BA and Project Columbus III
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Stall Pusher:
Your postings betray your prejudices all too clearly.
What you didn't post was that the BALPA deal will not happen unless all the other groups pull their weight.....
So unless BASSA learn the meaning of the verb 'negotiate' then the pilot pay cut will not happen!
The pilots have settled with BA, looks like a certain union is going to be standing out in the playground by itself when the school bell rings....
Your postings betray your prejudices all too clearly.
What you didn't post was that the BALPA deal will not happen unless all the other groups pull their weight.....
So unless BASSA learn the meaning of the verb 'negotiate' then the pilot pay cut will not happen!
The pilots have settled with BA, looks like a certain union is going to be standing out in the playground by itself when the school bell rings....
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Dear Moderator. There have been a lot of attacks here on BASSA.
The 757's were going anyway to OpenSkies.....but now they are not.
There are eight 744's being 'rested'.
It is strange that BALPA have looked into BA's books and decided on a pay cut for its members, when the following should have been considered:
1. Why has British Airways been mis-managed to a degree that Willie Walsh and the Board have turned a profit before tax of £922m in 2008, into a loss before tax of £401m this year - a staggering difference of £1,323m!
2. Half of this amount appears to be the cost of fines levied on the company by the regulatory authorities over criminal actions, for participating in illegal fuel surcharge and cargo cartels.
3. Doesn't a company the size of British Airways deserve a Chairman that is prepared to devote his full attention to the matter of running the company successfully, rather than leaving it in the hands of someone who only works part-time in the job?
It seems that if the pilots are happy to reward incompetence on such a grand scale by donating part of their salaries away, it necessarily follows that perhaps this was not an intelligent thing to do.
The 757's were going anyway to OpenSkies.....but now they are not.
There are eight 744's being 'rested'.
It is strange that BALPA have looked into BA's books and decided on a pay cut for its members, when the following should have been considered:
1. Why has British Airways been mis-managed to a degree that Willie Walsh and the Board have turned a profit before tax of £922m in 2008, into a loss before tax of £401m this year - a staggering difference of £1,323m!
2. Half of this amount appears to be the cost of fines levied on the company by the regulatory authorities over criminal actions, for participating in illegal fuel surcharge and cargo cartels.
3. Doesn't a company the size of British Airways deserve a Chairman that is prepared to devote his full attention to the matter of running the company successfully, rather than leaving it in the hands of someone who only works part-time in the job?
It seems that if the pilots are happy to reward incompetence on such a grand scale by donating part of their salaries away, it necessarily follows that perhaps this was not an intelligent thing to do.
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2. Half of this amount appears to be the cost of fines levied on the company by the regulatory authorities over criminal actions, for participating in illegal fuel surcharge and cargo cartels.
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Comparisons
Stallpusher,
To answer your first question. Yes there is a difference of £1.3Bn year on year. One billion is an increase in fuel costs as the oil price went to a record high of approx $150 a barrel. Yes it did dip later to around $50 but is heading back up again $70 at the moment you'll notice unleaded is now back over £1 again. As for the other £300m that is the recession people aren't paying the higher fares and the banks aren't travelling as much as they did.
As BA can't stop a recession or change the price of oil, that leaves employee costs and productivity. We're doing our bit and many parts of the company have over the last few years, so over to you. It will be less painful if you negotiate.
To you second question, the fines were in the previous financial year's figures not last year's. So the figures are worse than you choose to believe.
CB
To answer your first question. Yes there is a difference of £1.3Bn year on year. One billion is an increase in fuel costs as the oil price went to a record high of approx $150 a barrel. Yes it did dip later to around $50 but is heading back up again $70 at the moment you'll notice unleaded is now back over £1 again. As for the other £300m that is the recession people aren't paying the higher fares and the banks aren't travelling as much as they did.
As BA can't stop a recession or change the price of oil, that leaves employee costs and productivity. We're doing our bit and many parts of the company have over the last few years, so over to you. It will be less painful if you negotiate.
To you second question, the fines were in the previous financial year's figures not last year's. So the figures are worse than you choose to believe.
CB
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Well BA is doomed anyway when the oil runs out!
I seriously doubt that BASSA will be stupid enough to strike, at this point in time it may not be the wisest of moves, I also seriously doubt that BA will go bust.
I seriously doubt that BASSA will be stupid enough to strike, at this point in time it may not be the wisest of moves, I also seriously doubt that BA will go bust.
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ba and project columbus 111
hi,
i would just like to make the following point.
willie will be taking his cue from the cabin crew unions at the end of june - as cabin crew, i'm sure that you are aware that bassa has a poll on their website - the information taken from that poll will be presented to willie at the end of the month and based on that information he will make his decisions.
i can't see that willie will be listening to individual voices - possibly hasn't got the time.
you can argue away here but if you want your voice heard you need to either fill in the bassa poll or get amicus to start up a similar poll.
i've spoken to lots of crew who don't seem to realise that completing the poll is important - otherwise, willie will just be getting a minority point of view. scary for all of us.
so, my advice is, to get off your b*******s and make sure your voices are heard.
i would just like to make the following point.
willie will be taking his cue from the cabin crew unions at the end of june - as cabin crew, i'm sure that you are aware that bassa has a poll on their website - the information taken from that poll will be presented to willie at the end of the month and based on that information he will make his decisions.
i can't see that willie will be listening to individual voices - possibly hasn't got the time.
you can argue away here but if you want your voice heard you need to either fill in the bassa poll or get amicus to start up a similar poll.
i've spoken to lots of crew who don't seem to realise that completing the poll is important - otherwise, willie will just be getting a minority point of view. scary for all of us.
so, my advice is, to get off your b*******s and make sure your voices are heard.
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Virginia
Well that's a very cosy and happy-ever-after point of view.
What sort of foundations have you based it on?
I seriously doubt that BASSA will be stupid enough to strike, at this point in time it may not be the wisest of moves, I also seriously doubt that BA will go bust.
What sort of foundations have you based it on?
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Can those who believe that BA is pulling a fast one and is preparing to make a fortune in the forseeable future please provide some sort of statistical basis for this notion?
There are plenty of numbers out there showing our dire financial position, but I've seen none from Bassa to support their argument.
Lots of emotive rhetoric to stir up the troops, but no stats to create a reasonable argument.
There are plenty of numbers out there showing our dire financial position, but I've seen none from Bassa to support their argument.
Lots of emotive rhetoric to stir up the troops, but no stats to create a reasonable argument.
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There has been a lot of talk on here (and other places) about Bassa suggesting cost cuttings (albeit temporary). However, I can't seem to find anywhere what those suggestions are/were.
Could anyone please enlighten us? Or have they not released this information, but telling members to trust their reps?
There is another forum around where there is so much hatred and bitterness towards management, fellow crew, pilots and anyone else that it's actually quite shocking to read. I know this is not everyone, but it must be very draining being so angry all the time.
Gg
Could anyone please enlighten us? Or have they not released this information, but telling members to trust their reps?
There is another forum around where there is so much hatred and bitterness towards management, fellow crew, pilots and anyone else that it's actually quite shocking to read. I know this is not everyone, but it must be very draining being so angry all the time.
Gg
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2008/2009 annual report & accounts. Chief Executive's Review.
"This focus on premium markets may look strange at a time when premium traffic, according to IATA’s latest figures, has declined by around 19 per cent in the first three months of 2009, and when we have been forced to cut back our premium capacity by parking aircraft and reducing flying.
We check our vision against our short-term actions regularly and are convinced it remains valid. For a start, it marks a continuation of the work we have already done to improve our products and services. We remain convinced that this is the part of the market where we need to be powerfully represented when conditions improve – as they inevitably will."
"This focus on premium markets may look strange at a time when premium traffic, according to IATA’s latest figures, has declined by around 19 per cent in the first three months of 2009, and when we have been forced to cut back our premium capacity by parking aircraft and reducing flying.
We check our vision against our short-term actions regularly and are convinced it remains valid. For a start, it marks a continuation of the work we have already done to improve our products and services. We remain convinced that this is the part of the market where we need to be powerfully represented when conditions improve – as they inevitably will."
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Glamgirl
The latest that I could find was the BASSA Latest News update of 31May (on the BASSA website). This was the idea that instead of Newfleet, there should be Newcrew. That's to say that new crew would work on current fleets instead of the seperate proposed new fleet.
Beyond that, I can't see much of any substance. There are a few more news-flashes post 31May, some of which (Walsh set for £2.4m pay out, for example, posted on 11June) have yet to be updated with current, correct info.
I think you can safely go with the 2nd sentence of your 2nd paragraph.
As to your 3rd paragraph: Yes, I've noticed quite a few crew lately that are so drained that they find it hard to do things such as post take-off PAs, 2nd bar rounds on band4 sectors, hold a delicup/tumbler at it's base, offer the choice of meals/sandwiches, play the foreign language PAs, play the subtitles on the safety demo video and other such demanding aspects of our job. I even had a briefing recently where the CSD told us that the service routine was "chuck it out, clear it in, read the paper". Truly inspirational!
The above mentioned crew are good at running off the aircraft and through Terminal 5 though, so I guess they can't be that drained after all
PC767
That was then .... this is now. To be fair though, I do see the point you are trying to make. But do you expect premium loads/yields NEVER to improve? I'm sure they will, but in years, not months, and probably not at the £s we have been used to.
Let's hope that the mention of "work we have already done to improve our products and services" wasn't relating to hot towels in WT+ as we really wouldn't want to be caught telling porkies would we?
The latest that I could find was the BASSA Latest News update of 31May (on the BASSA website). This was the idea that instead of Newfleet, there should be Newcrew. That's to say that new crew would work on current fleets instead of the seperate proposed new fleet.
Beyond that, I can't see much of any substance. There are a few more news-flashes post 31May, some of which (Walsh set for £2.4m pay out, for example, posted on 11June) have yet to be updated with current, correct info.
I think you can safely go with the 2nd sentence of your 2nd paragraph.
As to your 3rd paragraph: Yes, I've noticed quite a few crew lately that are so drained that they find it hard to do things such as post take-off PAs, 2nd bar rounds on band4 sectors, hold a delicup/tumbler at it's base, offer the choice of meals/sandwiches, play the foreign language PAs, play the subtitles on the safety demo video and other such demanding aspects of our job. I even had a briefing recently where the CSD told us that the service routine was "chuck it out, clear it in, read the paper". Truly inspirational!
The above mentioned crew are good at running off the aircraft and through Terminal 5 though, so I guess they can't be that drained after all
PC767
That was then .... this is now. To be fair though, I do see the point you are trying to make. But do you expect premium loads/yields NEVER to improve? I'm sure they will, but in years, not months, and probably not at the £s we have been used to.
Let's hope that the mention of "work we have already done to improve our products and services" wasn't relating to hot towels in WT+ as we really wouldn't want to be caught telling porkies would we?
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Well, those are the crew that I'm ashamed to call colleagues. It can be a tiring job at times, but take the rough with the smooth and it's a darned good job to have. If everyone could just do what they're supposed to do when they're supposed to do it on the aircraft we would be the best in the world. Problem is, too many think passengers are an inconvenience and distraction.
This kind of attitude bothers me a great deal, and I just wish people could do their job as they're supposed to.
Anyways... I'll keep dreaming and hoping...
Gg
This kind of attitude bothers me a great deal, and I just wish people could do their job as they're supposed to.
Anyways... I'll keep dreaming and hoping...
Gg
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Stall Pusher, and BASSA,
I am saddened by the way there are so many attacks on the CEO, and in one post the Chairman.
Why cant BASSA stop picking convenient bits of history and move forward?
Hedging is done by most businesses, and indeed by many individuals. Who hasn't bought a bottle of Scotch and filled their petrol tank on the day of the Budget...........just in case the Chancellor increases the relevant duties? That is hedging!!
Prudent companies also buy harvests when the price is low, or in the case of airlines with a known need for fuel, buy fuel when they think the costs is advantageous.
I find it somewhat ludicrous, and sadly bizarrely hypocritical, that BASSA is able to use this line to us Cabin Crew. Lets face it, we kniow a Sale, or a bargain when we see one......or we think we do!! Who hasn't bought things at Abercrombie and Fitch, Maceys, Walmart, Tesco or ASDA when they thought they were getting a good deal? This is exactly what BA were doing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
um.....and those attacks on 'price fixing' always seem to forget that people have actually gone to jail over it.......and they are still locked up!!
With T5, the buck stopped with Willie. Yes he sacked 2 people. I dont know, but perhaps they were the people who failed to tell Willie that there were problems?
I think it was last year, that BASSA portrayed Willie Walsh in either a 'pirate' or 'burglar' style outfit in a newsletter, and included a 'letter from the future' bemoaning a time when changes had been undertaken.
Could BASSA perhaps stop the personal attacks, and the fiction, and deal with the facts, as they affect us NOW?
The past is the past. The CEO is the CEO. The world financial crisis is real, and affecting all businesses. Can you please release the figures that you have seen. It will take a change of tack, but crews will respect you for the blatant honesty. We have had it very good for a long time.
Please stop dwelling on a view of the past, and successfully negotiate our future in British Airways.
I am saddened by the way there are so many attacks on the CEO, and in one post the Chairman.
Why cant BASSA stop picking convenient bits of history and move forward?
Hedging is done by most businesses, and indeed by many individuals. Who hasn't bought a bottle of Scotch and filled their petrol tank on the day of the Budget...........just in case the Chancellor increases the relevant duties? That is hedging!!
Prudent companies also buy harvests when the price is low, or in the case of airlines with a known need for fuel, buy fuel when they think the costs is advantageous.
I find it somewhat ludicrous, and sadly bizarrely hypocritical, that BASSA is able to use this line to us Cabin Crew. Lets face it, we kniow a Sale, or a bargain when we see one......or we think we do!! Who hasn't bought things at Abercrombie and Fitch, Maceys, Walmart, Tesco or ASDA when they thought they were getting a good deal? This is exactly what BA were doing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
um.....and those attacks on 'price fixing' always seem to forget that people have actually gone to jail over it.......and they are still locked up!!
With T5, the buck stopped with Willie. Yes he sacked 2 people. I dont know, but perhaps they were the people who failed to tell Willie that there were problems?
I think it was last year, that BASSA portrayed Willie Walsh in either a 'pirate' or 'burglar' style outfit in a newsletter, and included a 'letter from the future' bemoaning a time when changes had been undertaken.
Could BASSA perhaps stop the personal attacks, and the fiction, and deal with the facts, as they affect us NOW?
The past is the past. The CEO is the CEO. The world financial crisis is real, and affecting all businesses. Can you please release the figures that you have seen. It will take a change of tack, but crews will respect you for the blatant honesty. We have had it very good for a long time.
Please stop dwelling on a view of the past, and successfully negotiate our future in British Airways.
Last edited by Andyismyname; 16th Jun 2009 at 02:36.
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Andy. You need to get real.
Walsh should have been sacked over T5, but two Directors were sacrificed in his place. Why?
It is all unravelling now. Here is a post from another forum:
There is a different option available at Gatwick...instead of working for free we are getting offered £80-100 to come in on our days off to do overtime because someone somewhere has cocked up the manpower figures...AGAIN!!
Walsh should have been sacked over T5, but two Directors were sacrificed in his place. Why?
It is all unravelling now. Here is a post from another forum:
There is a different option available at Gatwick...instead of working for free we are getting offered £80-100 to come in on our days off to do overtime because someone somewhere has cocked up the manpower figures...AGAIN!!
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Glamgirl:
Glamgirl, this kind of attitude has been around for decades. I'm not sure if the 'get as much out of it whilst doing as little as possible' behaviour is endemic in BA cabin crew or representative of society at large.
Either way, you highlight a major issue.
Some crew seem to think that getting to their destination with as much rest and as little personal inconvenience as possible is the main objective.
As opposed to recognising that they are paid to do a job that has the added bonus, when they have finished work, of arriving somewhere desirable (or not!) at the other end.
I'm looking at the loads for my next trip to India. Half full both ways.
To me that's extremely disappointing. To some of my crew (those that haven't gone sick because they 'don't do India') I'm sure it will be a cause for celebration.
WW doesn't get twice the quality of customer service for twice the money. He doesn't even get the best customer service for twice the money.
If it bothers you and me it enrages WW.
I remember asking a Gold card member for his thoughts on travelling with BA recently. He said that after refusing to fly with us for a while he had noticed a marked improvement in the cabin crew. He added 'it's amazing what the threat of losing your job can do to your motivation.'
Nicely put.
If everyone could just do what they're supposed to do when they're supposed to do it on the aircraft we would be the best in the world. Problem is, too many think passengers are an inconvenience and distraction.
This kind of attitude bothers me a great deal, and I just wish people could do their job as they're supposed to.
This kind of attitude bothers me a great deal, and I just wish people could do their job as they're supposed to.
Either way, you highlight a major issue.
Some crew seem to think that getting to their destination with as much rest and as little personal inconvenience as possible is the main objective.
As opposed to recognising that they are paid to do a job that has the added bonus, when they have finished work, of arriving somewhere desirable (or not!) at the other end.
I'm looking at the loads for my next trip to India. Half full both ways.
To me that's extremely disappointing. To some of my crew (those that haven't gone sick because they 'don't do India') I'm sure it will be a cause for celebration.
WW doesn't get twice the quality of customer service for twice the money. He doesn't even get the best customer service for twice the money.
If it bothers you and me it enrages WW.
I remember asking a Gold card member for his thoughts on travelling with BA recently. He said that after refusing to fly with us for a while he had noticed a marked improvement in the cabin crew. He added 'it's amazing what the threat of losing your job can do to your motivation.'
Nicely put.
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When I read the headlines of the Daily Mail today, it dawns on me what Walsh is doing. It is an act of Filicide.
I believe he is deliberately bankrupting British Airways so that it can be taken over cheaply and at the same time, the liabilities of the pension fund can be jettisoned and everyone's contracts will be changed as they are re-employed. He tried a management buy-out at Aer Lingus, but was rebuffed by Bertie Ahern. What is happening at BA is a modification of that.
Andy, I am afraid your loyalty to Mr Walsh and BA are greatly misplaced. Look after yourself and find another job, that is what I am going to do. British Airways has now become a laughing stock and a source of ridicule.
I believe he is deliberately bankrupting British Airways so that it can be taken over cheaply and at the same time, the liabilities of the pension fund can be jettisoned and everyone's contracts will be changed as they are re-employed. He tried a management buy-out at Aer Lingus, but was rebuffed by Bertie Ahern. What is happening at BA is a modification of that.
Andy, I am afraid your loyalty to Mr Walsh and BA are greatly misplaced. Look after yourself and find another job, that is what I am going to do. British Airways has now become a laughing stock and a source of ridicule.
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Walsh should have been sacked over T5, but two Directors were sacrificed in his place. Why?
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There is a different option available at Gatwick...instead of working for free we are getting offered £80-100 to come in on our days off to do overtime because someone somewhere has cocked up the manpower figures...AGAIN!!