British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Join Date: Sep 2005
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My cabin crew friends are absolutely disgusted at the company's proposals and cannot believe how little their skills are valued and as a result are hell bent on confrontation.The only way to avoid a disastrous strike is for both sides to reach a sensible compromise.As i see it the 2 sides are oceans apart and the company continues to pour fuel on the fire with the latest sickness propositions,giving the absolute minimum protection to employees,just not acceptable from a major company.it seems more likely than ever that confrontation is just around the corner.What a disaster for BA and its customers and the employees.I never,ever thought relations could reach such a low as this.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Originally Posted by Poof In Boots
...If he has any sense he will not look a gift horse in the mouth and accept the BASSA proposals, which in my opinion have already given too much away. If he pushes his luck, then there will be a strike. It is not inevitable....
Exactly who is the BASSA proposal a gift horse for?
I've yet to see any detailed analysis from BASSA to explain how their projected savings are possible. Until then, I can't see how such savings can be possible from the proposal, therefore, I fail to believe that it is a gift horse for BA.
It certainly isn't for LGW! BASSA have very kindly proposed a 2.6% pay cut, despite BA not requesting a salary cut, just a freeze. Who is this going to effect? Those at LHR, especially the ones on the highest allowances from the being able to pick and choose their trips? Or those of us at LGW, with our hourly pay and minimum allowances? And BASSA have also been very generous when it comes to giving up our second purser on the 777 too. Admittedly, they agreed to the same at LHR but, if memory serves me correctly, that won't bring it quite into line with our one, unless the proposal has changed while I was away. Fair enough, we get to keep 2 pursers on the 4 class routes. All 2 off them! The real kick in the teeth there was when some of us raised our concerns regarding the proposal on the BA ESS Forum. We were told we must "share" the pain. Damn! If I'd known that nearly 4 years ago, we could have "shared" our pain with you then.
To be fair, BASSA have agreed to give up the telephone allowance. How much is that, by the way? We've been given a fair idea of the other allowance payments from previous posters, but why can I not get away from the idea that the telephone allowance is probably, if not the smallest, then pretty close to it!
From what I can tell, the disruption agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on, as it has so many sub-clauses to it that it becomes pointless. OK, you'll agree not to insist on 2 nights local rest, but only if the diversion is within the UK. What if you divert to somewhere like Bordeaux, a mere 1 hr 10 minutes flight time. (And that's on a 737.) Will you still insist on your 2 nights?
The other things in the proposal appear to be paying lip service, although, I admit being horribly tired at the moment, so may have missed some major saving in there somewhere.
But please enlighten me. Who is this proposal a gift horse for?
Jsl
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Don't know why I bother, but here goes anyways...
PiB, how do you know whether I was at KP meeting or not? Regardless, it's not difficult for anyone to find out what was said there.
I have digested, actually, and come to my own conclusions.
I have a question for you though: How did Bassa come to the conclusion they could save the company £176 million? Considering they counted the last disruption cost to be £60 million, which was the cost for the whole company to get back up and running. It wasn't just a crew cost, it was every single department, including hot-ac for stranded pax. The crew cost in the last disruption came to around £2million. That's £58 million difference... If you could answer me this question, that would be great.
As always, not holding my breath for a reply...
Gg
PiB, how do you know whether I was at KP meeting or not? Regardless, it's not difficult for anyone to find out what was said there.
I have digested, actually, and come to my own conclusions.
I have a question for you though: How did Bassa come to the conclusion they could save the company £176 million? Considering they counted the last disruption cost to be £60 million, which was the cost for the whole company to get back up and running. It wasn't just a crew cost, it was every single department, including hot-ac for stranded pax. The crew cost in the last disruption came to around £2million. That's £58 million difference... If you could answer me this question, that would be great.
As always, not holding my breath for a reply...
Gg
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Bermudatriangle,
Where's this "new" sickness procedure come from? Please enlighten us, as no-one else (including BA/Unions) don't seem to have heard about it.
Again, I will ask: On what counts will you strike? Because you feel down in the dumps/lack of morale or something else? Do tell, we're all listening.
Gg
Where's this "new" sickness procedure come from? Please enlighten us, as no-one else (including BA/Unions) don't seem to have heard about it.
Again, I will ask: On what counts will you strike? Because you feel down in the dumps/lack of morale or something else? Do tell, we're all listening.
Gg
Join Date: Apr 2005
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The gap is too big, 2 ways this is going to go.
1/ No conflict, some change, some savings, unhappy CC, unhappy customers.
2/ Conflict, more change, more savings, unhappy CC, unhappy customers.
Option 2 looks like the better long term option for cash/profit.
My thoughts are with the bulk of the CC who have little input to the preset position they now in, unions and management have allowed this market rate issue to run for too long, now the CC will be fast tracked into 2009 T+Cs.
1/ No conflict, some change, some savings, unhappy CC, unhappy customers.
2/ Conflict, more change, more savings, unhappy CC, unhappy customers.
Option 2 looks like the better long term option for cash/profit.
My thoughts are with the bulk of the CC who have little input to the preset position they now in, unions and management have allowed this market rate issue to run for too long, now the CC will be fast tracked into 2009 T+Cs.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Far too tired to write anything sensible except answering why BASSA and some of the crew want to strike:
Because WW has the nerve of wanting to change the terms and conditions at LHR. All said and done.
Because WW has the nerve of wanting to change the terms and conditions at LHR. All said and done.
PPRuNe Person
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it seems more likely than ever that confrontation is just around the corner
Now BASSA can expect to have to carry out some heavy damage limitation.
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Are there any cabin crew (not BA) out there who would speak off the record about their t's and c's?
Interviews would be anonymous, your ID protected - looking to get a balanced view of what other cabin crew working conditions are versus BA.
Please contact me via private message urgently.
Interviews would be anonymous, your ID protected - looking to get a balanced view of what other cabin crew working conditions are versus BA.
Please contact me via private message urgently.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Oh my goodness...
Just been reading on CF and I've never come across so much rubbish in my life. Peeps are actively encouraging each other to leap on "non-believers" like a pack of rabid dogs. They claim all pilots are the same (although I can't use the words they're using) and not to be trusted. The latest addition is to tell pax they're working for free as an excuse for not doing things right (!). This beggars belief, really. I would have thought these people should be professional and get on with the job in hand, instead of making us all look like kindergarden members. Unbelieveable...
Gg
Just been reading on CF and I've never come across so much rubbish in my life. Peeps are actively encouraging each other to leap on "non-believers" like a pack of rabid dogs. They claim all pilots are the same (although I can't use the words they're using) and not to be trusted. The latest addition is to tell pax they're working for free as an excuse for not doing things right (!). This beggars belief, really. I would have thought these people should be professional and get on with the job in hand, instead of making us all look like kindergarden members. Unbelieveable...
Gg
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GLAMGIRL.....the info re new procedures for sickness/discipline are apparently posted on BASSA website,9July under news heading.."and it just gets worse ",so obviously the union are fully aware of BA's additional proposals.
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Perhaps they are fully aware, but are they giving you any details or simply hamming it up for dramatic effect yet again? Do you recall how they said under BA's proposals EF crew would have to work an extra day each month, which means they'd all have to do an extra DME, TIP or ATH? 3000 EF crew. 30 days in a month. 100 extra crew members available per day. How many more DME, TIP or ATH services do you think they'd have to lay on every single day for that prophecy to become true?
How would the new proposals affect those crew who don't take regular sickies?
How would the new proposals affect those crew who don't take regular sickies?
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Skygal100, there is no indication in your post about why you want cabin crew to contact you, nor about what you intend to do with the information such CC might provide you with.
You do not provide a real name or occupation nor a verifiable means of contacting you.
We have journalists who come onto the website to obtain solid information from the experts in their different fields.
One of them is Ian Shoesmith from the BBC.
This is how he goes about it: Link
Transparent, verifiable and out in the open.
If you are a media person, I suggest that procedure wise, you take a leaf out of Mr Schoesmith's book
For now I urge all CC to heed the words at the bottom of every PPRuNe page:
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.
*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed".
You do not provide a real name or occupation nor a verifiable means of contacting you.
We have journalists who come onto the website to obtain solid information from the experts in their different fields.
One of them is Ian Shoesmith from the BBC.
This is how he goes about it: Link
Transparent, verifiable and out in the open.
If you are a media person, I suggest that procedure wise, you take a leaf out of Mr Schoesmith's book
For now I urge all CC to heed the words at the bottom of every PPRuNe page:
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.
*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed".
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Dear Mr Walsh
I very much doubt that Mr Walsh participates in reading these forums but
well done.
It's about time some one stood up to these over paid cabin crew and put cabin crew pay in line with their job role.
Why should they get paid more than Nurses, Firecrew, Police Offices, Armed Forces personnel, Engineers, Pilots that have trained for years, the list can go on and on. Have BA cabin crew got some form of qualification that I am unaware of that justifies them in demanding (expecting) the pay that they get.
I was on a BA flight to Antigua at Christmas and there was a Spanish lady who did not speak a word of English who became ill and not a single memeber of the Cabin crew spoke spanish!! it fell to a 21 old uni student to translate
.
To all BA cabin crew wake up, get real and appreciate what you get in terms of pay and life style. Think how lucky you actually are.
well done. It's about time some one stood up to these over paid cabin crew and put cabin crew pay in line with their job role.
Why should they get paid more than Nurses, Firecrew, Police Offices, Armed Forces personnel, Engineers, Pilots that have trained for years, the list can go on and on. Have BA cabin crew got some form of qualification that I am unaware of that justifies them in demanding (expecting) the pay that they get.
I was on a BA flight to Antigua at Christmas and there was a Spanish lady who did not speak a word of English who became ill and not a single memeber of the Cabin crew spoke spanish!! it fell to a 21 old uni student to translate
. To all BA cabin crew wake up, get real and appreciate what you get in terms of pay and life style. Think how lucky you actually are.
Thread Starter
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I was on a flight a few weeks ago with another airline. An Innuit passenger fell ill - nobody could speak her language. I immediately reported myself, disciplined myself and then fired myself in raw shame. Tomorrow, Seppuku beckons, on the living-room carpet with a gardening trowel.
Flaps up no lights - You're entitled to your view, and who knows, many I'm sure will agree with some if not all of them. However, if you're going to criticize, at least try and be reasonable.
Flaps up no lights - You're entitled to your view, and who knows, many I'm sure will agree with some if not all of them. However, if you're going to criticize, at least try and be reasonable.