Boeing vs. Airbus- Question for Cabin Crew-Doors
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Boeing vs. Airbus- Question for Cabin Crew-Doors
Question to those of you who fly on both aircraft types. Which doors do you like better? Boeing or Airbus and why.
I am looking for feedback on everything and anything regarding doors(handles, windows, indicators etc)
Is there an easier door to operate?
Please have a look at www.aero-smart.co.uk
What do you think of this system? and do you think these kinds of warning systems should be a standard part of all aircraft doors?
Is inadvertent slide deployments a big enough issue at your company to warrant this warning system? or cabin pressurization while on the ground?
If you could design a door from the flight attendant perspective, what are some things you would keep or change?
How useful are the current windows in the doors for checking outside conditions?
Thanks a bunch!
I am looking for feedback on everything and anything regarding doors(handles, windows, indicators etc)
Is there an easier door to operate?
Please have a look at www.aero-smart.co.uk
What do you think of this system? and do you think these kinds of warning systems should be a standard part of all aircraft doors?
Is inadvertent slide deployments a big enough issue at your company to warrant this warning system? or cabin pressurization while on the ground?
If you could design a door from the flight attendant perspective, what are some things you would keep or change?
How useful are the current windows in the doors for checking outside conditions?
Thanks a bunch!
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On 747, I would prefer if the door mode selection box was designed differently. There's really no place for the safety pin to go except place it with the ribbon around it somewhere under the hatch. The safety pin can be difficult to find. Once it went missing for me, and another time for another crew member, and we had to stick our hands deep into that hole in the door.
I won't even go on about 767 and the door itself and the procedure to arm and disarm the slide. It's the same with 737. It feels very outdated having to bend down and move the girt bar.
If I could design a door, I would place the door selection handle either at the top of the door, as on 777, or at least at the middle of the door, as on A320. Bending down as you need to do on 747 is awful even though it only takes a few second to select the door mode.
I won't even go on about 767 and the door itself and the procedure to arm and disarm the slide. It's the same with 737. It feels very outdated having to bend down and move the girt bar.
If I could design a door, I would place the door selection handle either at the top of the door, as on 777, or at least at the middle of the door, as on A320. Bending down as you need to do on 747 is awful even though it only takes a few second to select the door mode.
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I am currently certified to operate on the 737, 777, A318, A319, A320 and A321. In the past, I've also flown the 757 and 767. And I can tell you that in this sort of situation, your worst enemy is not the aircraft make or type. It's the one thing that you welcome in an evacuation, but would happily kick around the airport when you've opened an armed door accidently. Lets hear it for good old power assist! That's where the 737 comes into its own. Whilst the 737 does not have the most dignified methods of arming or disarming the doors, the lack of power assist means that a door can, generally, be caught before it is opened enough to deploy the slide. And yes, I'm ashamed to admit, I speak from experience, following an incident occurring as we disarmed the doors. Luckily, the fact that I didn't have to fight to keep the door from opening, plus the resistance and very visible girt bar on the 737, saved us and our inbound passengers from an unscheduled nightstop.
On an aircraft fitted with power assist, by the time the brain reacts to the warnings, in whatever form they may be, it has kicked in and grabbed the door out of your hands. Think of it in terms of you shutting the car door, even as your brain is screaming that the keys are still inside...you swing the door and the momentum shuts it before you can react.
All the while humans are operating doors, accidents will happen. It doesn't help that many distractions are likely to be present at this time. Passengers standing up and dropping their duty free vodka on their neighbours head, pilots possibly braking heavily, crew from the back calling to confirm their doors are in manual, low crewing levels leaving one person alone down the front and of course, the biggest distraction of all, tiredness.
I'm all for minimalising the risk, but, no matter what you do, people will make mistakes. The only hope is that no one gets hurt when it happens. One thing I will say though...touch wood...you never do it twice!
Jsl
On an aircraft fitted with power assist, by the time the brain reacts to the warnings, in whatever form they may be, it has kicked in and grabbed the door out of your hands. Think of it in terms of you shutting the car door, even as your brain is screaming that the keys are still inside...you swing the door and the momentum shuts it before you can react.
All the while humans are operating doors, accidents will happen. It doesn't help that many distractions are likely to be present at this time. Passengers standing up and dropping their duty free vodka on their neighbours head, pilots possibly braking heavily, crew from the back calling to confirm their doors are in manual, low crewing levels leaving one person alone down the front and of course, the biggest distraction of all, tiredness.
I'm all for minimalising the risk, but, no matter what you do, people will make mistakes. The only hope is that no one gets hurt when it happens. One thing I will say though...touch wood...you never do it twice!
Jsl
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BA's 757s have an alarm that beeps if a door is opened in automatic.
I remember D1R going off mid flight once, it's quite shrill.
I've always trained and been trained that research (I don't have specifics to hand) has shown that doors with up and down door handles (such as Airbus and 767) have higher incidences of inadvertent slide deployments that rotatory handles.
I can relate to nuigini's feelings about the 767. Funny, I always found the hard heave-ho and bang of the 757 door kind of reassuring. Not exactly scienficially based but you know the door is shut, when you shut it - so do the pax around you. Funny enough, I have managed to dodge the 737 thoughout my whole career.
The worst door I have come across is on the E170. If anyone has flown it, along with another aircraft, you really have to stop and think about what you are doing. The door handle and the arming lever are in the same mechanism. You have to remember to split the handles before opening. I've often wondered what the statistics are for slide deployment on Embraers are? Give me the ATR anyday, you just crack and go.
I remember D1R going off mid flight once, it's quite shrill.
I've always trained and been trained that research (I don't have specifics to hand) has shown that doors with up and down door handles (such as Airbus and 767) have higher incidences of inadvertent slide deployments that rotatory handles.
I can relate to nuigini's feelings about the 767. Funny, I always found the hard heave-ho and bang of the 757 door kind of reassuring. Not exactly scienficially based but you know the door is shut, when you shut it - so do the pax around you. Funny enough, I have managed to dodge the 737 thoughout my whole career.
The worst door I have come across is on the E170. If anyone has flown it, along with another aircraft, you really have to stop and think about what you are doing. The door handle and the arming lever are in the same mechanism. You have to remember to split the handles before opening. I've often wondered what the statistics are for slide deployment on Embraers are? Give me the ATR anyday, you just crack and go.
The EMB 170/190 doors are a shocker. Virgin Blue is having a shocking run popping slides. Not just the cabin crew, but the engineers too!
Have worked on Fokker, Boeing, Airbus and Embraer.
Embraer: Has to be the worst designed door in history. An 'Arming Lever' and an 'Operating Handle' was not enough - no - they had to go throw in a third lever that although it looks and feels like its part of the door arming lever, splits in half to operate totally independently. All handles move in the same directions, and the arming/vent flap levers are hidden under the operating handle. The doors are tiny, but they still come with 'Door Assist'.
Airbus: Quite liked it. If you can switch on an oven, you can arm your door.
Boeing: 767 always reminded me of one of those finger traps you buy at the markets. Generally any design that requires you to stick both hands in a small space will involve some pain. The 737 - as much as I love the simplicity and the solid clunk when the door closes, bending down is so 1960s.
Fokker: Plastic arming handles felt flimsy, and if you ran a messy galley you'd have to look out for milk jiggers and teabags getting stuck in the girt bar tracks. No viewing window at R1 (some models did, ours didint), meant you had to run around the galley and into row one to check outside conditions... Pretty hard to pop the slide on the F100. It's a cross between boeing and airbus (rotating door handle, and chest height arming lever which was bright yellow and about 4x the size of the one on the A330)
Have worked on Fokker, Boeing, Airbus and Embraer.
Embraer: Has to be the worst designed door in history. An 'Arming Lever' and an 'Operating Handle' was not enough - no - they had to go throw in a third lever that although it looks and feels like its part of the door arming lever, splits in half to operate totally independently. All handles move in the same directions, and the arming/vent flap levers are hidden under the operating handle. The doors are tiny, but they still come with 'Door Assist'.
Airbus: Quite liked it. If you can switch on an oven, you can arm your door.
Boeing: 767 always reminded me of one of those finger traps you buy at the markets. Generally any design that requires you to stick both hands in a small space will involve some pain. The 737 - as much as I love the simplicity and the solid clunk when the door closes, bending down is so 1960s.
Fokker: Plastic arming handles felt flimsy, and if you ran a messy galley you'd have to look out for milk jiggers and teabags getting stuck in the girt bar tracks. No viewing window at R1 (some models did, ours didint), meant you had to run around the galley and into row one to check outside conditions... Pretty hard to pop the slide on the F100. It's a cross between boeing and airbus (rotating door handle, and chest height arming lever which was bright yellow and about 4x the size of the one on the A330)
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The EMB door sounds complicated.
I checked this picture and I don't really understand what you mean by splitting the handles before opening and to operate independently.
http://www.camtechindustries.ca/imag...0L1%20MAIN.jpg
Is the arming lever under the top with the little display at the left corner?
I checked this picture and I don't really understand what you mean by splitting the handles before opening and to operate independently.
http://www.camtechindustries.ca/imag...0L1%20MAIN.jpg
Is the arming lever under the top with the little display at the left corner?
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Glad to see I'm not the only one who doesn't like the Embraer.
nuigini, sorry I haven't explained it well. I haven't flown it in a while, and I've blocked it out so I don't get confused. Basically to open the door, you lift both handles, then push the inner handle down to close some sort of protective flap. There's no real assist handle on the door and it's just an awkward motion that is prone to injury, not to mention broken nails.
I've always like the mid cabin doors on the A321 that wait until the slide has deployed before opening.
Some airlines here in Oz don't even let their crew open or close doors unless in emergency. Ground staff do it for them. I'm not sure if I agree with that or not. It eliminates the slide deployment risk but it doesn't give crew a chance to get used to the feel and motion of the door but then every day use is not going to feel the same as emergency use anyway, so maybe it is a good idea.
My first airline trained that your P45 was attached to the slide that you blew. Got the message across, I only remember a No2 doing it on the 767 and she was demoted. In this airline, that was probably worse than the P45 but it taught us all to be extra vigilant.
nuigini, sorry I haven't explained it well. I haven't flown it in a while, and I've blocked it out so I don't get confused. Basically to open the door, you lift both handles, then push the inner handle down to close some sort of protective flap. There's no real assist handle on the door and it's just an awkward motion that is prone to injury, not to mention broken nails.
I've always like the mid cabin doors on the A321 that wait until the slide has deployed before opening.
Some airlines here in Oz don't even let their crew open or close doors unless in emergency. Ground staff do it for them. I'm not sure if I agree with that or not. It eliminates the slide deployment risk but it doesn't give crew a chance to get used to the feel and motion of the door but then every day use is not going to feel the same as emergency use anyway, so maybe it is a good idea.
My first airline trained that your P45 was attached to the slide that you blew. Got the message across, I only remember a No2 doing it on the 767 and she was demoted. In this airline, that was probably worse than the P45 but it taught us all to be extra vigilant.
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I loved a320 doors....always found them simple to use!
A330/300 doors more or less the same thing with a slightly different arming mechanism...again no big issue with them and very easy to manouver.
747 doors....too bloody big and i just dont get the reason for such a mad silver handle...what are they trying to encourage??? Its like..."hey big silver handle you know you shouldnt touch but give it a go anyways"...Fr Dougal and the big red button comes to mind!
777 Doors....love the arming mechanism, very simple but again that big bloody handle. But at least it doesnt pivot and swing at you slicing your kneecaps off like the 747 door!!! And I love the integrated gust lock on it! lol
767 Doors....Well, if the person at Boeing who designed these Guillotines with stupid levers and piss rubbish windows which would be no good in searching for outside hazards (despite the stupidly large perspex window on the inside) happens to be reading this forum...could you please email me your address so I can come around and beat you over the head with a piece of paneling that fell off the bleedin door of G-BNWC the other day after I arrived in LHR!!!!
A330/300 doors more or less the same thing with a slightly different arming mechanism...again no big issue with them and very easy to manouver.
747 doors....too bloody big and i just dont get the reason for such a mad silver handle...what are they trying to encourage??? Its like..."hey big silver handle you know you shouldnt touch but give it a go anyways"...Fr Dougal and the big red button comes to mind!
777 Doors....love the arming mechanism, very simple but again that big bloody handle. But at least it doesnt pivot and swing at you slicing your kneecaps off like the 747 door!!! And I love the integrated gust lock on it! lol
767 Doors....Well, if the person at Boeing who designed these Guillotines with stupid levers and piss rubbish windows which would be no good in searching for outside hazards (despite the stupidly large perspex window on the inside) happens to be reading this forum...could you please email me your address so I can come around and beat you over the head with a piece of paneling that fell off the bleedin door of G-BNWC the other day after I arrived in LHR!!!!
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Another thing about the 767 is that if opened in automatic, they cannot be closed again, which could be dangerous. Say if some passenger, in an evacuation, opened the door in a panic and there was smoke or fire outside, once opened, you wouldn't be able to close it again due to the counter balance used to open it.
I think the same applies to the L1011 and DC10/MD11 but don't quote me on it.
I think the same applies to the L1011 and DC10/MD11 but don't quote me on it.
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767 counter-balance...
VS, I was under the impression it could be closed again, albeit very difficult to do without 2 or 3 other people helping you... but agree, the 767 door is not that great with regard to the arm/disarm lever. I always did like the drop-out doors, no worry about opening that one by mistake, if you're using it, you're good to blow the slide 
Just looking at that Emraer handle has me confused... I've heard the same thing from a number of Virgin Blue crew, they say it's the pits especially when you change from a Boeing mid-trip... and tired... no wonder they keep blowing slides, can't blame them really!
Just looking at that Emraer handle has me confused... I've heard the same thing from a number of Virgin Blue crew, they say it's the pits especially when you change from a Boeing mid-trip... and tired... no wonder they keep blowing slides, can't blame them really!
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BB, perhaps that was just my airline, then. In fact, on reflection, it was only that airline, Air2000. They trained us trained that it couldn't closed again. At the other airline, BA, I don't remember anyone telling me that it couldn't be closed.
I guess if you were desperate enough, you could, as you say, enlist help to close it. It would be judgement call at the time.
And, yeah, Embraer doors are so dodgy. I feel for DJ crew. I didn't realise they did mixed flying on the same day. I thought it was bad enough at BA swapping from 757s to 767s on the same day.
I guess if you were desperate enough, you could, as you say, enlist help to close it. It would be judgement call at the time.
And, yeah, Embraer doors are so dodgy. I feel for DJ crew. I didn't realise they did mixed flying on the same day. I thought it was bad enough at BA swapping from 757s to 767s on the same day.
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From a ground ops perspective the doors on Airbus are by far the best to operate. They are easier to open and due to the way the mechanism moves them to the right whilst keeping them tight to the aircraft body they are safer as they don't hang over the loading bridge, which can cause problems when the aircraft is being filled with fuel and can move down an inch or two on it's suspension (an expensive business if your not keeping your eye on it).
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Airbus/Boeing Doors
Hi, I used to work on 737,757,767 now work on a320,321. As in response to doors..
The 737- Argh These are the worst doors possible. They are good that you can actually see the girt bar armed. But the orange strap we used to put over the window to warn people in and out that it was armed, was not really a good idea as it covers the window which your supposed to look out of!!
It has no power assist but really isnt needed on this maybe only on front left as this 1 is bigger and heavier. i used to find the front right service door the most awkward but they are out-dated its not very nice having to bend down on your knees. But they are even on the NG Boeings lol.. dunno who thought of them doors being next generation. Also did any one else have problems with the so called wide angle viewer (window) which is not wide angled lol, steaming up??
The 757 door was my favourite, the cheese slice (emergency only placard) but it is very heavy to operate in manual mode. i used to struggle big time..
The 767 door is a joke, its a nightmare. and you still had to get down to check the yellow lock down indicators on the floor, and i was also told that once you opened it in armed mode you cant close it again. i was told that if 3/4 men were pulling on it, it wont close as it was counterbalanced for the weight with the slide, and apparently it was heavy?? i was thomsonfly trained on these..
Now A320/21 They are good design easy to operate. But the re-assuring thud i used to get from boeings just gives you that little bit extra confidence that it is shut. Plus are dangerous if the aircraft is pressurized when you land. As they will blow out!! I used to like boeing knowing that they cant be opened when the aircraft is pressurized..
They are easy to arm. dont see the point of the white armed light becasue once you pull the handle it cant be closed and will fly open. unless on 321 doors 2 and 3, but i didnt like having to wait for the slide because the slide inflates but door still will creep open slower than the slide i found..
These embraer doors sound mad. i cant understand all these levers and why they all move in different directions but ive only been on a 195 with flybe once and went no where near the doors.. lol.
So you need a lightweight door easy to operate in manual and automatic mode with a huge window and an easy arming mode. And if you go near it when armed will have a sign hit you telling it its armed lol.. Is that asking too much????
The 737- Argh These are the worst doors possible. They are good that you can actually see the girt bar armed. But the orange strap we used to put over the window to warn people in and out that it was armed, was not really a good idea as it covers the window which your supposed to look out of!!
It has no power assist but really isnt needed on this maybe only on front left as this 1 is bigger and heavier. i used to find the front right service door the most awkward but they are out-dated its not very nice having to bend down on your knees. But they are even on the NG Boeings lol.. dunno who thought of them doors being next generation. Also did any one else have problems with the so called wide angle viewer (window) which is not wide angled lol, steaming up??
The 757 door was my favourite, the cheese slice (emergency only placard) but it is very heavy to operate in manual mode. i used to struggle big time..
The 767 door is a joke, its a nightmare. and you still had to get down to check the yellow lock down indicators on the floor, and i was also told that once you opened it in armed mode you cant close it again. i was told that if 3/4 men were pulling on it, it wont close as it was counterbalanced for the weight with the slide, and apparently it was heavy?? i was thomsonfly trained on these..
Now A320/21 They are good design easy to operate. But the re-assuring thud i used to get from boeings just gives you that little bit extra confidence that it is shut. Plus are dangerous if the aircraft is pressurized when you land. As they will blow out!! I used to like boeing knowing that they cant be opened when the aircraft is pressurized..
They are easy to arm. dont see the point of the white armed light becasue once you pull the handle it cant be closed and will fly open. unless on 321 doors 2 and 3, but i didnt like having to wait for the slide because the slide inflates but door still will creep open slower than the slide i found..
These embraer doors sound mad. i cant understand all these levers and why they all move in different directions but ive only been on a 195 with flybe once and went no where near the doors.. lol.
So you need a lightweight door easy to operate in manual and automatic mode with a huge window and an easy arming mode. And if you go near it when armed will have a sign hit you telling it its armed lol.. Is that asking too much????
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Great System
At Qantas we never open doors from the inside a safety net
that stops a inadvertent slide firing. All doors are opened from the outside by ground personnel. This system is fantastic, another safety net to stop you from touching the handle unless its an emergency. 
A380 doors all open/close with the push of a button!
that stops a inadvertent slide firing. All doors are opened from the outside by ground personnel. This system is fantastic, another safety net to stop you from touching the handle unless its an emergency. A380 doors all open/close with the push of a button!
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At Qantas we never open doors from the inside a safety net
You are correct in that no door with power assist capability is operated by cabin crew in normal mode.
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Just remember on the 737 when closing the R1 door to jam your foot into the galley recess to prevent yourself flying out the door when de-icing fluid is all over the place. Nearly left the ac arse 1st one day due to a slippery floor, quite a scary experience when the catering truck has left and theres nothing to stop you meeting the tarmac.
L1 sometimes difficult and heavy, L2 and R2 quite easy to operate, plus on the 73 quite easy to see if your about to blow a slide. Known a few crew suddenly realise door is heavier then normal.....
L1 sometimes difficult and heavy, L2 and R2 quite easy to operate, plus on the 73 quite easy to see if your about to blow a slide. Known a few crew suddenly realise door is heavier then normal.....
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What ever happened with that purser who died during a emergency evsc from a A300 in 2000 in Miami? News reports said that he was "blown" out the ac nd the NTSB said something in their preliminary about the cabin not being fully depressurized. The way I see it, he didn't let go of the door in time. The power assist kicked in as the door was armed, and he got thrown out of the sc by the door momentum. Cabin pressure had nothing to do with it. He just died from landing on the tarmac head first at high speed. What's your take on this? Also why do the airbus doors have a red cabin pressure light but boeing doesn't? I know it has something to do with the vent doors or something. And what happens if you try to open the door with the light flashing? Also what do you mean a boeing plug door will blow on landing?