BA and Project Columbus

[747-436]

Some of the agreements can cause problems during disruption. I have heard of a flight a few months ago that was heavily delayed. The crew would have been in hours to do it if they had reduced their turnaround at LHR by 15 mins from the Industrially agreed level of an hour and whatever it was. They didn't so the flight was cancelled.
That to me is appaling when for the sake of the crew reducing turnaround at LHR by 15 mins (They would have still had over an hour) a flight got cancelled and a hundred or so pax had to be put in hotels. How much did they cost BA??!?!?!?

And what is the big issue against performance management??

I can see big changes coming and there will probably be a fight a long the way, although this time I don't think BA will give in!!

[ltn and beyond]

The contracts that BA are proposing sound very much like the contrats in BA @LGW ??. How will the unions defend not accepting the contracts in LHR when they have already allowed it there??.

This will only bring BA cabin crew,and only those that want it, inline with all other UK carriers that they are in competition with, so you can understand where BA's thought come from.........

Good luck to all involved

[VS-LHRCSA]

The reason the unions didn't object to the LGW contract, as it is now is because it had actually been in existance since 1991 when BA bought Dan Air. SF LGW is basically the Dan Air contract with 777 flying added to it.

Objections weren't raised because it meant that the existing WW LGW crew would be sent to LHR (something many wanted) and EF LGW would get to do long haul flying.

This new thing at LHR is different entirely. A lot of people want to do 'mid-fleet' again but not on inferior conditions.

With regard to inflexibility, it cuts both ways. I've lost trips (and flight pay to boot) for the sake of 10-20 mins. Perhaps that is something they can look at?

[747-436]

With regard to inflexibility, it cuts both ways. I've lost trips (and flight pay to boot) for the sake of 10-20 mins. Perhaps that is something they can look at?

I guess that could be one way that BA could argue on cutting down the min turnaround times, that crew will benefit as well as less likely to be pulled from trips, and it would provide BA with more flexability.

[TheKabaka]

Since the new contract been touted around is for volunteers i would think it is difficult to strike over?

[bermudatriangle]

no change in terms and conditions can be imposed on a workforce.incentives and inducements can be offered to attract people to change from one contract to another.if the options are not attractive,mereley remain on your current pay,terms and conditions.if too few staff choose to transfer to the new contracts,then the operation will be very difficult to implement.waiting for natural wastage could take an eternity to replace current employees with new starters.BA is in a very weak position when proposing to change work practices for thousands of current employees.the columbus proposals may appeal to some and not others.existing staff have nothing to fear in the short term,as change will be a very slow and gradual process,if indeed any change takes place.

[silverstreak]

Project Columbus...

Its not really a 'new' concept. It happened to the 'out-stations' and more recently to the UK Regions. No one stood up, threatened to go out on strike for them did they... WW is now getting round to the cabin crew. Cutting EVERYTHING back to the bone.

Fortress LHR, T5 - whatever...

WW really must act now and do something. LH has aquired bmi. AF/KLM are already at LHR and planning bigger things at said airport. The OPENSKIES - European agreement allowing just about anyone into LHR...

What do BA have left? They have the name. They have their 'New Home T5', but is that realy enough to survive in this current climate?

How much more can Wee Willie cut?

Interesting times ahead.

[bermudatriangle]

with crude oil at $40 a barrel,cuts are not the main topic on the agenda of airline survival.delivering a consistent,high quality product on longhaul services is the key to attracting and maintaining a sound customer base.slashing costs,destroying service standards and demoralising the workforce are not the measures to ensure growth and profitability.BA are now delivering the highest levels of customer satisfaction since records began,compiled with reduced fuel surcharges and a superb product across the range of cabins,the outlook for the future is far better than most of the competition.the reduction in premium traffic as a result of the financial sector meltdown will have a negative effect,but emphasis on delivering a great product to the world traveller customers will ensure substantial load factors.T5 is now an enjoyable heathrow experience,just look at BA's punctuality levels,absolutely outstanding.change in this industry in inevitable,but change can only be achieved with the cooperation and enthusiasm of both management and employees.BA will offer incentives for crew to change working practices,some will appeal,some will not.some crew will change contracts and some will not.the key to the future is choice and respect for individuals preferences.BA is big enough an organisation to accomodate a variety of work and lifestyle choices.with this in mind,this airline can only prosper in the current economic climate.the competition had better be worried,BA will emerge as a more powerful airline in the future.i suggest investing any spare cash in BA shares,a superb long term investment.

[Carnage Matey!]

Have you ever considered using spaces and capital letters in your posts? We might read them if you did.

[aar4n5]

BA (and Virgin) have totally seen off any competion at LHR, the Air France LAX service has been a failure and the route has been dropped. The only new carriers with any real pressence at LHR are the American carriers Delta and Continental with a few trans-atlantic routes which BA alteady competed with out of LGW and BA offers a far better and consistent product than both.
The whole open-skies event has been a total anti-climax with little or no impact on BA profit margins, if anythinng it can be argued that BA have done well out of open-skies as it has enabled them to move there Dallas, Houston and Atlanta services to LHR resulting in higher yields. Loyal BA passengers and believe me there are many loyal executive club members are not going to desert BA in favour of any of these carriers that have tried to gain a big market pressence at LHR.
The operation at LHR is now running at a good efficiency with the opening of T5 and this has solved many of the airlines problems, if WW starts aiming his cost cutting mesures at frontline staff he is going to cause damage to the company were it cannot afford to fail.
Damaging the moral of loyal staff is going to damage the moral of loyal customers which as the airline always points it is an important time to be keeping are loyal customers.

[QRCC2B]

Perhaps it won't be that difficult if future recruitment is done straight into their new fleet? Also, what they might do is that every new aircraft that arrives to LHR (A380 and B787) will only be crewed by the crew belong to the new fleet?

[Classic]

There will be plenty of people willing to swop ont the new contract. Most of Gatwick will be willing to move to LHR onto a wider range of routes and aircraft, and are already used to the mixed long and short haul routine. They'll probably still earn more at LHR under the new hourly rate deal, and will be able to go part time too.

The part time option, as well as the mixed fleet flying, will attract many already at LHR, especially the lower paid new contract types, and the huge number of temporary contract cabin crew members who have completed their contracts will in many cases be ready to step in.

A few Bassa (old contract CSD) hotheads will shout and roar "over my dead body" in their usual manner but will have been sidestepped by BA's tactics and will just have to sit at home on their basic until they're made redundant.

Bout time too.

[stormin norman]

The pilots 24 point pay scale will be next on the list !

[pips]

wille walsh

mr walsh needs to take a pay cut as well ,and the board of directors too.
then we start to change- needs to come from the very top too.

[HZ123]

I fail to see that WW needs to take a pay cut. Here at BA LHR we have mostly enjoyed a great life with excellent T & C's for the last 35 years or more. Many of us still do but like with all good things it must come to end ortherwise there will be no-one in employment as BA will go down the tubes. At the end of the this we answer to passengers and shareholders, it is what they want not what we wish to have. If we take WW's pay it is moderate compared to many city positions, look at the mess thay are in?

[Human Factor]

Also, what they might do is that every new aircraft that arrives to LHR (A380 and B787) will only be crewed by the crew belong to the new fleet?

That is apparently in the plan.

[pips]

it start at the top

iam crew at lhr ,but change needs to come for the very top,if not we can
not move fwd as a company .

[Get Smart]

We don't earn that much

Everyone talks about how much money we earn at BA. I've been off sick and only on my basic. I clear £860 after tax. Now, of course, I'm not off sick all the time, but that is the basic after tax. I can't afford to take more than 2 weeks off at any one time. Most months, if I'm lucky, I'll clear £1600. I'm new contract. Everyone seems to forget that we're not all on the old contract?

[The Moo]

I agree. £13,000 pa basic and up to my max 900hrs. When I used to work at Bmi Basic was 19,000 and that was 4yrs ago. If I take leave or am off sick ( and thats 1 time in 4 1/2 years ) I cant even afford to pay my mortgage if I,m sick or on leave.
£863 pm with no flying. and they want me to take a pay cut . I think not .
Even with a 20 % pay rise on my basic ( and thats what some pilots got for changes to t & C ) thats still lower than my local bar staff.
The new contract says different terms and conditions and lower pay but better life style.

I like my current terms and pay , leave it alone.

Sources say BA is on target for a 5% profit/ operating margin this year. Dollar was hedged at 1.80 and currently 1.45 . Oil hedged at $80 per barrel , break evan for the company was 140.

All the managers have swallowed willies stuff. We are in great shape every other airline in europe would fold before BA and thats on curent terms.

This current meltdown is just another stick to beat the aviation industy down with. like 9/11. Terms never get better in good times only worse in bad.

[Human Factor]

I'm new contract. Everyone seems to forget that we're not all on the old contract?

BA aren't after the people on the new contract. My guess is when this is over, the people on the new contract won't notice a great deal of difference to their take home pay.