British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Desertia
In answer to your question the results were made "public" on the 2nd or 3rd of dec on the BASSA Forum. I will not provide a link but I am sure someone on here will 
I can confirm I voted and can also confirm I voted for ALL present reps.
I have twice on this thread tried to put a balanced view from a YES voter forward. To NO avail. Nobody is interested in hearing why, as we are all sheep, militants, scum and morons ( some othe words used to describe us).
I have a balanced view and have heard "the other side" many times from my hubby( who is against this IA).
I voted for strike action....I did not vote for 12 days over xmas BUT in ticking that yes box I knew what the possibilities were and would have to have lived with them.
And before you ask......Yes i will vote Yes again. AGAIN to protect MY future.
I can confirm I voted and can also confirm I voted for ALL present reps.
I have twice on this thread tried to put a balanced view from a YES voter forward. To NO avail. Nobody is interested in hearing why, as we are all sheep, militants, scum and morons ( some othe words used to describe us).
I have a balanced view and have heard "the other side" many times from my hubby( who is against this IA).
I voted for strike action....I did not vote for 12 days over xmas BUT in ticking that yes box I knew what the possibilities were and would have to have lived with them.
And before you ask......Yes i will vote Yes again. AGAIN to protect MY future.
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IHeartMBT
"AGAIN to protect MY future"
This assumes that BA is not in financial trouble, does it not? It assumes BA doesn't need to make savings. It also assumes that it's OK for the rest of the company to make concessions but not the CC. Yes or no?
This assumes that BA is not in financial trouble, does it not? It assumes BA doesn't need to make savings. It also assumes that it's OK for the rest of the company to make concessions but not the CC. Yes or no?
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IHeartMBT you candour is to be applauded, although in stating your case here I have never seen your defence of BASSA's attempt to deceive you by claiming they offered savings of 175m when they knew that the actual savings were 54m.
This is only one example of several where BASSA clearly withheld or distorted information to both the public and its members to engineer a yes vote.
The truth is out in the open now, and if you choose to strike before a judge rules on the case your union asked for, then you will get no sympathy from anyone when BA starts cutting staff.
Now that you know Liz Malone was a major factor in screwing up the ballot, do you not think it is critical that you replace her with someone who is less likely to make such a fundamental mistake? Or do you swallow BASSA's line that it is UNITE's fault? Because it sounds to me as if BASSA thought that if they kept it quiet, BA wouldn't notice. How THICK can you get?!
This is only one example of several where BASSA clearly withheld or distorted information to both the public and its members to engineer a yes vote.
The truth is out in the open now, and if you choose to strike before a judge rules on the case your union asked for, then you will get no sympathy from anyone when BA starts cutting staff.
Now that you know Liz Malone was a major factor in screwing up the ballot, do you not think it is critical that you replace her with someone who is less likely to make such a fundamental mistake? Or do you swallow BASSA's line that it is UNITE's fault? Because it sounds to me as if BASSA thought that if they kept it quiet, BA wouldn't notice. How THICK can you get?!
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Why do you all claim this to be a good result. Is it only me that can see that this is far from over. Go onto the BASSA or CF forums (even if you dont agree with them). The people on there ARE crew and they seem to be shouting very loudly about recieving NEW ballot papers.
So this dispute gets dragged into the new year, forward bookings will carry on suffering ( who in their right mind would book in the new year with BA as the union are threatening with reballot) and you call this a success?????
Success would have been that WW and Tony woodley had agreed a mutually acceptable agreement. NOTHING ELSE. (funny how as soon as the ruling was official ww walked out of talks
).This just drags it on for many more weeks/months.
If as you all claim u are worried about your future, NOW is the time to start worrying.
What was despicable about this whole affair was holding your customers hostage for your own benefit at the expense of their holidays. It was ridiculous to plan a strike action which was designed to inflict maximum harm not on management but on the customer. THAT is why people are celebrating - because the attempt to cause emotional harm in the name of industrial action was thwarted.
Sure - go ahead and strike in February. There will be alternate flights available and folks will have had their holidays. After what we've just been through you'll get zilch sympathy for your action from the public and if WW wants to take draconian action many will feel it was just punishment.
You can't just screw around with people's emotions and then sit back and expect they will support you.
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In Victory?
Ladies and Gentlemen. Those of us who do work for BA, no matter which side of the flight deck door, please remember that the first people you have to deal with after a war is your (ex) enemy.
On the preface to every volume of Winston Chirchills' writings is:
In War: Resolution
In Defeat: Defiance
In Victory: Magnanimity
In Peace: Good Will
Let us proclaim the peace and indulge in some good will.
On the preface to every volume of Winston Chirchills' writings is:
In War: Resolution
In Defeat: Defiance
In Victory: Magnanimity
In Peace: Good Will
Let us proclaim the peace and indulge in some good will.
Last edited by alwill747; 17th Dec 2009 at 18:03. Reason: poor spelling!
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But its not peace, the union still want to strike. It has been just a battle over who runs the company, BASSA or BA. If they think they can do a better job then let them send in their CV's, I sure the board would look at them with intrest.
If they should be lucky then they can give every member of CC lots of money for less work, isn't that what everyone wants after all.
I am afraid the bullying will increase in the run up to the next ballot. Lets hope not.
If they should be lucky then they can give every member of CC lots of money for less work, isn't that what everyone wants after all.
I am afraid the bullying will increase in the run up to the next ballot. Lets hope not.
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Papillon & Desertia
I am very aware BA needs to save money. My union may or may not have looked into the figures, But I know people i trust have. I am capable of making my own opinions on the facts available. ( Remember i have more "resources" than many other cc. Hubby is a pilot.)
I have read things in the past weeks from BA BALPA and BASSA and at somestage laughed out loud to all 3.
I am willing to save money, I would even give up a larger % of my wage than BASSA offered, BUT thats ME. I am able to financially do that. I am on an old contract. I am NOT the main breadwinner in our family. BUT there are thousands of crew out there on new contracts, who are the main bread winner in their families who cannot do this. Any "real" BA pilots on here HAVE to agree with this. They KNOW it is FACT.
Again as I stressed earlier I could also live with the fact of loosing a crew member.
AGAIN this is about imposition. Its the start of the End. Why can you not see that we are just trying to protect our future.
If I am honest from the start I was against IA over the Xmas period. BUT I would have striked as I had voted YES. (Infact I would not have been able to strike as I leave on a trip this weekend and would not have made it home for Xmas if the strike had continued). I am not looking for sympathy just stating a fact.
This is why I cannot understand the celebrating now. NOBODY has won. They are reballotting as we speak and the nightmare for all continues.
Once again I will answer anybody who posts a question or comment in a reasonable manner.
I have read things in the past weeks from BA BALPA and BASSA and at somestage laughed out loud to all 3.
I am willing to save money, I would even give up a larger % of my wage than BASSA offered, BUT thats ME. I am able to financially do that. I am on an old contract. I am NOT the main breadwinner in our family. BUT there are thousands of crew out there on new contracts, who are the main bread winner in their families who cannot do this. Any "real" BA pilots on here HAVE to agree with this. They KNOW it is FACT.
Again as I stressed earlier I could also live with the fact of loosing a crew member.
AGAIN this is about imposition. Its the start of the End. Why can you not see that we are just trying to protect our future.
If I am honest from the start I was against IA over the Xmas period. BUT I would have striked as I had voted YES. (Infact I would not have been able to strike as I leave on a trip this weekend and would not have made it home for Xmas if the strike had continued). I am not looking for sympathy just stating a fact.
This is why I cannot understand the celebrating now. NOBODY has won. They are reballotting as we speak and the nightmare for all continues.
Once again I will answer anybody who posts a question or comment in a reasonable manner.
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IHEARTMBT wrote:
And you think a strike WILL protect your future ?
You sound relatively educated compared to the cheering neanderthals pictured in Sandown the other day. Can you not see why a strike in this climate is nothing but suicidal ? Especially now you've been privvy to the universal reaction.
If you're that unhappy, resign - get a new job. Remember the recession is just a fairy tale - you'll walk into an equally well paid job with even less work to do and better T & Cs.
Just remember, its not 1980 and we don't live behind the iron curtain. Don't expect to be able to hold your employer and customers to ransom and have any support whatesoever from anyone outside you're utopian bubble - both coworkers and passengers have seen you for what you are i'm afraid. Deluded mercenaries
To the likes of GlamGirl, Tiramisu etc.. - i apologise for (and exclude you from) this rant - you actually give me a glimmer of hope than we can pull through this without too drastic an action. Your foresight and bravery is to be applauded - i hope WW has a list of the 770 people who voted NO.
And before you ask......Yes i will vote Yes again. AGAIN to protect MY future.
You sound relatively educated compared to the cheering neanderthals pictured in Sandown the other day. Can you not see why a strike in this climate is nothing but suicidal ? Especially now you've been privvy to the universal reaction.
If you're that unhappy, resign - get a new job. Remember the recession is just a fairy tale - you'll walk into an equally well paid job with even less work to do and better T & Cs.
Just remember, its not 1980 and we don't live behind the iron curtain. Don't expect to be able to hold your employer and customers to ransom and have any support whatesoever from anyone outside you're utopian bubble - both coworkers and passengers have seen you for what you are i'm afraid. Deluded mercenaries
To the likes of GlamGirl, Tiramisu etc.. - i apologise for (and exclude you from) this rant - you actually give me a glimmer of hope than we can pull through this without too drastic an action. Your foresight and bravery is to be applauded - i hope WW has a list of the 770 people who voted NO.
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IHeartMBT
I appreciate the response. And I can understand that imposition must seem harsh. The trouble is, I find it almost impossible to think of a method more guaranteed to destroy everyone's future than going on strike in the current circumstance. Whatever the problem, that surely cannot have been the correct answer to it. BA is in real difficulty, surely that's clear? A 12 day strike over Christmas could easily have pushed the company over the edge, and surely no-one wants that. However frustrated you might have been, rightly or wrongly, this was a disastrous move.
Even with it being called off, the damage may well be incalculable in terms of lost custom, only time will tell.
It's just seems.....madness - you know?
Even with it being called off, the damage may well be incalculable in terms of lost custom, only time will tell.
It's just seems.....madness - you know?
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AGAIN this is about imposition. Its the start of the End. Why can you not see that we are just trying to protect our future.
And you are trying to protect your future?
Excuse me while I have a bloody good laugh.
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The contract was imposed as BASSA comedically buried it's head in the sand and was unrealistic. A modern union needs SOME degree of commercial reality and acumen just to go into negotiations knowing the lay of the land. Everything, every single last utterance that has come from planet BASSA / UNITE has been literally from LA LA land, the late 1970s and student politics of the loony left kind.
I seem to recall that the last airlines that granted a snap-back in pay as BASSA was demanding was....one Pan American World Airways. That's what BA is fast becoming.
I seem to recall that the last airlines that granted a snap-back in pay as BASSA was demanding was....one Pan American World Airways. That's what BA is fast becoming.
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IheartMBT
And before you ask......Yes i will vote Yes again. AGAIN to protect MY future.
Which is exactly why I (and many others) will not be booking with BA for a long time.
And before you ask......Yes i will vote Yes again. AGAIN to protect MY future.
Which is exactly why I (and many others) will not be booking with BA for a long time.
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IheartMBT.
You state that you can afford to give up some of your salary. Good for you. I can't afford to re purchase trans atlantic tickets from elsewhere for my Christmas break. I have saved for two years for this vacation, for me and for my family. There is a time and a place. And blow me - if you're not striking in the summer, or coming out in sympathy with the catering companies, you're striking over the most sacred period of the year. I know how unions work and I know that quite often people jump on the union band wagon. You all need to wake up and get a firm grip on reality. The public don't aren't supporting you, many of your colleagues within the aviation industry aren't supporting you and even your union boss thinks they've got it wrong. The Heathrow crew earn more than anybody else in the industry - fine you want to protect your salaries; don't we all. But not at the expense of two years of my hard savings thank you very much.
Please do not brag about how you can afford to sacrifice your salary for strike action when others are grossly out of pocket due to your selfish actions. END.
You state that you can afford to give up some of your salary. Good for you. I can't afford to re purchase trans atlantic tickets from elsewhere for my Christmas break. I have saved for two years for this vacation, for me and for my family. There is a time and a place. And blow me - if you're not striking in the summer, or coming out in sympathy with the catering companies, you're striking over the most sacred period of the year. I know how unions work and I know that quite often people jump on the union band wagon. You all need to wake up and get a firm grip on reality. The public don't aren't supporting you, many of your colleagues within the aviation industry aren't supporting you and even your union boss thinks they've got it wrong. The Heathrow crew earn more than anybody else in the industry - fine you want to protect your salaries; don't we all. But not at the expense of two years of my hard savings thank you very much.
Please do not brag about how you can afford to sacrifice your salary for strike action when others are grossly out of pocket due to your selfish actions. END.
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A typical BASSA voter
I said TEA
Post subject: Are unelected Mrs Justice Cox,s first names Sucks Management
New postPosted: 17 Dec 2009 19:00
how is that democracy.
you play their game
you win
they cheat.
why did we ever think anything else.
an utter disgrace for justice
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Post subject: Are unelected Mrs Justice Cox,s first names Sucks Management
New postPosted: 17 Dec 2009 19:00
how is that democracy.
you play their game
you win
they cheat.
why did we ever think anything else.
an utter disgrace for justice
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Another J-Class pax voting with my feet, once I've burned my accumulated BA Miles.
"... for your comfort and convenience, but primarily for your safety" has long since expired on BA Long-Haul. Short-Haul remains surprisingly good. The 'safety' bit is somewhat over-blown, IMO, and the 'comfort and convenience' expired about 6 years ago.
Good luck to Willy Walsh, whom I expect has a few surprises for the Turkeys who are busy voting for Christmas.
"... for your comfort and convenience, but primarily for your safety" has long since expired on BA Long-Haul. Short-Haul remains surprisingly good. The 'safety' bit is somewhat over-blown, IMO, and the 'comfort and convenience' expired about 6 years ago.
Good luck to Willy Walsh, whom I expect has a few surprises for the Turkeys who are busy voting for Christmas.
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Papillon
Can I ask a question?...
WW releases the figures to the pension deficit at the beginning of the week.
24hrs later he comes back with "we have 2bn in cash reserves to fight the cc".
Erm????? Why doesnt he put the 2bn in the pension(biggest prob solved), then get back round the table with unite offer to issue an agreement that crew will not become surplus once new fleet is off the ground, keep the crew member off the flight and accept BASSA proposals re pay cut and agree a new disruption agreement.
I have noidea how many millions this would save, but im guessing at least 200 million as I think you will find that most crew would agree to the above as they are worried about the redeployment clause.
So we have saved 200 million from a prospected strike ( which can also be put into the pension fund). And the millions saved long term on the crew member off the aircraft, the paycut , the new disruption agreement, parttime andnew crew.
Which for me equals happy pax ( as no strike), Happy crew ( as secure future) Happier pension fund!!!. I would like to say Happy WW but I am not sure he ever would be happy.
WW releases the figures to the pension deficit at the beginning of the week.
24hrs later he comes back with "we have 2bn in cash reserves to fight the cc".
Erm????? Why doesnt he put the 2bn in the pension(biggest prob solved), then get back round the table with unite offer to issue an agreement that crew will not become surplus once new fleet is off the ground, keep the crew member off the flight and accept BASSA proposals re pay cut and agree a new disruption agreement.
I have noidea how many millions this would save, but im guessing at least 200 million as I think you will find that most crew would agree to the above as they are worried about the redeployment clause.
So we have saved 200 million from a prospected strike ( which can also be put into the pension fund). And the millions saved long term on the crew member off the aircraft, the paycut , the new disruption agreement, parttime andnew crew.
Which for me equals happy pax ( as no strike), Happy crew ( as secure future) Happier pension fund!!!. I would like to say Happy WW but I am not sure he ever would be happy.
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Mrs Justice Cox,s first names Suck
Robert Mugabe could get these people to vote for him winning the Nobel Peace Prize.
24hrs later he comes back with "we have 2bn in cash reserves to fight the cc"
It's a shame, because you said you look for answers.
The two billion was to pay salaries, suppliers and other operating costs, because you don't have the cash to pay these when you are LOSING FIFTY MILLION A MONTH.
For god's sake will you stop believing this BASSA twaddle!
BA put 1.8 Billion into the pension fund despite losing money, so if you are saying that WW is playing games with that, then you really are a piece of work.
Check your facts and question the idiots that run your union. This kind of comment is a DISGRACE. Borrowing money to "fight cc"? He wouldn't have to borrow money at all if you think for yourselves and stop believing every piece of divisive crap your union continues to pump out.
EDIT: Stopping the strike has not SAVED 200 million. It's stopped BA losing 200million MORE!
Last edited by Desertia; 17th Dec 2009 at 18:46.