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British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations

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British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations

Old 9th Jul 2009, 11:46
  #381 (permalink)  
 
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What really annoys me about this thread is the amount of pilots who, feel aggrieved that bassa has mirrored their agreement and then get annoyed when the cabin crew in their defence ask for fair share of the pain of these rounds of cost cutting.
Where's your £1800 per year cut in flying pay, extensions to Box C limits, increase to annual duty hours, reduction in short haul turnaround times etc etc. Did you forget to mirror those?
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 12:10
  #382 (permalink)  
 
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FlyerUK69, it's a well known fact that BASSA is run by CSDs, for CSDs. It's insulting that you're all so ignorant to what is going on in the company/industry/economy/world and that you believe all the lies BASSA tells you it defies belief. it's the blind leading a bunch of blind sheep.

It is quite shocking BASSA make such a big deal of Willie's comments on 'Fighting for Survival', yet it's all over the press bad-mouthing BA and threatening strikes which, believe it or not, could bring down the airline. Wake up and smell the roses. Find some common ground, reach negotiation and keep your jobs, or sink the airline so NOONE has a job??

Too long have the (old contract) crew had it too good. Too many years of NO NO NO and STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE, getting their own way. Welcome to a recession. Millions of people around you are unemployed or fighting for their jobs. Airlines are going bust. The pilots have reached agreement since they (BA, BALPA and the pilots) talk to each other like adults, using facts and, well, reality - none of which seems to occur with discussions with BASSA.

Drastic change is required from the cabin crew. I've read the BA proposal to cabin crew and it is VERY reasonable and fully justified. There is nothing wrong with the LGW operation, so there is no reason why the LHR one cannot become more in line with it.

Willie should send you all two pieces of paper. a new contract and a P45. you pick which one you sign.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 12:55
  #383 (permalink)  
 
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CC appear to be doing a good job at keeping hard won T+Cs, you do appear to be paid over market rate and hats of to you and your unions for that, good luck in the next few months.

I do find it hard to understand who some other sections of staff have such a problem with the CC, am sure these other sections would note take any interest in CC views when their own T+Cs are/have been under change, funny that ???
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 13:05
  #384 (permalink)  
 
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Joetom,

Every other staff group has had their Ts and Cs changed downward in the past 10 years, except CC at Fortress LHR.

No wonder we are all interested... we want the CC Ts and Cs "Assaulted" to bring you in line with the rest of us. And obviously were interested because irrational and stupid IA by BASSA could cost us all our jobs. the CC don't live or work in a vacuum. If BASSA members want to console themselves by calling it jealousy of your "strong" union, please feel free... We all know the truth that your "Spanish Practices" are unjustifiable.. but what ever makes you feel better!

We are entitled to know what's going on and express our opinion about it.

"Opinions are like a$$holes, Everyone has one"

(edited for typos, spelling, grammer, etc......but it still probably needs more work)

Last edited by Crash_and_Burn; 9th Jul 2009 at 13:35.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 13:16
  #385 (permalink)  
 
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I'm still wondering what certain crew are going to strike over?

NewFleet has been scrapped, so that's a no-go

Do you want to try and strike over working harder, ie losing a couple of crew on each aircraft? Good luck to you on that one, as it will bring LHR crewing levels to the same as LGW and we manage pretty well, thank you.

On the topic of the Fixed Monthly Payment, I know Bassa has suggested it would be £300 (ish) per month per cc. Not true. What the company is doing, is taking the costs of all variable pay (box/destination etc) for all crew for a whole year (January to December 08) and then dividing it amongst all the crew. Basically, you won't lose out, but have better stability in regards to your payslip every month. Also, this would avoid the huge sickness figures for routes such as the Indian routes and Vancouver.

You would also keep your meal allowances as they are. Surely not a bad thing? (Yes I know you don't trust anything management says...)

There were no calls for strike action on the Kempton Park meeting. So why are people still talking about IA?

There are no plans of cutting current cc's wages. We will have to work harder, but get the same-ish money. It is the new recruits (whenever that happens) that will have (yet another) different contract. I'm sure they'll be very happy to know that Bassa suggested this in the first place and were not concerned as to the New recruits at all, but then again, what's new?

Gg
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 13:18
  #386 (permalink)  
 
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Market Rate

There is a lot of envy an jealosy here in this thread and on this forum as you can see in the posts preceding mine.

BA crew have always been paid the Market Rate. The problem is the "market Rate" has been in a downward spiral for years. Crew on old contracts were paid the "Market Rate" in the 70's and 80's, crew joining since 1997 have been paid less on new contracts and have had little promotion opportunities. Since the late 90's the "Market Rate" has dropped again with the introduction of the SFG at Gatwick as an example.

The same downward pressure on salaries will also afflict Flight Crew and the £60,000 Captain is not far off in BA under Walsh. He knows what you are worth!

So in BA which does not have a high turnover of staff, there are still some people around from the era of old contracts and guess what, most of them are CSD's or Pursers.

As far as LondonMet (pilot giveaway pseudonym by the way), there are no CSD's sitting in "Offices" on 767's, 757's or the Airbuses. The CSD grade was brought in (as a CSO) by BOAC as it was recognised that with such a large aircraft as the 747, there had to be someone who was able to supervise all of the cabins. If BA want to write the CSD grade into the meal service, then that supervisory capacity will be lost. Currently CSD's write performance reports on Pursers, if they are tied to a certain part of the aircraft, this is no longer possible.

Last edited by Poof in Boots; 9th Jul 2009 at 13:31.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 13:26
  #387 (permalink)  
 
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PiB,

So CSD's can't multitask? CM's are doing it at LGW, so why can't CSD's at LHR be written into the service routines?

(No, I'm not jealous, filled with envy or bitter )

Gg
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 13:28
  #388 (permalink)  
 
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I think Gg if you were able to absorb what BA's proposals are, that they have made no committment to what the compensation they are offering is likely to be. How do you know there were no calls for strike action at Kempton Park if you were not there?

There is not huge sickness on Indian routes or SEA/YVR etc. Sickness is managed in BA under EG 301 and if crew repeatedly go sick on certain routes, weekends, Wimbledon, Cup Final etc it would be picked up

In reality there is little likelihood of there being a strike. Apart from a few mavericks lurking here on this thread, the cabin crew community are rock solid and Walsh will impose changes to our contracts at his peril. Only then will a ballot for a strike be issued. So it is up to Mr Walsh.

If he has any sense he will not look a gift horse in the mouth and accept the BASSA proposals, which in my opinion have already given too much away. If he pushes his luck, then there will be a strike. It is not inevitable.

The New Fleet was always a spoof. It is too difficult to achieve.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 13:29
  #389 (permalink)  
 
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am sorry? I thought we were having a factual debate about the airline. You sound like you're crying to mummy. As LORD DADDY FLASH above wrote "wake up and smell the roses". You have had it too long so OF COURSE it is going to be emotional when you're finally told you're over paid waiters. The truth hurts, but, I can assure you from past experiences being jobless hurts even more.

L Met
There are some very ignorant postings.As someone who has done the job I understand the problems.Yes there has to be some changes and yes they have to be fairly negotiated.Please do not refer to cabin crew as waiters.These are the people who are trained to save your life in an emergency.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 13:55
  #390 (permalink)  
 
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poof in boots.

can you please explain "If he has any sense he will not look a gift horse in the mouth and accept the BASSA proposals, which in my opinion have already given too much away. " in more detail, especially how they (BASSA proposals) will benefit the company.

cheers,

LDF.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 14:28
  #391 (permalink)  
 
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The same downward pressure on salaries will also afflict Flight Crew and the £60,000 Captain is not far off in BA under Walsh. He knows what you are worth!
Poof In Boots

Yes but what about the current CSD's earning £60,000 + ?

I think WW knows what you are worth as well

I've just come back from a trip where this thread was a depressingly hot topic, depressing because the CSD couldn't give a monkeys about anyone else but herself and then she wondered why all the other CC stayed within their rooms. The most damning thing was watching her go through her diary and plan 'sick' days months in advance and think it was right to do so.

She said everyone was anti-BASSA on this thread. I quietly slipped away leaving her ranting to my colleague the restaurant.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 15:44
  #392 (permalink)  
 
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Poof In Boots

Yes but what about the current CSD's earning £60,000 + ?

I think WW knows what you are worth as well
Who knows, maybe WW will pull the obvious move and make the position of CSD redundant. Im sure that would go a long way towards reaching the redundancy target of 2000+ and it will also solve the issue of remuneration in one fail swoop. BASSA are fast approaching self destruction!
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 18:13
  #393 (permalink)  
 
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Poof in Boots

some of the comments come from pilots, who I wouldn't trust to wash my car.
Sad nonsense really, as you trust pilots with your life each and every time you go to work.

But when in this thread have facts or truth ever come into the equation
Condemned by your own words.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 18:21
  #394 (permalink)  
 
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Market Rate

I am surprised that no one here has picked up on the fact BA crew have always been paid the Market Rate, according to when they joined the company.

Why is this?

Juan, I do not trust pilots with my life anymore than I trust a coach driver with my life, or my mother driving the car. They are paid not to make mistakes.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 18:38
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I do not trust pilots with my life anymore than I trust a coach driver with my life, or my mother driving the car.
Come on chaps, lets leave the pilots vs cabin crew rubbish out of this. Does noone any favours. We are all in it together, lets just hope something gets sorted.

Willie has a plan, striking would be playing right into his hands. Bassa needs to play smart and stop the tabloid propaganda.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 20:43
  #396 (permalink)  
 
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Question for Poof In Boots

Poof In Boots

Are you really a CC employee in IFCE? The reason I ask is that I personally know, and have worked alongside, CSD's who have grossed over £60,000.

I wonder who, or what, you really are?
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 21:32
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I have seen CSD's payslips with well over £4000 take home in a month.

Puff in Boots, can you honestly say that a CSD should be taking home what an average head teacher takes home?

I'd be paying them £2k max per month, max, and have them hand out the meals and drinks too.

I employ people so I know what the value of work done is.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 22:59
  #398 (permalink)  

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I am seriously worried for the mental state of some posters. Out of courtesy (and for the forum rules), I won't name them.

I don't mean that they are mad, but some serious denial is taking place here. When the inevitable happens to BASSA I am very concerned that they will be mentally unprepared.

Constantly repeating a false viewpoint won't delay the inevitable. The 'pure denial' phase is evident in some contributions. Some of us have been trying to help by making suggestions for a considerable time. We have received no thanks from some. Most pilots have no wish to see their colleagues led to the scaffold but that is what BASSA is doing.

PiB: we get the message, you do not value pilots. Fine, the big cabin in the sky will continue to magically get you to destination. Some news for you: your valuation of us is irrelevant, it is BA's that matters. Likewise, your (supposed) profession is about to be valued by BA against the marketplace, we will see what will happen, good luck
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 23:00
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I'm currently on the Worldwide fleet at LHR ... I'm not a BASSA member, although I was once - until I tired of their childish attitude towards everyone else but themselves.

I've read the MOA/Proposal for crew at LHR and there is absolutely nothing unreasonable about it at all (obviously details on the monthly fixed payment are to be arranged).

I am very glad to see that the CSDs will be part of the service routine - to their credit, many CSDs already grab a trolley and get on with it, but many others do very little other than push buttons in the office, raid the First class galley for food and read the Daily Mail ... enough is enough ...

I will be sad to see the end of 2 nights off in LAX, SFO and so on, as well as the reduction in crewmembers but to heck with it .... the company is in DIRE straits (FACT) so let's pull our fingers out from behind and bite the bullet.

To be honest, I can't wait for the company to just shove the MOA under everyone's nose - sign it, or leave .... the rest of us (not many, sadly) can then get on with getting the company back to where it should be, and those with no sense will have left, or come to their senses.

Striking is UTTER MADNESS given the reasonable conditions being offered, and the state of the finances. Hopefully the company will stop such madness through a Court Order (I'm sure it's all been planned in any case ...)

Sorry to say I'm disappointed in the attitude of many of my colleagues; fortunately some CSDs and other crew have a better grip on reality ...

BASSA = Old Boys Network .... the simple truth.

They are not protecting crew, they are simply leading them very slowly towards the edge of the cliff .... sad. Glad I left ....
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 23:27
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It is quite alarming that some of the comments come from pilots, who I wouldn't trust to wash my car.
I think it is time for you to retire. Your life, every day you work, is in the hands of pilots that you hate so much.

Honestly, It is time to move on.
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