British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Qstar
Thank you for your interesting posts about how QF aircraft are crewed.
Am I correct in thinking on a 747 you have 1 FSD (CSD) 1 CS (is that Cabin Supervisor) and 12 other cabin crew= 14 cabin crew total?
If it is that is what the new imposed crewing level is on BA's 747's. They they will soon be down to 2 pursers (your Cabin Supervisor grade) but less main crew but it still adds up to 14 crew who serve the passengers which includes the CSD to do some serving who did not do so before.
Thank you for your interesting posts about how QF aircraft are crewed.
Am I correct in thinking on a 747 you have 1 FSD (CSD) 1 CS (is that Cabin Supervisor) and 12 other cabin crew= 14 cabin crew total?
If it is that is what the new imposed crewing level is on BA's 747's. They they will soon be down to 2 pursers (your Cabin Supervisor grade) but less main crew but it still adds up to 14 crew who serve the passengers which includes the CSD to do some serving who did not do so before.
Last edited by Jean-Lill; 14th Dec 2009 at 22:59. Reason: mistake
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Oh dear. A lot of crew will be getting their p45s next week, and BA will be a better airline for it. The BASSA monster has finally eaten itself.
I dont think so. Remember, industrial action is entirely legal with a mandate of a proper adjudicated ballot, which it was. They can send out 9,500 P45s but will end up reinstating each and every one in the high courts.
Another thing - do BA even know what a P45 is, because it sounds like they can't even read a P60 judging by their view reported in the press that long haul CSD s earn 56k per annum and junior CC are on 35k pa. Incredible. Simply incredible.
Then you wonder who has a grasp on reality. Bassa talk a lot more sense and I'm being ever so polite here.
Oh dear. A lot of crew will be getting their p45s next week, and BA will be a better airline for it. The BASSA monster has finally eaten itself.
I dont think so. Remember, industrial action is entirely legal with a mandate of a proper adjudicated ballot, which it was. They can send out 9,500 P45s but will end up reinstating each and every one in the high courts.
Another thing - do BA even know what a P45 is, because it sounds like they can't even read a P60 judging by their view reported in the press that long haul CSD s earn 56k per annum and junior CC are on 35k pa. Incredible. Simply incredible.
Then you wonder who has a grasp on reality. Bassa talk a lot more sense and I'm being ever so polite here.
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Watching the news tonight it was pointed out to the chief stirrer of Unite that BA cabin crew are payed nearly twice as much as Cabin Crew from other airlines...... His reply was, "British Airways Cabin crew will not apologise for that..." Basically agreeing that BA cabin crew do
well. It seems that one of the reasons for the dispute is BA's proposal to reduce from 15 to 14 and now the senior cabin crew has to actually serve passengers!
Meanwhile in other airlines and industries workers are losing their jobs and taking pay cuts or freezes.
I find it amazing that British Airways Cabin Crew are going on strike. They
are completely bonkers.
Cood luck. Merry Christmas.
well. It seems that one of the reasons for the dispute is BA's proposal to reduce from 15 to 14 and now the senior cabin crew has to actually serve passengers!
Meanwhile in other airlines and industries workers are losing their jobs and taking pay cuts or freezes.
I find it amazing that British Airways Cabin Crew are going on strike. They
are completely bonkers.
Cood luck. Merry Christmas.
Remember, industrial action is entirely legal with a mandate of a proper adjudicated ballot, which it was.
Was it? I pose this as a genuine question, not a retort. I know nothing about industrial relations or employment law.
I fail to see how "are you prepared to participate in strike action" translates to "are you happy to give us a mandate to call, and ask you to take part in, one of the biggest strikes in the industry's history, at the most inconvenient time for nearly a million people."
I really don't think a lot of people knew what they were voting for.
I am in the process of booking with another airline. It's going to cost me a fortune, and I will take the BA flight if it goes ahead as it's more convenient. But they have just lost my custom for life. As, I suspect, is the case for many.
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Quote - QF is losing huge amounts of money as the service on board is attrocious, rivalling Aeroflot!, you are down CC's but how many CC's sit around the galley talking for hours whilst customers (who QF needs to stay viable) sit in their seats dinging the bell?
MMMM - see now there is a person who probably did not get an upgrade! So you get on a flight to london we give you Drinks Meals Beverages then Ice cream service, then we do a hot chocolate/tea service, we offer drinks on trays every 30 mins we go through with bowls of fruit, we then offer breakfast and beverages again on a 12 hour flight - Did I mention 3 crew + CSS. If you want personal service go book a private jet. Did you know Singapore Airlines 18 Crew on a 747. try flying in the USA you get nothing but your ass in a seat! We are losing because a ticket to the USA is $700 = $350 each way. No one is paying for the premium end, and its not just QANTAS all airlines are losing Even good old Singapore Airlines.... But alas this is not about QF its about BA and what they can look forward to with new crew compliments!!
MMMM - see now there is a person who probably did not get an upgrade! So you get on a flight to london we give you Drinks Meals Beverages then Ice cream service, then we do a hot chocolate/tea service, we offer drinks on trays every 30 mins we go through with bowls of fruit, we then offer breakfast and beverages again on a 12 hour flight - Did I mention 3 crew + CSS. If you want personal service go book a private jet. Did you know Singapore Airlines 18 Crew on a 747. try flying in the USA you get nothing but your ass in a seat! We are losing because a ticket to the USA is $700 = $350 each way. No one is paying for the premium end, and its not just QANTAS all airlines are losing Even good old Singapore Airlines.... But alas this is not about QF its about BA and what they can look forward to with new crew compliments!!
Last edited by Qstar; 14th Dec 2009 at 23:29. Reason: Quote
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Babymike737
- just for the record, I earn a more or less the same as I did when I worked for a low cost carrier! Pity the facts can't be represented properly. Oh and I will be working....
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Babymike737
- Just for the record, I earn more or less the same amount as I did for a low cost carrier - £20k. Pity the facts cannot be represented properly. Oh and by the way, I will be working, as I bet many crew will be and we're not 'bonkers'.
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I dont think so. Remember, industrial action is entirely legal with a mandate of a proper adjudicated ballot, which it was.
The poor unsuspecting public as always will take the brunt of any action. When the dust settles and the new dawn arrives you had better hope they come back to BA.
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the damage has been done...
I really fear the damge has been done - whether Unite follow through with IA or not. You can see on these forums, on the news etc that many customers are vowing never to fly with BA again - just the threat of 12 days of strike action has done untold damage to the brand. Customers have so much choice these days with other quality carriers (Emirates , Virgin etc) so what incentive is there to stay loyal to BA?
This proposed action will simply accelerate the decline of BA - we ARE NOT too big to fail and we may well see BA go under if this action goes ahead. Where will Unite be if that happens - hmmmm, lining their pockets I guess whilst the rest of us will be looking for jobs.
To survive - BA has to change it's cost / operating model - it's the only way. But is it too late?
This proposed action will simply accelerate the decline of BA - we ARE NOT too big to fail and we may well see BA go under if this action goes ahead. Where will Unite be if that happens - hmmmm, lining their pockets I guess whilst the rest of us will be looking for jobs.
To survive - BA has to change it's cost / operating model - it's the only way. But is it too late?
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I have little to add to what has already been said, other than to say that I hope that those CC who voted for industrial action reflect on their actions.
Whether you voted yes because you genuinely disagree with the proposals, or to "send a message to WW", or just because you blindly follow what your union tells you, the damage has already been done. Have a look at the front pages of Tuesday's newspapers on the Sky News website or the Have Your Say pages on BBC News Online.
The threat of 12 days of IA over Christmas and New Year really is below the belt and, frankly, you deserve all the ire you're going to get from the public over the next week (though much of it will be directed at your colleagues who work in the call centres and in the terminals).
It may have been the unions that behaved appallingly over the past year or the union that decided on the dates of the strikes, but you were the ones that gave them the mandate to do so. You are adults and you have to accept responsibility for your actions.
Whether you voted yes because you genuinely disagree with the proposals, or to "send a message to WW", or just because you blindly follow what your union tells you, the damage has already been done. Have a look at the front pages of Tuesday's newspapers on the Sky News website or the Have Your Say pages on BBC News Online.
The threat of 12 days of IA over Christmas and New Year really is below the belt and, frankly, you deserve all the ire you're going to get from the public over the next week (though much of it will be directed at your colleagues who work in the call centres and in the terminals).
It may have been the unions that behaved appallingly over the past year or the union that decided on the dates of the strikes, but you were the ones that gave them the mandate to do so. You are adults and you have to accept responsibility for your actions.
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Ba Crew Please Dont Strike!
I cannot believe that BA cabin crew are voting for a 12 day strike at the busiest travel period of the whole year.
BA cabin crew are of the most dedicated and professional of all cabin crew I know. I have travelled four times UK - USA this year twice in BA club and twice in economy. Each flight has shown me the dedication these people show to their roles.
This is why I cannot believe they would vote to strike for TWELVE DAYS over the major peak trade for any airline. What is behind this.
Come on BA crew, live in the real world. I work in travel too and was told in September last year of a Global pay freeze in my company. We all accepted this. BA will go under if this goes ahead. I suspect a hard handed Union. If so they have got it wrong. We all need to make sacrifices to survive in travel at the moment. If its not these cuts it will be no fee alcohol or no meals. Do you really want to work for a Ryanair ?
Come on Unite, please work with the trade and the public on this, everyone wants BA to survive as a strong global airline but if this strike happens you will become a third rate fourth choice airline. See the big picure, please !!
BA cabin crew are of the most dedicated and professional of all cabin crew I know. I have travelled four times UK - USA this year twice in BA club and twice in economy. Each flight has shown me the dedication these people show to their roles.
This is why I cannot believe they would vote to strike for TWELVE DAYS over the major peak trade for any airline. What is behind this.
Come on BA crew, live in the real world. I work in travel too and was told in September last year of a Global pay freeze in my company. We all accepted this. BA will go under if this goes ahead. I suspect a hard handed Union. If so they have got it wrong. We all need to make sacrifices to survive in travel at the moment. If its not these cuts it will be no fee alcohol or no meals. Do you really want to work for a Ryanair ?
Come on Unite, please work with the trade and the public on this, everyone wants BA to survive as a strong global airline but if this strike happens you will become a third rate fourth choice airline. See the big picure, please !!
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The only person who has damaged the brand is Walsh himself. His tenure has been characterised by management failure at every single juncture. Fuel hedging, fines, T5 fiasco, losing customer baggage, degrading the onboard service to laughable levels. No wonder the brand is damaged. I certainly agree with you there.
The cabin crew are one of the few aspects of the brand for which customers keep coming back. Degrade them and the brand is well and truly on its last legs...
The cabin crew are one of the few aspects of the brand for which customers keep coming back. Degrade them and the brand is well and truly on its last legs...
The cabin crew are one of the few aspects of the brand for which customers keep coming back.
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Electricflyer
I am very sorry to have to tell you that you have been misled.
The awards for unfair dismissal are capped. The process is likely to take at least a year. You will be expected to mitigate your losses by taking other work, and the company are highly unlikely to reinstate anyone!
I suggest you do some independent research before it's too late! There are many links if you look back through this thread.
Remember, industrial action is entirely legal with a mandate of a proper adjudicated ballot, which it was. They can send out 9,500 P45s but will end up reinstating each and every one in the high courts.
The awards for unfair dismissal are capped. The process is likely to take at least a year. You will be expected to mitigate your losses by taking other work, and the company are highly unlikely to reinstate anyone!
I suggest you do some independent research before it's too late! There are many links if you look back through this thread.
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This is why I cannot believe they would vote to strike for TWELVE DAYS over the major peak trade for any airline. What is behind this.
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Incredible.
For those of you who say that the reason people return to BA is because of the top quality service of the CC are clearly either deluded or flying with some BA impostor.
From my father...
"The arrogance and "I'm doing you a favour bringing you food and drink" attitude that I have experienced on far too many BA flight in both First and Club means I will never again fly with BA. Emirates/Singapore/Virgin have a better First/Business product and FAR superior Cabin Crew who make you feel like it was worth spending several thousands of pound on the ticket"
The Times didn't do you any favours today either, paraphrased from what I can remember, the reasons for the strike are....
"2 crew members being removed from long haul flights and Senior Cabin crew being made to serve meals in Business Class"
God forbid cabin crew should be asked to serve meals as part of their job description! You'd better be careful, they'll be asking you to assist passengers out of the aircraft in case of an emergency next!
For those of you who say that the reason people return to BA is because of the top quality service of the CC are clearly either deluded or flying with some BA impostor.
From my father...
"The arrogance and "I'm doing you a favour bringing you food and drink" attitude that I have experienced on far too many BA flight in both First and Club means I will never again fly with BA. Emirates/Singapore/Virgin have a better First/Business product and FAR superior Cabin Crew who make you feel like it was worth spending several thousands of pound on the ticket"
The Times didn't do you any favours today either, paraphrased from what I can remember, the reasons for the strike are....
"2 crew members being removed from long haul flights and Senior Cabin crew being made to serve meals in Business Class"
God forbid cabin crew should be asked to serve meals as part of their job description! You'd better be careful, they'll be asking you to assist passengers out of the aircraft in case of an emergency next!