British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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I just want to say that I will definately go on strike if it comes to that. I do believe we need to fight for our job because at the end of the day I pay my mortgage and nobody else. I am happy for the flight deck reaching an agreement too bed their agreement is linked to us and the ground staff reaching ours. I do not believe I qwn anything to the flight deck they are not related to me and they are not my family so I stick for what I believe I just wish they would stop morning when they get on the aircraft and respect our choice as we respect theirs. Respect after all is earned and not given.
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I am happy for the flight deck reaching an agreement too bed their agreement is linked to us and the ground staff reaching ours.
Good luck with your strike; you had a 97% mandate last time, and it never happened. How do you think you are striking to protect your job? Through BASSA's idiocy you are all on a hiding to lose your jobs, and the rest of the jobs at BA, when it goes under. The deadline was 30th June, or were your fingers stuck in your ears, when that was announced, months ago?
A small part of me wants that to happen; I have no ties, or particular family commitments, unlike a lot of my pilot and cabin crew friends, so I'm flexible, work wise, but I'd rather not go back to teaching (chemistry BTW, before we get into the "it only takes 6 months to train a pilot, and all my cabin crew mates have 6 degrees....). Let's face it - there are a minority of BA cabin crew who need a wake-up call; they've been asleep on the job since before I was born. Unfortunately, BASSA "represent" that very minority, having sold the rest down the river, long ago, meaning most of their arguments do not stand up to scrutiny.
Welcome to scrutiny, BASSA.
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I just want to say that I will definately go on strike if it comes to that. I do believe we need to fight for our job because at the end of the day I pay my mortgage and nobody else. I am happy for the flight deck reaching an agreement too bed their agreement is linked to us and the ground staff reaching ours. I do not believe I qwn anything to the flight deck they are not related to me and they are not my family so I stick for what I believe I just wish they would stop morning when they get on the aircraft and respect our choice as we respect theirs. Respect after all is earned and not given.
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BA needs to improve its communication.
The most obvious thing that jumps of the page to this neutral is that BA need to work hard to communicate with those behind the BASSA barricades.
The trouble with a union like BASSA is that the most vocal of them are the only ones who are speaking for the masses. These are also the people earning an astonishingly high salary for a job that, no matter what emotive "we're in charge of peoples' lives!" chants are repeated, does not require anything more than a decent high school education and a modicum of common sense.
I know people who would give a limb to have a job at the moment, and if BA published some of the senior CC salaries, I have no doubt that public support for these ingrates would evaporate in a heartbeat; is this something they either seem to forget or choose to ignore?
Neither - they manipulate, intimidate, scare and tell the rest of their union colleagues to "stand together" when they really mean "stand behind me and give me more power".
All it really takes is BA to get some sensible missives out to all CC employees outlining what they are trying to achieve, and exposing these overpaid prima donnas for what they are.
A former friend of mine is one of the BASSA brainwashed. ANY attempt at trying to ask her to look at other aspects of the current situation resulted in a mass of poorly spelt, capitalised Dave Spart-style nonsense that was clearly cut and pasted from the BASSA spell book. She knows nothing of the pilots deal, nothing about the state of the airline industry (she was shocked when I showed her how many airlines have actually folded), and knows nothing about the level of support WW has from the owners of the company. (I'm not even sure she knows there are owners!).
When I finally suggested that she's riding the wrong scooter, she went ape, and I and several others have essentially cut off all communications with her because she just sends torrents of these juvenile, whining missives to everyone on her mailing list - presumably another "good idea" from the 13-year old mentalities running BASSA.
It's truly painful to see how these "senior" BASSA people can so callously manipulate individuals into a way of thinking that is simply suicidal to their livelihoods, but there you go.
They remind me of the Rev. Jim Jones
But let's not forget that the outstanding truth is that they are using the herd effect to protect their own castles - I doubt they give a stuff about the younger and newer (and presumably cheaper, and in some cases clearly not so bright) cabin crew - they are just using them as cannon fodder.
It's quite depressing, and I only hope those that have the opportunity to have some reasoned discussion with CC who are questioningg the BASSA line continue to try and do so, and if need be communicate the real level of support for BASSA back to the company - it is clear that there are many CC who are starting to question this nonsensical BASSA approach but who simply cannot make themselves heard over the screaming and whining.
I do believe if BA can show they are reaching out to all CC employees, it makes the hectoring witches far less influential, and that can only be a good thing. Of course, all the hectoring witches will try and do is scream to everyone to put their fingers in their ears and go "Ner Ner ne Ner Ner" repeatedly until the nasty BA go away, such is the seeming level of their mentality.
The trouble with a union like BASSA is that the most vocal of them are the only ones who are speaking for the masses. These are also the people earning an astonishingly high salary for a job that, no matter what emotive "we're in charge of peoples' lives!" chants are repeated, does not require anything more than a decent high school education and a modicum of common sense.
I know people who would give a limb to have a job at the moment, and if BA published some of the senior CC salaries, I have no doubt that public support for these ingrates would evaporate in a heartbeat; is this something they either seem to forget or choose to ignore?
Neither - they manipulate, intimidate, scare and tell the rest of their union colleagues to "stand together" when they really mean "stand behind me and give me more power".
All it really takes is BA to get some sensible missives out to all CC employees outlining what they are trying to achieve, and exposing these overpaid prima donnas for what they are.
A former friend of mine is one of the BASSA brainwashed. ANY attempt at trying to ask her to look at other aspects of the current situation resulted in a mass of poorly spelt, capitalised Dave Spart-style nonsense that was clearly cut and pasted from the BASSA spell book. She knows nothing of the pilots deal, nothing about the state of the airline industry (she was shocked when I showed her how many airlines have actually folded), and knows nothing about the level of support WW has from the owners of the company. (I'm not even sure she knows there are owners!).
When I finally suggested that she's riding the wrong scooter, she went ape, and I and several others have essentially cut off all communications with her because she just sends torrents of these juvenile, whining missives to everyone on her mailing list - presumably another "good idea" from the 13-year old mentalities running BASSA.
It's truly painful to see how these "senior" BASSA people can so callously manipulate individuals into a way of thinking that is simply suicidal to their livelihoods, but there you go.
They remind me of the Rev. Jim Jones
But let's not forget that the outstanding truth is that they are using the herd effect to protect their own castles - I doubt they give a stuff about the younger and newer (and presumably cheaper, and in some cases clearly not so bright) cabin crew - they are just using them as cannon fodder.
It's quite depressing, and I only hope those that have the opportunity to have some reasoned discussion with CC who are questioningg the BASSA line continue to try and do so, and if need be communicate the real level of support for BASSA back to the company - it is clear that there are many CC who are starting to question this nonsensical BASSA approach but who simply cannot make themselves heard over the screaming and whining.
I do believe if BA can show they are reaching out to all CC employees, it makes the hectoring witches far less influential, and that can only be a good thing. Of course, all the hectoring witches will try and do is scream to everyone to put their fingers in their ears and go "Ner Ner ne Ner Ner" repeatedly until the nasty BA go away, such is the seeming level of their mentality.
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I would very much hope ....and i believe .....they are not ill informed.
In what way would you say they are ill informed ?
In what way would you say they are ill informed ?
How would you tackle the current crisis if not by cutting costs?
Speaking for myself, I always have, and always will, love my job and, whilst I do love British Airways, I cannot afford to continue for £11000 a year though, so if the Trades Unions call us out and it brings the company down, it doesn't matter as far as I am concerned! (....and so say 99% of my colleagues.)
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Times are hard
Bealine said: "Speaking for myself, I always have, and always will, love my job and, whilst I do love British Airways, I cannot afford to continue for £11000 a year though, so if the Trades Unions call us out and it brings the company down, it doesn't matter as far as I am concerned! (....and so say 99% of my colleagues.)"
Hang on. Not being able to afford to continue on 11 grand a year, whatever your personal circumstances, is a perfectly good reason for changing *any* job at any time. But I don't believe BASSA are negotiating any pay rises here.
However, I would have thought 11 grand a year is still better than none. If you meant what you said you'd have left and got another job already. If you feel you have no easy alternatives in the current job market, given your qualifications and experience, then assisting in destroying the hand that feeds you is just plain daft.
Either way there's something fundamentally wrong with either your statements above or the ones you chose to leave out.
Straight question: Does BASSA have you convinced that BA can afford to be blackmailed?
Hang on. Not being able to afford to continue on 11 grand a year, whatever your personal circumstances, is a perfectly good reason for changing *any* job at any time. But I don't believe BASSA are negotiating any pay rises here.
However, I would have thought 11 grand a year is still better than none. If you meant what you said you'd have left and got another job already. If you feel you have no easy alternatives in the current job market, given your qualifications and experience, then assisting in destroying the hand that feeds you is just plain daft.
Either way there's something fundamentally wrong with either your statements above or the ones you chose to leave out.
Straight question: Does BASSA have you convinced that BA can afford to be blackmailed?
the lunatic fringe
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Can you really become BA cabin crew with such a low level of literacy ?
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You know as well as I do that BA has hundreds of CC whose first language is not English.
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Speaking for myself, I always have, and always will, love my job and, whilst I do love British Airways, I cannot afford to continue for £11000 a year though, so if the Trades Unions call us out and it brings the company down, it doesn't matter as far as I am concerned! (....and so say 99% of my colleagues.)
As an aside, are you happy that some cabin crew earn as much as 4x your salary? I'm guessing not, yet you say you would still support them in a strike situation.
Last edited by air_wolf; 30th Jul 2009 at 10:43.
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I am well aware the that staff in the terminals have been through the wringer over the last few years, with the archaic and arcane practices of T1 and T4 removed, to form a relatively efficient, productive and effective department. Cabin crew have undergone no such transformation, which makes me wonder why Bealine is so keen to support their strike action.
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Just for the record, nobody will be paid "only" £11K. £11K is the starting salary, and the variable allowances (according to unions £8k a year) on top of that. People could live on that.
I'm not saying I'd be happy to change my contract - far from it, but so far, the company hasn't said they want everyone on new contract. Lhr crew have been told there's a choice in regards to the fixed monthly payment (opt in or out on a year to year basis).
However, it may come to it that we will all get new contracts in the post. Who's fault will that be? I have my ideas, as I'm sure others have, therefore I don't need to spell it out (and get more abuse sent to me...)
Gg
I'm not saying I'd be happy to change my contract - far from it, but so far, the company hasn't said they want everyone on new contract. Lhr crew have been told there's a choice in regards to the fixed monthly payment (opt in or out on a year to year basis).
However, it may come to it that we will all get new contracts in the post. Who's fault will that be? I have my ideas, as I'm sure others have, therefore I don't need to spell it out (and get more abuse sent to me...)
Gg
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Bealine
Just to clarify: Is your current salary £11000pa (£916.66pm)?
Would that be net or gross?
Are there any Shift Premiums/Allowances/etc on top of that?
Or do you currently have a salary higher than £11000 which BA is proposing to reduce to £11000pa?
Is BA proposing to take away any Shift Premiums/Allowances/etc that you (may) currently earn?
Also, your use of the word "love" in relation to your job and the company itself seems a bit odd. It seems that you take "love" to mean that you will love something/someone while they provide what you want, but if they stop providing it (or some of it) you will simply kill them, and walk away with no regrets. Have I got that right?
Just to clarify: Is your current salary £11000pa (£916.66pm)?
Would that be net or gross?
Are there any Shift Premiums/Allowances/etc on top of that?
Or do you currently have a salary higher than £11000 which BA is proposing to reduce to £11000pa?
Is BA proposing to take away any Shift Premiums/Allowances/etc that you (may) currently earn?
Also, your use of the word "love" in relation to your job and the company itself seems a bit odd. It seems that you take "love" to mean that you will love something/someone while they provide what you want, but if they stop providing it (or some of it) you will simply kill them, and walk away with no regrets. Have I got that right?
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Desertia, your post sums up the current situatin perfectly. I wish that the CC masses that are being taken this very dangerous path were aware these facts. I get the impression the BA communications/PR departments are gearing up for a wave leters/press releases.
Glamgirl, you have correctly (again, I believe) stated that the £11,000 is STARTING basic and has the annoying £8,000 of allowances to be added as well, so £19,000 statring salary - not too shabby afterall. But yet again, BASSA have spun it that cabin crew are on salaries akin to the poverty line.
Let us try and keep this debate factual rather than fill it with BASSA fiction.
Glamgirl, you have correctly (again, I believe) stated that the £11,000 is STARTING basic and has the annoying £8,000 of allowances to be added as well, so £19,000 statring salary - not too shabby afterall. But yet again, BASSA have spun it that cabin crew are on salaries akin to the poverty line.
Let us try and keep this debate factual rather than fill it with BASSA fiction.
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If you are currently on more, of course £11K + whatever is alarming. Why would you just want to "live on that" when your current position is vastly better?
WW is proposing to financially attack cabin crew. Surely, you would fight all the way to maintain your position. If not, then if the new pay structure meant you would have to leave, then why worry about the future success of your employer?
WW is proposing to financially attack cabin crew. Surely, you would fight all the way to maintain your position. If not, then if the new pay structure meant you would have to leave, then why worry about the future success of your employer?
Last edited by Litebulbs; 30th Jul 2009 at 15:25.
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Because litebulbs, if you had to leave to accommodate that shift in pay, taking the company down on your way would be nothing less than spiteful and affect many more than you alone.
The Unions that you deserve.....
Magplug was correct earlier. In the vast majority of cases, management teams get the TUs that they deserve.
WW inherited the mess that is BASSA - he did not create them. I'm willing to bet a few quid that by this time next year there will be no "BASSA". Unite, the TU, do not want them to exist as they do.
WW will have created the TU that he deserves.
He will also drive out the trot. agitators that are clearly active at lhr
WW inherited the mess that is BASSA - he did not create them. I'm willing to bet a few quid that by this time next year there will be no "BASSA". Unite, the TU, do not want them to exist as they do.
WW will have created the TU that he deserves.
He will also drive out the trot. agitators that are clearly active at lhr
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Legality
It's not the future success of the employer you should worry about, rather the legality of any industrial action. I'm convinced BA will use the courts to prevent IA and if Bassa defies any injunction, or even gives the impression of condoning defiance, then the leadership will be PERSONALLY vulnerable to prosecution: the union, of course, will be sued out of existence. Don't forget that all emails and even forum postings can, and probably will, be subject to subpoena: forget anonymity in postings, true identities will be demanded, and provided by webmasters under threat of prosecution.
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Litebulbs I'm sorry but I have read and re read the (albeit abridged) BA proposal. Nowhere can I see a pay cut suggested - that was suggested by BASSA - the only mention of pay was in relation to the monthly amount in lieu of non meal allowances - which is not a must for BA anyway but quite possibly a good way for the old crew to protect their allowances should the new new contract crew end up doing the premium routes. There is also the pay freeze but then - everybody is doing that and it is hardly a pay cut during a time of deflation.
Please stop listening to BASSA exagerations/fabrications and examine the material yourself and you may find yourself coming out with a different oppinion - I know I did.
Please stop listening to BASSA exagerations/fabrications and examine the material yourself and you may find yourself coming out with a different oppinion - I know I did.