that my pre-booked flight [at some Ł2,000 per sector] will happen as advertised. My main regret is that I pre-booked my next flights before this "dispute" became general knowledge.
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davecr
short memory have we. Wind the clock back a few years and i seem to remember BALPA calling a strike vote in response to Open Skies crewing.Would BALPA (if the courts had not ruled against them) have taken the BA pilots out on a meaningless strike just like the cabin crew are doing ?
short memory have we. Wind the clock back a few years and i seem to remember BALPA calling a strike vote in response to Open Skies crewing.Would BALPA (if the courts had not ruled against them) have taken the BA pilots out on a meaningless strike just like the cabin crew are doing ?
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Golden Ticket,
Thanks for the critique. For background, I have been involved in the aviation industry for the best part of 3 decades. I am only tempted to post when I observe something that I perceive to be wholly inaccurate, unfair or in some other way warranting a response. I ventured one on this occasion, I stick by it and I certainly don't see it as 'daft'. I perceived the statement by 'crewboy' to have scant regard for his colleagues elsewhere, who are no doubt pedalling like mad, especially during disruptions and unsupported in his posting by any factual statistics or indicative information i.e. a sweeping statement (including the words 'by far'). Asfar as lateness is concerned there are many forms of employment where the consequences of lateness are significant. For the individual, wages can be docked and repeat incidences can be a matter for disciplinaries. This is not unique to your own walk of life. We all have to live with these potential sanctions. In a wider sense, lateness causing cancellation of events such as meetings where decisions need to be taken impact on the business. It is not just about the individual. I do not see anthing special in an indivdual being able to report in a timely fashion for his / her task, whatever that might be. It seems you are focusing on the potential inconvenience to yourself, if you are late, in terms of having to be re-rostered and also sanctions which exist for employees, almost everywhere else, in the manner you have described.
Hope this clarifies, Regards, Ted
Thanks for the critique. For background, I have been involved in the aviation industry for the best part of 3 decades. I am only tempted to post when I observe something that I perceive to be wholly inaccurate, unfair or in some other way warranting a response. I ventured one on this occasion, I stick by it and I certainly don't see it as 'daft'. I perceived the statement by 'crewboy' to have scant regard for his colleagues elsewhere, who are no doubt pedalling like mad, especially during disruptions and unsupported in his posting by any factual statistics or indicative information i.e. a sweeping statement (including the words 'by far'). Asfar as lateness is concerned there are many forms of employment where the consequences of lateness are significant. For the individual, wages can be docked and repeat incidences can be a matter for disciplinaries. This is not unique to your own walk of life. We all have to live with these potential sanctions. In a wider sense, lateness causing cancellation of events such as meetings where decisions need to be taken impact on the business. It is not just about the individual. I do not see anthing special in an indivdual being able to report in a timely fashion for his / her task, whatever that might be. It seems you are focusing on the potential inconvenience to yourself, if you are late, in terms of having to be re-rostered and also sanctions which exist for employees, almost everywhere else, in the manner you have described.
Hope this clarifies, Regards, Ted
Last edited by teddybear44; 25th Jan 2010 at 18:09.
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What all crew must realise when they put their mark on the ballot paper is what future they want for themselves and how they wished to be represented by their union.
BASSA has catastrophically failed them in its dealings with BA. It WILL be defeated in the coming dispute - BA are NOT going to walk away from this one - and where does that then leave crew with regard to union representation? BASSA will be a spent force and all agreements will be ripped up and re-written - then crew will REALLY know what its like to have terms and conditions imposed on them..
Not voting is not an option. Vote no, send a clear signal to the BASSA leadership team and then send an even clearer signal by organising a vote of no confidence in the current BASSA reps.
You MUST have a strong union to look after you but one that does your bidding and engages with the company. Starting a separate union merely dilutes your power.
Taking control of your own union will empower you all to look after yourselves and not just the elite at the top of the pile - who is REALLY affected by this 'imposition' anyway?
BASSA has catastrophically failed them in its dealings with BA. It WILL be defeated in the coming dispute - BA are NOT going to walk away from this one - and where does that then leave crew with regard to union representation? BASSA will be a spent force and all agreements will be ripped up and re-written - then crew will REALLY know what its like to have terms and conditions imposed on them..
Not voting is not an option. Vote no, send a clear signal to the BASSA leadership team and then send an even clearer signal by organising a vote of no confidence in the current BASSA reps.
You MUST have a strong union to look after you but one that does your bidding and engages with the company. Starting a separate union merely dilutes your power.
Taking control of your own union will empower you all to look after yourselves and not just the elite at the top of the pile - who is REALLY affected by this 'imposition' anyway?
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Dear stormin norman
Can I kindly remind you that OpenSkies was as much our battle as yours? BASSA decided they weren't interested in cabin crew jobs being outsourced, where BALPA was - that was the only difference.
Also, it was called in the most profitable trading period in BA's history, when BA could clearly afford to keep this operation in house - not on the brink of financial meltdown.
You were saying?
Also, it was called in the most profitable trading period in BA's history, when BA could clearly afford to keep this operation in house - not on the brink of financial meltdown.
You were saying?
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Reargunner
If we're 'celebrating' anything it's that the BASSA monster will hopefully no longer have a crippling grip over the running of our company, particularly in times of disruption. Maybe we'll even be able to turn a profit without relying in unsustainable economic booms.
BA flight crew are paid, by and large, the same as or similar to other UK flight crew. Even now, in the depts of a recession, all but the highest paid BA captains could leave BA and join Ryanair (who are crying out for captains) and earn as much as they do with BA.
As far as I can see LGW CC and the temp crews are the only BA CC that are near market rate. All other BA CC are highly overpaid, particularly CSDs. Where could a CSD (or any other LHR permanent contract CC member) go to earn even similar money?? No where!!
If BA opened CC recruitment tomorrow there'd be a queue a mile long of people who were willing, capable and qualified to do the job of BA CC to a very high standard - and for half the average BA CC salary! This is not even slightly exaggerated.
Even in boom times BA had no problems recruiting crew to work at LGW at market rate, with much lower crew complements, on contracts very similar to what's proposed for New Fleet. And any argument regarding 'premium' crew is rubbish. LGW are as good as any BA CC. 777 pilots (who fly with both) always rave about how great the LGW CC are. GPMs (customer satisfaction surveys) actually show customer satisfaction is slightly higher at LGW than LHR, even though they operate with far fewer, and less experienced crew onboard.
It's all basic supply vs demand principles really.
I'm surprised how many BA pilots seem to celebrate the new ideology of our management.
I imagine that the only reason this is happening to cabin crew before pilots is because of the huge difference in training costs. As long as it is more cost effective to keep Captains and FO's for their 24 annual increments (than to recruit and train newer cheaper pilots) then I don't doubt the existing system will be kept.
As far as I can see LGW CC and the temp crews are the only BA CC that are near market rate. All other BA CC are highly overpaid, particularly CSDs. Where could a CSD (or any other LHR permanent contract CC member) go to earn even similar money?? No where!!
If BA opened CC recruitment tomorrow there'd be a queue a mile long of people who were willing, capable and qualified to do the job of BA CC to a very high standard - and for half the average BA CC salary! This is not even slightly exaggerated.
Even in boom times BA had no problems recruiting crew to work at LGW at market rate, with much lower crew complements, on contracts very similar to what's proposed for New Fleet. And any argument regarding 'premium' crew is rubbish. LGW are as good as any BA CC. 777 pilots (who fly with both) always rave about how great the LGW CC are. GPMs (customer satisfaction surveys) actually show customer satisfaction is slightly higher at LGW than LHR, even though they operate with far fewer, and less experienced crew onboard.
It's all basic supply vs demand principles really.
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Can we, once and for all, put to rest one simple little fact.
This dispute and ballot is not about, nor was it ever about New Fleet!
Unite agreed that with BA during the failed negotiations after the first ballot. This ballot is, was and always will be about imposition. NOTHING MORE.
With that in mind you need to ask yourselves why did BASSA/Unite not ensure that their voting membership were well aware and adequately briefed on what they were balloting about? Why did BASSA not annotate very clearly on the original ballot paper that the dispute was only about imposition? Why have BASSA/Unite continued to not only allow the misconception about New Fleet but actively encouraged it? New Fleet will be another battle to be fought after this one, if the company can survive that long!
BASSA clearly wish to keep their membership ill informed and in the dark simply to ensure a good mandate for strike.
Is that really adequate representation?
This dispute and ballot is not about, nor was it ever about New Fleet!
Unite agreed that with BA during the failed negotiations after the first ballot. This ballot is, was and always will be about imposition. NOTHING MORE.
With that in mind you need to ask yourselves why did BASSA/Unite not ensure that their voting membership were well aware and adequately briefed on what they were balloting about? Why did BASSA not annotate very clearly on the original ballot paper that the dispute was only about imposition? Why have BASSA/Unite continued to not only allow the misconception about New Fleet but actively encouraged it? New Fleet will be another battle to be fought after this one, if the company can survive that long!
BASSA clearly wish to keep their membership ill informed and in the dark simply to ensure a good mandate for strike.
Is that really adequate representation?
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Crew are mislead en masse.
When you work in the CRC almost every day you will hear different arguments - different views - different opinions. Most worrying is that many haven't got a clue what it's all about.
To the forum member with the initials JF from another forum - please stop with your scaremongering propaganda whenever you are in the CRC - it will only be to everyone's disadvantage - trying to convince crew about "the bigger picture" and not only about the imposition, which the ballot is about, as to why vote yes is hardly fair.
Why has UNITE presented a new proposal? I thought there were to be no talks between UNITE and BA as requested per BASSA's members.
According to a few other crew members overheard today discussing UNITE's propsal today they thought:
- It's more than what BA deserves.
- UNITE is far too generous.
- WW can **** off.
- We're running out of patience.
- The postman can wait at the door because I will be sending back my ballot paper with a big fat YES.
When you work in the CRC almost every day you will hear different arguments - different views - different opinions. Most worrying is that many haven't got a clue what it's all about.
To the forum member with the initials JF from another forum - please stop with your scaremongering propaganda whenever you are in the CRC - it will only be to everyone's disadvantage - trying to convince crew about "the bigger picture" and not only about the imposition, which the ballot is about, as to why vote yes is hardly fair.
Why has UNITE presented a new proposal? I thought there were to be no talks between UNITE and BA as requested per BASSA's members.
According to a few other crew members overheard today discussing UNITE's propsal today they thought:
- It's more than what BA deserves.
- UNITE is far too generous.
- WW can **** off.
- We're running out of patience.
- The postman can wait at the door because I will be sending back my ballot paper with a big fat YES.
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I would echo what WinstonSmith says, that crew are being seriously mislead:
Myths about Voting Yes
“I am voting to protect my T&Cs”
Our T&Cs have not yet been touched; we have simply had one crew member taken off a plane. Our pay has not been affected; it has stayed the same. Our days off have not been affected, they have stayed the same. Our nights down route have not been affected, they have stayed the same. However, BA has made it clear, that for every strike day, they will deduct money from our budget. Striking will not protect your T&Cs. Striking will severely damage T&Cs for cabin crew.
If you vote yes, then please understand that you will have to strike. You are putting our company, our jobs, and once again, our cabin crew reputation at risk.
Strikes do not save jobs, and this one serves no purpose whatsoever. We are all working the new crew complements, and we have suffered no real hardship.
Think very carefully. This is very serious. All our futures depend on it.
I am BA cabin crew and the above represents my own view and not that of BA.
Myths about Voting Yes
- “A YES vote means that BA will start talking.”
- “BA always threaten to take away staff travel permanently”
- “BA shouldn’t have imposed”.
- “I will vote yes and then make my mind up what to do.”
- “I will vote yes and then go sick”.
“I am voting to protect my T&Cs”
Our T&Cs have not yet been touched; we have simply had one crew member taken off a plane. Our pay has not been affected; it has stayed the same. Our days off have not been affected, they have stayed the same. Our nights down route have not been affected, they have stayed the same. However, BA has made it clear, that for every strike day, they will deduct money from our budget. Striking will not protect your T&Cs. Striking will severely damage T&Cs for cabin crew.
If you vote yes, then please understand that you will have to strike. You are putting our company, our jobs, and once again, our cabin crew reputation at risk.
Strikes do not save jobs, and this one serves no purpose whatsoever. We are all working the new crew complements, and we have suffered no real hardship.
Think very carefully. This is very serious. All our futures depend on it.
I am BA cabin crew and the above represents my own view and not that of BA.
Last edited by HiFlyer14; 25th Jan 2010 at 17:56.
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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith
According to a few other crew members overheard today discussing UNITE's propsal today they thought:
- It's more than what BA deserves.
- UNITE is far too generous.
- WW can **** off.
- We're running out of patience.
- The postman can wait at the door because I will be sending back my ballot paper with a big fat YES.
- It's more than what BA deserves.
- UNITE is far too generous.
- WW can **** off.
- We're running out of patience.
- The postman can wait at the door because I will be sending back my ballot paper with a big fat YES.
I'll play hard-ball for a moment ... If these people really think that pi55ing off their employer, and all their customers, is really going to solve their 'perceived' problems then they really need to go and work in a different Industry.
The lights are on at Waterside, and as someone [BASA or Unite?] noted earlier the wicked BA are employing professionals to prevent this disaster for the Company.
The end product can only be [sadly] a LOT of people losing their jobs [for no good reason]. There will certainly be a period of turbulence, but when the dust settles some BA CC will be employed, and some won't.
It's the WRONG battle to start a War. Simples.
If anyone thinks that Mr Walsh hasn't seen this coming, and prepared contingency plans, they are seriously failing to understand the problem. BA has to change to survive; the militant CC are a minor part of the overall equation, and will be discarded if necessary. All other parts of BA seem to have understood this.
Again, good luck to those supporting BA.
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An equitable divison of responsibilities?
Len McCluskey, Unite assistant general secretary, said: "With a cabin crew of 13,500 does BA seriously think this handful of inexperienced individuals will be able to operate a service? BA would be far better channeling its energies into negotiation than pursuing cynical schemes to break its own skilled and professional workforce."
Willie Walsh and his senior management team are more than capable of making their own decisions on how to run British Airways without Mister McLuskey's unsolicited advice. After all, Willie Walsh does not tell Mister McLuskie how he should run his union.
Come to that, no one could tell Mr McLuskie, Miz Malone, or any other BASSA functionary anything: not the sadly misled members of BASSA, nor the TUC or even the ghost of Karl Marx. They have their fingers stuck firmly in their ears and are singing "La la la".
(Is that how Miz Malone acquired her nickname, btw?)
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Good points HiFlyer14!
If you are voting yes - you strike. Simple as that. Don't go around hoping you will be away on a trip when the strike occurs - or that you will have a late report that day - because it's nothing but cowardly to hope for this.
Stand up to your belief.
Following will sound very harsh but it has to be said.
I honestly hope some of the most militant BASSA members - from CF some of these would be Fletcher, Dragon, Marple, Babe, Rob, Wilhelmina - will get the earliest report possible on the first day of the strike - let's see if they have the courage not to turn up for duty - and not let some mislead poor crew make that decision.
Trust me - it's not an easy choice to make - that's exactly what happened to me in 1997.
If you are voting yes - you strike. Simple as that. Don't go around hoping you will be away on a trip when the strike occurs - or that you will have a late report that day - because it's nothing but cowardly to hope for this.
Stand up to your belief.
Following will sound very harsh but it has to be said.
I honestly hope some of the most militant BASSA members - from CF some of these would be Fletcher, Dragon, Marple, Babe, Rob, Wilhelmina - will get the earliest report possible on the first day of the strike - let's see if they have the courage not to turn up for duty - and not let some mislead poor crew make that decision.
Trust me - it's not an easy choice to make - that's exactly what happened to me in 1997.
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A possibility that strikers may have to face
One medium- to long-term consequence that striking BA cabin crew may well have to face is the humiliation of having to reapply for their own jobs.
A thoughtful and thought-provoking article on the subject appeared in "The Times" this morning. Here is a link: Reapply for our own jobs? We can take a hint, thanks | Sathnam Sanghera: Business life - Times Online
A thoughtful and thought-provoking article on the subject appeared in "The Times" this morning. Here is a link: Reapply for our own jobs? We can take a hint, thanks | Sathnam Sanghera: Business life - Times Online
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Musings from Fort Regent
In his recent posting RG stated, 'inter alia' that:
I do not think that anyone will disagree with the first sentence quoted above, but I must take exception to the rest.
British Airways' most important abstract asset is its employees. That is the reason for the company investing millions upon millions in training all grades and all disciplines in its workforce.
Having made that investment (in cabin crew in this case), why would BA suddenly decide to write off that money for no good commercial reason?
A reward for experience is easily defined: the best pay and allowance package in the world (arguably) for flight attendants.
If, on the other hand, BA's in-flight workforce thinks otherwise it could be advised to check the trade papers, jobs on t'internet and colleagues working for other airlines, anywhere in the world.
I'm under no illusions about who runs BA. The LT runs the company on behalf of the board for the benefit of shareholders.
They have decided that experience is of no commercial value and want to restructure so that experience is not rewarded.
I'm not in a position to judge whether their evaluation is correct, does loyalty have any commercial value today?
They have decided that experience is of no commercial value and want to restructure so that experience is not rewarded.
I'm not in a position to judge whether their evaluation is correct, does loyalty have any commercial value today?
British Airways' most important abstract asset is its employees. That is the reason for the company investing millions upon millions in training all grades and all disciplines in its workforce.
Having made that investment (in cabin crew in this case), why would BA suddenly decide to write off that money for no good commercial reason?
A reward for experience is easily defined: the best pay and allowance package in the world (arguably) for flight attendants.
If, on the other hand, BA's in-flight workforce thinks otherwise it could be advised to check the trade papers, jobs on t'internet and colleagues working for other airlines, anywhere in the world.
Last edited by La Pouquelaye; 25th Jan 2010 at 18:36.