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British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V

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British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V

Old 24th Jan 2010, 18:43
  #2881 (permalink)  
 
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Two-Tone-Blue

There are almost 40 representatives plus our Chairman and Secretary.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 18:45
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@ MissM ...
There are almost 40 representatives plus our Chairman and Secretary.
Thanks for that.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 19:04
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Tony_SLFWin Win for crew & BA. How about a little thought for the passenger
Any chance of a win for us as well ???


Tony-SLF
You must have missed my post #2030. Here it is,The PCC is does have the heart of the customer in mind and it's not the first time I have said it here on PPruNe.

We're grown ups, sensible and professional and we will listen,talk and negotiate resulting in a win win situation for BA, our customers and ourselves.
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above represent my personal views and not those of BA.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 19:09
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77.....The cabin crew who were based at MAN/GLA/BFST were ALL mainline NSP crew and they were part of the seniority list they kept their seniority and rank when coming to LHR .Also many of them had been CSD's and PSR's on longhaul before going to the bases.You must be thinking of the BAR base at MAN .The shuttle cabin crew were all mainline and in the NSP.I have seen many of them in CRC and they are still CSD's and PSR's.

I would like to add that the MAN/GLA girls were so switched on you never had to concern yourself about anything .Very reliable and efficient.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 19:17
  #2885 (permalink)  
 
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MissM:
Where did you hear about this? Dare I say that when BA presents a new fleet to be introduced at LHR there will be another ballot for a strike. BA only has themselves to blame.
You can dare if you so wish, MissM.

But that was a typical, died-in-the-wool, trades unionist reaction - and to a rumour, at that: strike first, talk after.

No wonder so many premium customers are leaving in their droves for more reliable air carriers, laughing at such kneejerk stupidity on the part of BA's frontline ambassadors.



[I am an ex-BA J-class passenger. The views I express are my own and without doubt those of many such others.]

Last edited by La Pouquelaye; 24th Jan 2010 at 21:18.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 19:43
  #2886 (permalink)  
 
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im1234 and cloudn9ne

Lots of us have been suggesting different ideas and concerns over the past year, the company has also actively asked for them on several occaissions and then responded.
As a result the company has made changes to it's original proposal.


cloudn9ne,
I am a CSD,
I do worry about ALL our futures (as I am sure the CSD you flew with yesterday does).

I don't believe our company is out to shaft anyone, quite the opposite in fact.

Thank goodness for this forum, many colleagues listen to both sides, debate, talk objectively about our current situation and are prepared to challenge incorrect information.

We need to keep that up, otherwise it's like trying to play a game of football with someone who won't pass the ball. (My view)

There is hope out there, I promise.

My thoughts, not representative of my employer or anyone else.

Last edited by Clarified; 24th Jan 2010 at 20:24.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 19:50
  #2887 (permalink)  
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Weather Map

See the reply from Lurker. It did happen. Why I don't know but some very senior shuttle (mainline) CSDs were not allowed to work as a CSD on Longhaul ex LHR.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 20:02
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MissM
my guess is that you are either a rep, or a serious Bassa militant.
So many of your comments are incendiary and belligerent.
You are bright enough to respond to a discussion point but are unable to shake off your prevailing attitude which is either that of someone unfairly persecuted, or that of a committed socialist.

Clearly you are fighting for a cause.
And you take most comments personally.
Your statements are not intended for the open minded contributors or thread watchers; but are aimed at any crew members viewing this discussion and to scare or coerce them into voting yes and striking.

Of the 40 or so Bassa reps, how many will actually be on strike?
Not the chair, or the secretarry, that's for sure.

I am not pro management as such , but I do believe BA is in deep trouble, and has to restructure for a different passenger profile in the future.
I do think it is fair that crew reduce their costs significantly.
I do not believe that the current "imposed" changes impact you - or the operation - to any serious degree.

As for the fear of future change from the introduction of a new fleet, it doesn't matter what BA say or promise.............. you won't believe them!
So there is nothing BA can do to manage you. You are out of control!

If I was Willie I would be looking for a way to dispense with any disloyal staff who undermine the management's ability to perform their task.

I am sure your jobs would be safe on the proposed t & c's.
If there is to be a new fleet then it could be operated seperately.
Over the course of - say - 20 years, then , inevitably the pay and agreements will very gradually be eroded (because they are so superior to our competitors), and crew know this , hence the paranoia.

But I see no reason for any sudden compulsory redeployment to a cheaper fleet.

I would not support the company in any way if they took that route!

However, I DO support the company's strategy to impose the changes now.
Because they are not unreasonable. They barely impact your salary, or your working conditions.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 20:03
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Wake up and smell the coffee!

This should be shouted instead towards BASSA and their old ancient brigade of narrow-minded with no grip on reality representatives who have controlled, poisoned and destroyed this airline far too long. No doubt they are furious, and at the same time scared, of Willie Walsh who has the courage to challenge their dictatorship.

BASSA are using all the strength they have left to challenge Willie Walsh back but they already know their time has come. They are running out of ideas. They are lost in a frightening world with no compass or map. This is more than obvious when reading their newsletters which are full of rubbish sentences with no logic or meaning whatsoever.

My wife has been with BA since 1993 and as much as I hate to admit following, she's a very pro and militant member of BASSA who has voted yes in all of their previous ballots. She also participated in their last strike in 1997. I still cannot understand why she so perversely insists on remaining to being a member seeing as she has been, as others too have reported that they also have been, accused of voting no because she's married to a pilot. That pilot would be me.

There are many professional and hard working cabin crew at BA. They are indeed poorly managed by BA but also poorly represented by BASSA. No wonder why so many of them are confused and not sure whom to believe. On top of this every time they get to work there are always militant BASSA members who are spouting false BASSA propaganda straight onto their faces.

BASSA are headed for a deep fall. Unfortunately many mislead and innocent members will go with them but I'm trying every day to convince my wife to step back and take a distance from them. She's a d*mn good purser and I will not allow BASSA to destroy her career.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 20:11
  #2890 (permalink)  
 
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Ahhh ... conspiracy upon conspiracy.

The only REALITY is that this storm in a teacup will crash BA.

Keep doing the conspiracy theories as you head for the Benefits Office.

I cannot believe I'm hearing these conversations in the 21st Century.

BTW ... I have heard from several passengers who pay to keep the airline afloat [just] that they're not flying BA any more.
Can you grasp that simple concept?
WE, the people who pay your wages, can't be bothered any more about your tantrums.
WE don't care about 'Doors 5' or how many days you get on the beach after a day's work.

If YOU aren't going to fly us, WE will fly with someone else.
It is really is as simple as that, so stop playing games with your [and other people's] lives..
YOU, and tens of thousands of people WILL be unemployed. And BA will cease to exist, or re-form without you.


[I was a frequent J-class pax with BA until this nonsense started]
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 20:28
  #2891 (permalink)  
 
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77...I am not sure why that would have happend there is nothing that could stop any mainline CSD's from the shuttle bases from working as CSD's at LHR.

The MAN cabin crew were all mainline until 1993 they then became part of BAR (British Airways Regional) at that time all the MAN crew were taken out of the NSP seniority list for about two years.I know this IS fact as my ex gf was based at MAN for many years firstly with British Airtours then mainline.

There was problem with BAR cabin crew operating the shuttle due to budgets so BA mainline decided to set up a shuttle base at MAN in 1998. Most of the senior crew from BAR went over although there were only limited places available.BAR continued but they merged with Brymon and other airlines and the crew were not part of the NSP until 1998 so i think it must have had something to do with their right of transfer .

I can tell you now that no MAN shuttle CSD's have gone to LHR and worked down as PSR's.I know all of them,and they have full right of transfer due their NSP status.As did the BFST/GLA crew.They kept ALL their seniority and rank and quite rightly so.

As for Lurkers post i think that is why a lot of MAN crew came to LHR 92/93 as they didn't want to become part of BAR, as the terms and conditions changed big time ! .I'm sure A Lurker will confirm this along with others one of my favourites from MAN, DG, transferred to 767 fleet about that time.

Last edited by Weather Map; 24th Jan 2010 at 20:41.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 20:42
  #2892 (permalink)  
 
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Tony SLF. I would like to think 99.99% of BA staff are customer focused. Its what I beleive and have seen when I go to work. After all BA is a customer service business and is there becuase of its customers.

I think as this topic is over a very emotive subject epecially with all the BASSA spin and the handful of CC that come on here with their negative/positive rhetoric will have lost sight of that fact for the couple of minute they are writing the post. Please dont take that to mean the vast majority dont care for their customers and im sure when these people are actually at work they do the best they can.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 20:43
  #2893 (permalink)  
 
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Where did you hear about this? Dare I say that when BA presents a new fleet to be introduced at LHR there will be another ballot for a strike. BA only has themselves to blame.
I doubt it, MissM.

When Bassa call their ill judged strike (I have no doubt that there'll be enough of you with sufficient bravado to tick the 'yes' box) and it crumbles within 24 hours, part of the deal will be a 'no strike' clause about New Fleet.

Then you'll wish you settled for a decent deal when you had the chance.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 20:48
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Only been away a few days and the attacks on BASSA go on and on,for me a little tired of the bashing. A real concern is the fact that a few people have voluntered to work as cabin crew because they feel a need to get involved in a dispute which does not concern them. I can understand greed on the part played by people in our society but to have no self respect that remains the lowest of the low in my eyes. Anyway the ballot papers will arrive tomorrow onwards as you can guess a yes vote will be my play so please respect my wishes. Also before i go i would like to mention some people spend too much time on this site it does worry me.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 20:54
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Just ask our customers about "greed and self respect" .I think the 12 days of Xmas says it all.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 20:54
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Watersidewonker whats your take on the BASSA lies, some of which ive pointed out in my previous post.

Do you 100% trust a union if this is the case.

People are volunteering to protect a great company that could be ruined by a rash decision like a strike when there are many other option that BASSA doesn't seem to want to consider.

I for one believe you have been ill informed and are basing your decision on incorrect information and properganda. That may sound patronising but I have judged info from several sources where as you judge it from one source that we know mis-informs.

Its a shame, I used to be angry at the ''strikers'' my emotive conversation with my CSD almost made me feel sorry for his quandry and it is the union all my anger is now towards.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 20:58
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def not a rep

MISSN is definitely not a rep !
Let me tell you why i come to that conclusion.
She is somewhat typical of the majority of crew.. in that
1) She will be voting yes but hopes she will be on a part time day or day off and not have to have the courage of her convictions. Many crew who vote yes will be hoping the same though for many now the company have taken away the other soft option of going sick.
2) She doesn`t know the facts behind the dispute! One of the reasons for the dispute is the future plans to have a new fleet on different pay and conditions, BA have stated this new fleet will not be started until there is a recovery and growth in traffic.What this will mean for the current crew is that.yes , they will keep their current salaries and conditions but they will become a dying breed, The new cheaper crew will operate the routes that cost BA most in crew terms and where the current crew earn most in variable pay (Tokyo 4 day trip £900 in extra pay versus Virgin paying their crew £170 for example) and the current crew will operate the routes where they cost the least. This also means that in effect they will become a dying breed with no promotion or transfer prospects unless they move to the new fleet for promotion on the new pay scales,
This to me is the major area of dispute and thru discussions with some senior crew what they fear too. The best they hope for is not a separate fleet but a mixture of contracts on all routes. But this will NOT happen! There will be a new fleet sometime. If they/you go on strike , sooner than BA could have hoped for in their wildest dreams.
I would also suggest that BASSA/UNITE have timed this vote as quickly as they could before they loose in the courts over their challenge to BA on breaking contracts.
So MISSM i suggest you do some research as to why you are thinking of going on strike and if you dont have the courage to back up your vote with actions that could possibly lead to dismissal or having to re-apply for your job on new terms and conditions you have to vote NO as should your colleagues.
And for gods sake take some notice of what your customers ( The people who pay your wages!!) are saying on here!!!!!!!
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 20:58
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Another, yawn , great and insightful, yawn, post by WatersideWonker.

Keep trying.
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 21:00
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Does not concern me..

The fact is that people are so annoyed at the attitude and damn lies that BASSA are spouting out to crew. I actually cannot remember seeing anyone attack BASSA at all.

Im tired of hearing why you want to strike because of what may happen, please please for once can 1 member of crew come on here and actually state why you are strike. The facts and not the BASSA spin we keep hearing.

Staff are volunteering by the thousand, thats how much it does concern them. Thet they dont want a buch of lemmings to destroy a company that most of us are proud to say we work for.

The recent emails that have been sent by BASSA are off this planet. I live with a crew member.. She has been told all sorts, but when you actually ask.. Well why are you going on strike all I get is nothing !!!!

Or something about.. New Fleet.. if we let them do this they will do anything. Im tired of hearing it. Crew are well paid with good perks for an industry that is over capacity. Dont believe that we wont be allowed to collapse see JAL.. Wake up guys, passangers are really starting to get annoyed with the Militant attitude and we are so hard done by your Not !!!! Nearly everyone is against you, why ... Becuase you cannot reasonablt answer the one question honestly

WHY ARE YOU GOING ON STRIKE

Thats why it concerns me
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Old 24th Jan 2010, 21:11
  #2900 (permalink)  
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One of the reasons for the dispute is the future plans to have a new fleet on different pay and conditions.
Im tired of hearing why you want to strike because of what may happen...
Or something about.. New Fleet.. if we let them do this they will do anything.
It had better not be one of the reasons for the strike. It is illegal to strike about something which hasn't happened yet.
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