British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: East sussex
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Whoops Mr B - finger trouble! Am not trying to wind anybody up as we all know this waiting for any news is excruciating. Will be very glad when all is over - thats for sure.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Oxford, UK
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Thanks for that! I appreciate what you're saying - I do believe that the reps are working hard as it happens - I do feel that both sides have been remiss however in not explaining their proposals in more detail prior to reaching the current impasse. Their are plenty of sharp minds in the crew community who would have been much more grateful for the information during these times. It impinges directly on us in our household as my wife's directly in the sights of BA's proposals and she's frustrated that she knows very little about what's being proposed by either party beyond the headlines, upon which she feels sufficiently uninformed to stop her making decisions.
As you say, and I wholeheartedly endorse this, let's hope it's all dealt with soon and to the satisfaction of all involved.
All the best,
Mr B
As you say, and I wholeheartedly endorse this, let's hope it's all dealt with soon and to the satisfaction of all involved.
All the best,
Mr B
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Shame she missed the meetings as good updates given and general points from members answered there and then. Maybe she could pop into the office or give a rep a ring, details are:
Opening hours: 08:00 - 17:00 Monday - Friday
08:00 - 13:00 Saturday
Office phone - 0203 165 0385
Good luck.
Opening hours: 08:00 - 17:00 Monday - Friday
08:00 - 13:00 Saturday
Office phone - 0203 165 0385
Good luck.
Join Date: Dec 1998
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I wouldn't be surprised had she not got those details but thank you nonetheless - if she's not been to see her reps as yet, I will certainly urge her to do so.
As I said, I think both sides are fairly culpable in this one. Selective dissemination of information serves only to make both parties look underhand.
As I said, I think both sides are fairly culpable in this one. Selective dissemination of information serves only to make both parties look underhand.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Middx.
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View of a BA Shareholder and Traveller
As a BA S/Ho lder and A Regular BA user whois generally happy with the service , I am dismayed at some of the comments posted here and elsewhere.
Today for e.g. there is an article in the Sun and The Daily Mail w5th headlines suggesting BA is scrapping free food/drink on Shorthaul routes.
If you look at the comments fm readers their interpretation is that its everything with comments from as far away as Singapore.
So far as i can establish Longhaul is unaffected apart fm chocs in First,
Shorthaul is affeted only in the off peak times and its only flights below a certain time length...is it 90mins or 150 mins?
I presume this sort of info has been leaked by extremist BA insiders as I haven-t seen any Press Releases fm BA and I try to follow things closely.
I also saw a comment in reply to an article in THE INDEPENDENT last week by someone who claimed to be an agrieved BA customer who supported everythig BASSA wanted and quoted almost verbatum all ths arguments for no change . I challenged this and he (Graham78) claimed he as a GOld Card holder flying Longhaul 3 x per month plus numerous shorthauls .
His detailed knowledge talking about early day reports , rest days , I can-t believe anyone but Cabin crew would know. He claimed he had gained all the knowledge talking to crew when he couldn-t sleep. I would expect a Gold Card holding Gobe trtting businessman to have been more objective
than to make such foreceful statements based on hearsay from one side
engaged in a dispute.
I can-t understand what people expect to gain fm this other than tarnish the image of their company and lose customers frightened of a strike.
If the aim is to get rid of Willy Walsh , what will this achieve.
His job as CEO is to ensure the companty survives in the interests of staff, shareholders and customers.
If he were to go ,do these people thing his successor would have a different agenda and the status quo would follow for Cabin Crew. I think
not otherwise he wouldn-t be around long.
I wish all the best to those sensible loyal hard working crew and hope they cam make their voices heard over the few hardliners who should
move on if BA is such a bad place to work.
Today for e.g. there is an article in the Sun and The Daily Mail w5th headlines suggesting BA is scrapping free food/drink on Shorthaul routes.
If you look at the comments fm readers their interpretation is that its everything with comments from as far away as Singapore.
So far as i can establish Longhaul is unaffected apart fm chocs in First,
Shorthaul is affeted only in the off peak times and its only flights below a certain time length...is it 90mins or 150 mins?
I presume this sort of info has been leaked by extremist BA insiders as I haven-t seen any Press Releases fm BA and I try to follow things closely.
I also saw a comment in reply to an article in THE INDEPENDENT last week by someone who claimed to be an agrieved BA customer who supported everythig BASSA wanted and quoted almost verbatum all ths arguments for no change . I challenged this and he (Graham78) claimed he as a GOld Card holder flying Longhaul 3 x per month plus numerous shorthauls .
His detailed knowledge talking about early day reports , rest days , I can-t believe anyone but Cabin crew would know. He claimed he had gained all the knowledge talking to crew when he couldn-t sleep. I would expect a Gold Card holding Gobe trtting businessman to have been more objective
than to make such foreceful statements based on hearsay from one side
engaged in a dispute.
I can-t understand what people expect to gain fm this other than tarnish the image of their company and lose customers frightened of a strike.
If the aim is to get rid of Willy Walsh , what will this achieve.
His job as CEO is to ensure the companty survives in the interests of staff, shareholders and customers.
If he were to go ,do these people thing his successor would have a different agenda and the status quo would follow for Cabin Crew. I think
not otherwise he wouldn-t be around long.
I wish all the best to those sensible loyal hard working crew and hope they cam make their voices heard over the few hardliners who should
move on if BA is such a bad place to work.
Join Date: May 2002
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I wish all the best to those sensible loyal hard working crew and hope they cam make their voices heard over the few hardliners who should
move on if BA is such a bad place to work.
Join Date: Apr 1999
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So not the cabin crew who say they'd rather bring BA down than accept any change, and would like to take the pension fund down with them because it would hurt the pilots (and you for that matter)? That seems quite hardline to me.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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I would very much hope ....and i believe .....they are not ill informed.
In what way would you say they are ill informed ?
How would you tackle the current crisis if not by cutting costs ?
In what way would you say they are ill informed ?
How would you tackle the current crisis if not by cutting costs ?
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LHR
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BASSA is a monster of BA's own making.
For years these people have strutted around the shop full of the self-importance the company have repeatedly heaped upon them. LHR BASSA have been responsible for perpetuating some of the thinnest rostering anywhere in the industry and ensuring that any attempt to move their productivity towards industry norms is met with zero cooperation. Historically they have lined their nests at the expense of fellow members and colleagues in BFS, GLA and MAN and are about to find out exactly how much support they will get from those members who dwell outside the immediate 'Illuminati'.
BA does not run BA.... BASSA does. Transatlantic aircraft have been diverted mid-flight to preserve CC industrial agreements at the insistence of BASSA at LHR, even when the crew were happy to work through disruption. Similar practices are rife in short-haul, the first signal of disruption is when the CC walk off the job. Who else pays senior crew members more than pilots ? The 'Spanish practices' that abound are frankly an embarrassment and more reminiscent of British Rail or British Leyland. They seem to have not a single original thought as was demonstrated over the pension fiasco when they finally attended the meeting and announced that they were aligning their position with BALPA's!
I said above that BASSA was a monster of BA's own making.... When that animal has been administered a bullet in the skull (probably by the courts), then the dysfunctional organisation that created will take it's turn in the spotlight. The size of the IFS management corps is akin to the Holy Roman Empire.... another large band of strutting, self-important dandys who would be better employed walking poodles.
He may not be very popular, but Mr. Walsh certainly has the measure of these parasites.
For years these people have strutted around the shop full of the self-importance the company have repeatedly heaped upon them. LHR BASSA have been responsible for perpetuating some of the thinnest rostering anywhere in the industry and ensuring that any attempt to move their productivity towards industry norms is met with zero cooperation. Historically they have lined their nests at the expense of fellow members and colleagues in BFS, GLA and MAN and are about to find out exactly how much support they will get from those members who dwell outside the immediate 'Illuminati'.
BA does not run BA.... BASSA does. Transatlantic aircraft have been diverted mid-flight to preserve CC industrial agreements at the insistence of BASSA at LHR, even when the crew were happy to work through disruption. Similar practices are rife in short-haul, the first signal of disruption is when the CC walk off the job. Who else pays senior crew members more than pilots ? The 'Spanish practices' that abound are frankly an embarrassment and more reminiscent of British Rail or British Leyland. They seem to have not a single original thought as was demonstrated over the pension fiasco when they finally attended the meeting and announced that they were aligning their position with BALPA's!
I said above that BASSA was a monster of BA's own making.... When that animal has been administered a bullet in the skull (probably by the courts), then the dysfunctional organisation that created will take it's turn in the spotlight. The size of the IFS management corps is akin to the Holy Roman Empire.... another large band of strutting, self-important dandys who would be better employed walking poodles.
He may not be very popular, but Mr. Walsh certainly has the measure of these parasites.
Totally agree with magplug, many of the LHR CC agreements are so arkaic they should have gone long ago. However one has to commend BASSA's strength for being able to hang onto so many of these agreements for so long, perhaps the strength of CC management at BA need's addressing...
If these 'spanish practices' can be resolved, I'm sure BA will come out the other side of this recession better for it
If these 'spanish practices' can be resolved, I'm sure BA will come out the other side of this recession better for it
Join Date: Dec 2000
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I have recently had the opportunity to speak with a senior Amicus rep, whose company I enjoyed.
I was, however, flabbergasted by their lack of understanding of the pilots deal - that despite being briefed extensively by BALPA. They had NO idea of anything beyond the 2.61% paycut and the fact that we would get that back in shares (sic).
If these guys don't understand the deal (or feign ignorance of it - but I think the former) then why would anyone expect the rank and file to be given proper explanations? So I see nothing being gained other than incorrect propaganda being achieved by contacting a rep.
Secondly, the schoolboy level of maths applied to savings claims are laughable. For example: Departmental budget £560m (or whatever) and 14,000 employees. Divide 1 by the other and you get £40.5k per person. 2000 headcount reduction and bingo that's £81m towards the target; this despite the denial of the CAA £29.xK figure.
Frankly, all this talk of reps working very hard is encouraging, but I would suggest that it is rather too late - they would have been much more advised to have put as much effort in and to have attended all sessions with BA before the 30th June deadline.
They are running around now like headless chickens wondering why their usual tactic of saying no has not worked.
Well I'm sorry, by not engaging before the last couple of days of June, you have lost control of the agenda. As I have said before, do Bassa supporters think you are where you are now because of clever tactics or because WW has got you exactly where he wants you?
BTW, I think the putative timetable of events as outlined previously is about right - just about one week now to go until the story starts unfolding.
I was, however, flabbergasted by their lack of understanding of the pilots deal - that despite being briefed extensively by BALPA. They had NO idea of anything beyond the 2.61% paycut and the fact that we would get that back in shares (sic).
If these guys don't understand the deal (or feign ignorance of it - but I think the former) then why would anyone expect the rank and file to be given proper explanations? So I see nothing being gained other than incorrect propaganda being achieved by contacting a rep.
Secondly, the schoolboy level of maths applied to savings claims are laughable. For example: Departmental budget £560m (or whatever) and 14,000 employees. Divide 1 by the other and you get £40.5k per person. 2000 headcount reduction and bingo that's £81m towards the target; this despite the denial of the CAA £29.xK figure.
Frankly, all this talk of reps working very hard is encouraging, but I would suggest that it is rather too late - they would have been much more advised to have put as much effort in and to have attended all sessions with BA before the 30th June deadline.
They are running around now like headless chickens wondering why their usual tactic of saying no has not worked.
Well I'm sorry, by not engaging before the last couple of days of June, you have lost control of the agenda. As I have said before, do Bassa supporters think you are where you are now because of clever tactics or because WW has got you exactly where he wants you?
BTW, I think the putative timetable of events as outlined previously is about right - just about one week now to go until the story starts unfolding.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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If OpenSkies is shutting down or contracting, could BA use the OS crew (BA trained and security-checked) in place of BA crew if there was a strike? Which leads to the next question. How many OS CC are there?
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Many of the posts from Bassa supporters suggest that the efforts of the reps are focussed on criticising Willie Walsh and his senior management, with the comms consistently highlighting mistakes and poor decisions. The problem is that this approach isn't working - if it had worked, the Shareholders' meeting wouldn't have given the Board almost total support.
Bassa need to start stating their case in the real argument - that of departmental cuts. And equally, it's up to their members to state where they can make contributions towards the total required, pay, productivity, headcount reduction etc. It's late in the day, but bull-headed obstinacy will only result in increased cuts to IFS, and a lot of anguish.
Bassa are used to getting their way and are now moving into unknown territory - they can only move forward according to their members instructions, (not a public show of hands at a highly charged meeting). The reps need to start being receptive, and listen to all their members, not just the vocal, politically motivated minority.
Wishful thinking?
There's still a chance to avoid a massive upheaval in the department, and for Bassa to eat a little humble pie and negotiate on the issue at hand.
Bassa need to start stating their case in the real argument - that of departmental cuts. And equally, it's up to their members to state where they can make contributions towards the total required, pay, productivity, headcount reduction etc. It's late in the day, but bull-headed obstinacy will only result in increased cuts to IFS, and a lot of anguish.
Bassa are used to getting their way and are now moving into unknown territory - they can only move forward according to their members instructions, (not a public show of hands at a highly charged meeting). The reps need to start being receptive, and listen to all their members, not just the vocal, politically motivated minority.
Wishful thinking?
There's still a chance to avoid a massive upheaval in the department, and for Bassa to eat a little humble pie and negotiate on the issue at hand.
