Are you a stewardess or a flight attendant? Young or aged? Discuss the article below
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Procedures differ per airline.
With us, after masks come down:
**************************
As for the article above.
Saw it last week just before I left for Tokyo. Thought it a piece of sexist cr@p, but reckoned it would provoke various interesting reactions.
Harking back to the days when men were men and women were grateful will always play well with a certain type of people.
And who can honestly say that they prefer a fat old grumpy FA to a young slim smiley stewardess?
Of course in real life, that is not the choice we face. There´s fat young grumpy CC, and there´s slim smiley old biddies.
What the person writing the article doesn´t mention is the price paid by the women of that era, (or even right now in some areas of the world) for the men of that era having airborne eye-candy waiting on them.
Women valued for their looks only, women not allowed to marry or get children unless the wanna lose the job, women treated like second class citizens with no pension rights and no respect for the job they do.
Be attractive, allow yourself to be treated like a sex-object, and serve the men with a smile always.
A steep price, and I am grateful I live now and in the West, thereby largely avoiding having to pay that price.
To my mind, a stewardess (that´s what we call ourselves where I work) should be strong as an ox, friendly, caring, good at SEPs and crowd control, be slim enough to squeeze past a cart in the aisle
and look well turned out.
Looking as nice as you can goes with the job. As does serving food & drinks, cleaning up vomit, knowing how to deal & converse with bikers & royalty and everything in between, speaking a few languages, being willing and able to look after the sick and the scared, being able to diffuse potential aggression incidents and knowing how to slap handcuffs on a berserk passenger without breaking a fingernail.
I also feel that I personally, soon to become 52, have passed my optimum sell-by date as an FA. I can still do the job, and in many ways do it better now than I did at at 30 and 40. Yet the specter of using my trolley as a Zimmer frame haunts me, and the thought of having to fly until or currently mandated pension age of 60 actually scares me.
But it´s what I do, it pays me a good wage and I´d be daft to give it up from a financial point of view.
I don´t feel that somebody like me, who could easily be a granny, fits the mold for this job. But maybe that feeling just stems from a lifetime of hearing and reading comments like the ones in this article? And from fearing that it´s what pax think when they see me?
Hmm, definitely needs more thinking this.
Interesting discussion, thanks for starting it amostcivilpilot
With us, after masks come down:
- Demonstratively don nearest mask & sit down
- Expect sudden descent to ´breathable´level
- On command from cockpit ´CC & pax take masks off´ grab nearest O2 bottle/use residual O2 from system and revive pax as needed.
- On command ´CC & pax keep masks on´ sling self to nearest O2 bottle by breathing from extra masks hanging down at outer seat rows. Don bottle-mask, move through cabin and put masks on pax who haven´t done so.
**************************
As for the article above.
Saw it last week just before I left for Tokyo. Thought it a piece of sexist cr@p, but reckoned it would provoke various interesting reactions.
Harking back to the days when men were men and women were grateful will always play well with a certain type of people.
And who can honestly say that they prefer a fat old grumpy FA to a young slim smiley stewardess?
Of course in real life, that is not the choice we face. There´s fat young grumpy CC, and there´s slim smiley old biddies.
What the person writing the article doesn´t mention is the price paid by the women of that era, (or even right now in some areas of the world) for the men of that era having airborne eye-candy waiting on them.
Women valued for their looks only, women not allowed to marry or get children unless the wanna lose the job, women treated like second class citizens with no pension rights and no respect for the job they do.
Be attractive, allow yourself to be treated like a sex-object, and serve the men with a smile always.
A steep price, and I am grateful I live now and in the West, thereby largely avoiding having to pay that price.
To my mind, a stewardess (that´s what we call ourselves where I work) should be strong as an ox, friendly, caring, good at SEPs and crowd control, be slim enough to squeeze past a cart in the aisle
and look well turned out.Looking as nice as you can goes with the job. As does serving food & drinks, cleaning up vomit, knowing how to deal & converse with bikers & royalty and everything in between, speaking a few languages, being willing and able to look after the sick and the scared, being able to diffuse potential aggression incidents and knowing how to slap handcuffs on a berserk passenger without breaking a fingernail.
I also feel that I personally, soon to become 52, have passed my optimum sell-by date as an FA. I can still do the job, and in many ways do it better now than I did at at 30 and 40. Yet the specter of using my trolley as a Zimmer frame haunts me, and the thought of having to fly until or currently mandated pension age of 60 actually scares me.
But it´s what I do, it pays me a good wage and I´d be daft to give it up from a financial point of view.
I don´t feel that somebody like me, who could easily be a granny, fits the mold for this job. But maybe that feeling just stems from a lifetime of hearing and reading comments like the ones in this article? And from fearing that it´s what pax think when they see me?
Hmm, definitely needs more thinking this.
Interesting discussion, thanks for starting it amostcivilpilot
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Ahem G-ZUZZ
Need to know was talking about FR CC. They do not sit down and do nothing at any stage of their working day unless of course they are caught napping by Dispatches on Channel 4 TV due to their punishing roster pattens 
! The SPH has to be achieved for them to avoid the "tea no biscuits" meeting with a manager so they would be up and about all flight doing sale sale sale!!!
If they sat down during a decompression it would be because they cannot breathe in order to be able to continue selling the sandwiches/duty free etc and surprise surprise because they are trained to do this by their SEP dept. It may also be because when the Captain releases them they might even still be alive to help the SLF/fellow crew to recover....you never know.
However in our company (procedures vary) if a decompression occurs we are trained to shout directions to pax re their O2 masks once we are on the drop down supply wherever we are in the cabin. Apparently this didn't happen on the FR flight according to need to know basis so I'm not surprised he question's why.
We do indeed go through the cabin on our own portable supply which again NTKB has emphasised but only when the Captain has reached an altitude and point in the descent when it is safe for us to do this. At this point we would probably not need the O2 anyway but are on it as a precaution until instructed we no longer need it. To get to the cylinder once released we would use the spare pax drop down O2 along the way......hopefully not getting all light headed and passing out
. Wouldn't be a lot of use to our pax then would we?
Anyway back to what I am really on board for (according to the original article anyway) I must go off and buy some more make up......Superdrug of course as I am a lowcostdolly after all......
! The SPH has to be achieved for them to avoid the "tea no biscuits" meeting with a manager so they would be up and about all flight doing sale sale sale!!!If they sat down during a decompression it would be because they cannot breathe in order to be able to continue selling the sandwiches/duty free etc and surprise surprise because they are trained to do this by their SEP dept. It may also be because when the Captain releases them they might even still be alive to help the SLF/fellow crew to recover....you never know.
However in our company (procedures vary) if a decompression occurs we are trained to shout directions to pax re their O2 masks once we are on the drop down supply wherever we are in the cabin. Apparently this didn't happen on the FR flight according to need to know basis so I'm not surprised he question's why.
We do indeed go through the cabin on our own portable supply which again NTKB has emphasised but only when the Captain has reached an altitude and point in the descent when it is safe for us to do this. At this point we would probably not need the O2 anyway but are on it as a precaution until instructed we no longer need it. To get to the cylinder once released we would use the spare pax drop down O2 along the way......hopefully not getting all light headed and passing out
. Wouldn't be a lot of use to our pax then would we?Anyway back to what I am really on board for (according to the original article anyway) I must go off and buy some more make up......Superdrug of course as I am a lowcostdolly after all......
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You remember bad experience better. Those articles usually highlight BAD things. Yes, there are burnt out flight attendants! It's not surprising to burn out after doing this job for 30 years, maybe you went through a divorse or you have to put up with other crap. What crap? For example: cutting your salary, your pension and other benefits.
New flight attendants might be disappointed about the job: pay is low and at some companies you have to do only turn-arounds for years.
Good salaries and long lay-overs are gone! Some people just don't know what this job is about. Getting up at 1 a.m is not easy for everyone. No wonder they don't smile if they are pissed off...
Yes, women used to get married before 30. Well, nowadays, women are very emancipated and there are a lot of singles over 30. More and more women get pregnant over 40!!! Times are also long gone when a man alone took care of his family. A lot of people simply cannot do that and women need to or want to go back to work.
The writer didn't even mention another "problem": the language barrier. There are some multinational companies where communication among crew and with passengers might be a problem for some flight attendants! It doesn't mean that the stewardess is stupid: she just doesn't speak proper English. I'm sure you wonder sometimes how she/he got hired...
Whatever this article is about, those times are gone. Especially with all this cost-cutting and the worsening conditions. Everything is about the profit! I'm sure my smile would be brighter if I had 72-hour-rest after a 14-hour flight, not only 24 hours...
New flight attendants might be disappointed about the job: pay is low and at some companies you have to do only turn-arounds for years.
Good salaries and long lay-overs are gone! Some people just don't know what this job is about. Getting up at 1 a.m is not easy for everyone. No wonder they don't smile if they are pissed off...
Yes, women used to get married before 30. Well, nowadays, women are very emancipated and there are a lot of singles over 30. More and more women get pregnant over 40!!! Times are also long gone when a man alone took care of his family. A lot of people simply cannot do that and women need to or want to go back to work.
The writer didn't even mention another "problem": the language barrier. There are some multinational companies where communication among crew and with passengers might be a problem for some flight attendants! It doesn't mean that the stewardess is stupid: she just doesn't speak proper English. I'm sure you wonder sometimes how she/he got hired...
Whatever this article is about, those times are gone. Especially with all this cost-cutting and the worsening conditions. Everything is about the profit! I'm sure my smile would be brighter if I had 72-hour-rest after a 14-hour flight, not only 24 hours...
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3. Safety - its gotten to be a joke. As far as I am concerned - the most important item is your location in the aircraft i.e. how many rows am I from the emergency exit ? I count both ways everytime. The rest is tut.
Maybe he would like to tell me what he would do if all of a sudden he had a fire/smoke while at 25,000ft on his 6am AMS flight....
Thanks TightSlot (nice to see you're still here) for replying to the decompression bit for me, you saved me time and safeguarded my liver too
I hope this gentleman will never really "need" to use the skills of any stewardess/flight attendant/cabin crew/trolley dolley/dinner lady whatever you want to call us these days.
happy flying x
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Maybe he would like to tell me what he would do if all of a sudden he had a fire/smoke while at 25,000ft on his 6am AMS flight....
Tighten seat belt, sit and wait for the subsequent evacuation, I suppose. Very little in fact. It certainly wouldn't be to use oxygen. What did you have in mind that he should do?
I'd be doing same as him: count the rows to the nearest exit and wait to use it.
the price paid by the women of that era.......for the men of that era having airborne eye-candy waiting on them.
Women valued for their looks only, women not allowed to marry or get children unless the wanna lose the job, women treated like second class citizens with no pension rights and no respect for the job they do.
Women valued for their looks only, women not allowed to marry or get children unless the wanna lose the job, women treated like second class citizens with no pension rights and no respect for the job they do.
As a matter of fact, the first air stewards were exclusively men. This went on (according to sources) for nearly 20 years. The first stewardesses (From 1930 onward) were all qualified nurses and were treated as such. This practice held until the demands of WWII forced change.
So you see, women didn't achieve their opportunity to be treated as nothing more than "eye-candy" for quite some time after the advent of public air travel. Maybe 40-50 years.
By the way, did you know that hosties have a patron saint? His name is St Bona of Pisa, a 12th-century pilgrim who was canonised by Pope John XXIII.
The downside of the job:
British Airtours Flight 28M, the two forward flight attendants, Arthur Bradbury and Joanna Toff, repeatedly crawled into the smoked filled and burning cabin to drag a number of passengers to safety, and were subsequently awarded the Queen's Gallantry Medal. The two rear flight attendants, Sharon Ford and Jacqui Ubanski, who opened the rear doors but were overwhelmed by fire and smoke were awarded the same medal postumously.
I hope this gentleman will never really "need" to use the skills of any stewardess/flight attendant/cabin crew/trolley dolley/dinner lady whatever you want to call us these days.
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reality is lost on them
I've come to the conclusion that the problem hostie's have today is a lack of respect for the role they are employed to fulfil. Unfortunately it is generally only crew that watch the re-runs of Aircrash Investigations and like-minded shows, rather than the general public. The general public unfortunately these days, treat air travel like all other forms of public transport. They seem to be oblivious (i think it is more likely they are afraid to think about) to what can go wrong at 40,000 ft and the limited options available if things do go wrong. They don't realise the extensive training we do for all types of emergencies - medical and mechanical - and really just see us as someone who serves them food and beverages. It is amazing how their perspective changes when they happen to be on a flight when something goes wrong - lo and behold, all of a sudden we are their best friend! Okay, things generally don't go wrong most of the time but when they do - and most of us who fly have experienced something or many things during our careers - the passengers are relying on us to save their butts (in addition to the pilots up the front who are also under the pump these days). It would be nice if our passengers considered this more often. Most crew i know are dedicated, hard-working, friendly people who do their best to be everything to all passengers and the flying public seem often to forget there is an aircraft full of people all wanting the same attention as them!!
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ZUZZ, you familiar with the expression ´teaching your granny to suck eggs´?
Apt in more ways than one here.
There´s more to aviation than the UK, there are airlines older than BA, and any CC worth their wings is familiar with the horrendous MAN accident.
Your posts are always a fruity combination of interesting snippets and deft sh!t-stirring. Add a touch of humour and they make for entertaining reading.
Still a load of sexist bollox though.
If everybody was so happy with the status quo, those stewardesses would have just accepted their fate and lived happily ever after.
But that´s not what happened.
They weren´t happy, and they fought long and hard to change their conditions of employment. Resulting in what we have now.
On the plus side women are no longer forced to leave a job they enjoy just because men dictate that marriage/age/motherhood are unwanted attributes. On the plus side too, lifetime careers for women; job & money security that provides a secure knowledge of independence.
The certainty that you will never be dependent on somebody else, but can provide properly for yourself and and a few kiddies if need be, has changed women´s lives profoundly for the better.
On the minus side, "middle-aged businessmen, wanting to be waited on by a young woman" are no longer assured of getting their rocks off on-board an airplane. On the minus side too, once the physical demands of the job become too great, FAs have to work until whatever pension age the politicos of their country have mandated.
Extra minus, their age makes it acceptable for people like Robert Coram and his like minded cronies to portray them as battleships, dreadnoughts, waspish grandmothers more interested in shopping and bone lazy galley gossipers. Sticks & stones; but nice it ain´t.
Two sides to every coin.
I was hired in the dark ages, under a 5 year contract with the provision of immediate dismissal should I decide to become pregnant. In those 5 years, a bunch of intrepid stewardesses took on the company and the politicians and got both the law and the contract changed.
I am grateful to them, and feel privileged to have a job that I am good at, that is interesting and challenging and never ever dull. A job where I was allowed to study and grow and learn how to use a great many different skills and talents. A job that takes me to all corners of the world and has given me a keen appreciation of how good life is in our own little corner of the globe.
It was and is an amazing adventure.
ZUZZ, we won´t see eye to eye on this. But we can both have our say and that´s a good thing.
Apt in more ways than one here.
There´s more to aviation than the UK, there are airlines older than BA, and any CC worth their wings is familiar with the horrendous MAN accident.
Your posts are always a fruity combination of interesting snippets and deft sh!t-stirring. Add a touch of humour and they make for entertaining reading.
Still a load of sexist bollox though.
If everybody was so happy with the status quo, those stewardesses would have just accepted their fate and lived happily ever after.
But that´s not what happened.
They weren´t happy, and they fought long and hard to change their conditions of employment. Resulting in what we have now.
On the plus side women are no longer forced to leave a job they enjoy just because men dictate that marriage/age/motherhood are unwanted attributes. On the plus side too, lifetime careers for women; job & money security that provides a secure knowledge of independence.
The certainty that you will never be dependent on somebody else, but can provide properly for yourself and and a few kiddies if need be, has changed women´s lives profoundly for the better.
On the minus side, "middle-aged businessmen, wanting to be waited on by a young woman" are no longer assured of getting their rocks off on-board an airplane. On the minus side too, once the physical demands of the job become too great, FAs have to work until whatever pension age the politicos of their country have mandated.
Extra minus, their age makes it acceptable for people like Robert Coram and his like minded cronies to portray them as battleships, dreadnoughts, waspish grandmothers more interested in shopping and bone lazy galley gossipers. Sticks & stones; but nice it ain´t.
Two sides to every coin.
I was hired in the dark ages, under a 5 year contract with the provision of immediate dismissal should I decide to become pregnant. In those 5 years, a bunch of intrepid stewardesses took on the company and the politicians and got both the law and the contract changed.
I am grateful to them, and feel privileged to have a job that I am good at, that is interesting and challenging and never ever dull. A job where I was allowed to study and grow and learn how to use a great many different skills and talents. A job that takes me to all corners of the world and has given me a keen appreciation of how good life is in our own little corner of the globe.
It was and is an amazing adventure.
ZUZZ, we won´t see eye to eye on this. But we can both have our say and that´s a good thing.
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ZUZZ, you familiar with the expression ´teaching your granny to suck eggs´?
! I did a quick search on hostie-history so as to appear enlightened and that event précis was attached at the bottom so I threw it in as an indication of the greatness which can be achieved at the worst of times. I takes me hat off to them.
immediate dismissal should I decide to become pregnant.
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"Maybe he would like to tell me what he would do if all of a sudden he had a fire/smoke while at 25,000ft on his 6am AMS flight..."
If I may... :
Tighten seat belt, sit and wait for the subsequent evacuation, I suppose. Very little in fact. It certainly wouldn't be to use oxygen. What did you have in mind that he should do?
I'd be doing same as him: count the rows to the nearest exit and wait to use it.
If I may... :
Tighten seat belt, sit and wait for the subsequent evacuation, I suppose. Very little in fact. It certainly wouldn't be to use oxygen. What did you have in mind that he should do?
I'd be doing same as him: count the rows to the nearest exit and wait to use it.
If you found yourself at 25,000ft on the way to AMS and a fire/smoke broke in the cabin, chances are that if nothing is done about it by the crew you just won't make it to AMS at all! Smoke is a killer,and the time for action isn't a lot!
The pilots may know or may NOT know that this is happening and need:
a) the cabin crew/stewardesses/flight attendants/dinner ladies etc to inform them AND,
b)the above cabin crew/stewardesses/flight attendants/dinner ladies to identify,tackle and estinguish the fire/smoke
while they make plans to divert/land as soon as possible. All of the above needs to happen before you can get off by the exit that is xyz rows in front of or behind your seat!
Try to put your head in an oven with a burning cake in it and tell me how long you can breathe before giving up.
I NEVER talked about oxygen masks!!!
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Irony at it's best!
Great thread but.....is Robert Coram not in fact now getting the attention he so desperately craves from "stewardess'"? Just occured to me....
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G-ZUZZ, I honestly cannot understand if you are being serious, if you are unaware of the danger and the severity/urgency of such an occasion or if you didn't understand what I said that for. I was replying to Need To Know after his comment (please read his comment in full and you may understand what I meant! He NEEDS the crew, were he likes it or not, for more than just to make him smile, and exits aren't the only important safety thing on the plane!)
If you found yourself at 25,000ft on the way to AMS and a fire/smoke broke in the cabin, chances are that if nothing is done about it by the crew you just won't make it to AMS at all! Smoke is a killer,and the time for action isn't a lot!
The pilots may know or may NOT know that this is happening and need:
a) the cabin crew/stewardesses/flight attendants/dinner ladies etc to inform them AND,
b)the above cabin crew/stewardesses/flight attendants/dinner ladies to identify,tackle and estinguish the fire/smoke
while they make plans to divert/land as soon as possible. All of the above needs to happen before you can get off by the exit that is xyz rows in front of or behind your seat!
Try to put your head in an oven with a burning cake in it and tell me how long you can breathe before giving up.
I NEVER talked about oxygen masks!!!
If you found yourself at 25,000ft on the way to AMS and a fire/smoke broke in the cabin, chances are that if nothing is done about it by the crew you just won't make it to AMS at all! Smoke is a killer,and the time for action isn't a lot!
The pilots may know or may NOT know that this is happening and need:
a) the cabin crew/stewardesses/flight attendants/dinner ladies etc to inform them AND,
b)the above cabin crew/stewardesses/flight attendants/dinner ladies to identify,tackle and estinguish the fire/smoke
while they make plans to divert/land as soon as possible. All of the above needs to happen before you can get off by the exit that is xyz rows in front of or behind your seat!
Try to put your head in an oven with a burning cake in it and tell me how long you can breathe before giving up.
I NEVER talked about oxygen masks!!!
You asked what would HE do. Are you saying he should get up and join the crew helping to fight the fire????
I think we're all taught that passengers helping out is not good. Unless it's on the ground and you need an ABP to open a door maybe. Or maybe with restraining a pax. But not fire fighting.
I still think he should stay in his seat while the crew fight the fire, and wait for them to open the doors (only AFTER landing) and then run away bravely.
Your flights probably look like this!!!
Do you work for this airline??????
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OK I get it now, you are taking the "what would you do" literally as what would he physically do. Of course, nothing!! But if his idea of safety on board (and the safety role of the stewardesses/cabin crew) is that it's a joke, apart from counting the exits then I would suggest that he started praying A LOT!
With my "What would you do" I did not suggest he started fighting the fire at all! On the contrary planes carry crew who are thoroughly trained for this! (well, at least in my airline!) It was intended as "what would you do if the stewardess/flight attendant were not there for safety reasons but just to make you smile and safety on board was just tut"
Is it clearer now?
Thanks for the links, I will watch them later and have a laugh!
PS: I cannot wait to have you as one of my passengers, I think I would really have a GOOD time...
With my "What would you do" I did not suggest he started fighting the fire at all! On the contrary planes carry crew who are thoroughly trained for this! (well, at least in my airline!) It was intended as "what would you do if the stewardess/flight attendant were not there for safety reasons but just to make you smile and safety on board was just tut"
Is it clearer now?
Thanks for the links, I will watch them later and have a laugh!
PS: I cannot wait to have you as one of my passengers, I think I would really have a GOOD time...
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It was intended as "what would you do if the stewardess/flight attendant were not there for safety reasons but just to make you smile and safety on board was just tut"
Good time? Well I'd be pleased to help you enjoy the job that little bit more. Where do you work - maybe we get ID90s there..?!?
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Since I started this thread I thought I would pop back in and see how it is going.
Some very interesting responses to this debate
and some rather odd = anybodyatall
Does anybodyatall actually understand the last post?
On a somewhat different but similar note has any one looked at the Jetbalast thread - I know G-ZUZZ has
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/3918...piry-date.html
Keep them coming
Some very interesting responses to this debate
and some rather odd = anybodyatall Does anybodyatall actually understand the last post?
On a somewhat different but similar note has any one looked at the Jetbalast thread - I know G-ZUZZ has
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/3918...piry-date.html
Keep them coming
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anybodyatall and Sacxtra_TV (one and the same person) have been working rather too hard recently, and have become tired and confused, which is why their posts have now been deleted.
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Totally agree with the article, I can handle illiterate yet stunning, but when they are and 
too.........well it just makes the journey a chore Bring back proper stewardesses
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The standards have fallen because alot of Charter & some Scheduled carriers use Temp CC in a bit of a shortcut to save on cost etc.
I have seen some really C*ap Temp CC and some very professional Temp CC.
The C*ap CC always seem to pass their initial screening tests and drills, But then seem to act and feel that they have the experience of a F/Time CC member.
If they know that they will not get kept on after October, Some of them go silly and try and do the job which they can't do.
It doesn't really matter to me if they have blonde hair or brown Fat or Thin? just as long as they are down to earth and not trying to be someone else.
CC are in a professional capacity and have more responsibility than they sometimes think that they have.
It can be 'Volatile' when you get a group of young silly CC working together.
Iv'e seen it done!!
I have seen some really C*ap Temp CC and some very professional Temp CC.
The C*ap CC always seem to pass their initial screening tests and drills, But then seem to act and feel that they have the experience of a F/Time CC member.
If they know that they will not get kept on after October, Some of them go silly and try and do the job which they can't do.
It doesn't really matter to me if they have blonde hair or brown Fat or Thin? just as long as they are down to earth and not trying to be someone else.
CC are in a professional capacity and have more responsibility than they sometimes think that they have.
It can be 'Volatile' when you get a group of young silly CC working together.
Iv'e seen it done!!
Absolutely top article, I thought
ROTFL at the thought of an outspoken hostie friend reading it.
Leather WW1 flying helmet on awaiting incoming.
Funny old thing, non aviation friends who recently flew with a well known Asian island airline which pushes the glam aspects of its stewardesses thought the stewards more agreeable and the girls a bit aloof.
ROTFL at the thought of an outspoken hostie friend reading it.
Leather WW1 flying helmet on awaiting incoming.
Funny old thing, non aviation friends who recently flew with a well known Asian island airline which pushes the glam aspects of its stewardesses thought the stewards more agreeable and the girls a bit aloof.