Facebook - VS crew is not alone... BA groups have similar problem
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Facebook - VS crew is not alone... BA groups have similar problem
According to The Register, the VA 13 were fired (as we already know from the VA Facebook thread), but there is a similar incident at BA, where BA staff were less than flattering post-T5 opening, including less-than-flattering comments about their customers.
The significant difference though is that BA didn't fire the 'perpetrators', but rather worked to resolve the problem by addressing the issue with the individuals internally. Or so it is claimed:
Virgin sacks the Facebook 13, BA customers stink ? The Register
Thought I'd share. :-)
S.
The significant difference though is that BA didn't fire the 'perpetrators', but rather worked to resolve the problem by addressing the issue with the individuals internally. Or so it is claimed:
Virgin sacks the Facebook 13, BA customers stink ? The Register
Thought I'd share. :-)
S.
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Pathetic really. Staff moan about their passengers-many passengers are awful and staff verbally moan about them, no-one can stop them doing that, are people really so sensitive that they can't deal with the fact staff DO moan about them and there is nothing they can do about it? Get a bloody life.
So we have a global economic crisis and the Congo crisis and people are fussed over a few comments on Facebook. Sad really.
So we have a global economic crisis and the Congo crisis and people are fussed over a few comments on Facebook. Sad really.
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Virginia, you know what is "pathetic really" ?
People who sign a contract and a code of conduct, and then promptly forget what they signed.
People who are too dim to privatise a Facebook page where they endanger their jobs by going against the contract they have signed.
People who don't even respect their own jobs.
People who are too stupid to understand that they are committing professional suicide
Really pathetic is defending these utter morons on PPRuNe, a website meant for aviation professionals.
People who sign a contract and a code of conduct, and then promptly forget what they signed.
People who are too dim to privatise a Facebook page where they endanger their jobs by going against the contract they have signed.
People who don't even respect their own jobs.
People who are too stupid to understand that they are committing professional suicide
Really pathetic is defending these utter morons on PPRuNe, a website meant for aviation professionals.
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Global economic crisis and Gongo crisis? Why complain about anything when you have those two crisis to worry about? That is not the issue!
Perhaps a bit of appreciation would be in order. Moaning about your customers. Bear in mind that these people are paying your salary. Being poorly treated and having to deal with passengers that are awful are part of the job. Still, it pays your salary. Take it or leave it. The decision isn't that difficult.
I can't believe their behaviour and that they actually did this openly with their identities revealed on a community. Face the facts and the outcome. The reality can be harsh!
Perhaps a bit of appreciation would be in order. Moaning about your customers. Bear in mind that these people are paying your salary. Being poorly treated and having to deal with passengers that are awful are part of the job. Still, it pays your salary. Take it or leave it. The decision isn't that difficult.
I can't believe their behaviour and that they actually did this openly with their identities revealed on a community. Face the facts and the outcome. The reality can be harsh!
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I think there are far bigger things to worry about than some badly paid ground staff who don't get any respect having a bit of a moan on Facebook.
I don't have a Facebook page and don't post anything under my real name on the Net.
So I don't agree with you and I guess that makes me pathetic. Frankly I have more pressing concerns than wondering what some faceless names on some random internet forum think of me and my thoughts. They are my thoughts and you calling me pathetic won't make me change what I think.
I don't have a Facebook page and don't post anything under my real name on the Net.
So I don't agree with you and I guess that makes me pathetic. Frankly I have more pressing concerns than wondering what some faceless names on some random internet forum think of me and my thoughts. They are my thoughts and you calling me pathetic won't make me change what I think.
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I'm sure you moan about your job jacquelinee. Or is that ok because you don't moan about it in public? Or are you offended that people who serve you moan about you? How dare people have thoughts and feelings.
Yes they made an error in judgement but I doubt any passengers even saw it. I wouln't take offence if staff in Tesco had a Facebook page complaining about customers. Why would I?
You cannot stop people having a good moan. Most of us just don't do it in a public area. Blah blah the customers pay your wages. Yes they keep the airline going but so do lots of other things. Why should we have to put up with rude and abusive people? Some people are just horrible. I will continue my independant thoughts thank you.
Yes they made an error in judgement but I doubt any passengers even saw it. I wouln't take offence if staff in Tesco had a Facebook page complaining about customers. Why would I?
You cannot stop people having a good moan. Most of us just don't do it in a public area. Blah blah the customers pay your wages. Yes they keep the airline going but so do lots of other things. Why should we have to put up with rude and abusive people? Some people are just horrible. I will continue my independant thoughts thank you.
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My opinion is my opinion and therefore by default cannot be wrong.
Seems to me that you think the pax are surplus to needs and what's the problem with front line employees biting the hand that feeds them (and a lot of other people who did nothing wrong or stupid).
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c130jbloke-yes how can someone's OPINION be wrong when it's their OPINION. Personal viewpoint.
I don't vent in front of pax, I don't mention my companies name, I don't post on Facebook. So what's wrong with venting in private? Or are you so perfect you never whinge? YES they were unwise to post on a public forum but that shouldn't be a sackable offence. Comments removed, spoken to by management and told not to repeat it.
OzzieO-thank you. Glad to see I'm not the only one.
I don't vent in front of pax, I don't mention my companies name, I don't post on Facebook. So what's wrong with venting in private? Or are you so perfect you never whinge? YES they were unwise to post on a public forum but that shouldn't be a sackable offence. Comments removed, spoken to by management and told not to repeat it.
OzzieO-thank you. Glad to see I'm not the only one.
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Perfect ? No, only for the first 30 seconds of my life, then downhill all the way 
Stupid ? No way. As for why I think you have lost the point, you have indirectly condoned their position by not condemning them. As for their "private opinion", totally agree but FB is not exactly private. If they use their employer's name in any situation then their "opinion" is what the company tells them. If they want to go free spirit, then great and good luck. But I am totally with the executive on this one and if they lost their jobs as a result of their stupidity then that's their problem.
Think about it, what other position could VS ( and I suspect BA too ) have adopted ? Passengers read FB too and the company position is that the average Mk 1 pax is right up there next to god. Treat the pax like crap and see where it goes....
Therefore, to protect the company ( your employer perhaps ? ) your position is that they were totally in the wrong and that to fire them was the logical and correct response.
See - easy really
Stupid ? No way. As for why I think you have lost the point, you have indirectly condoned their position by not condemning them. As for their "private opinion", totally agree but FB is not exactly private. If they use their employer's name in any situation then their "opinion" is what the company tells them. If they want to go free spirit, then great and good luck. But I am totally with the executive on this one and if they lost their jobs as a result of their stupidity then that's their problem.
Think about it, what other position could VS ( and I suspect BA too ) have adopted ? Passengers read FB too and the company position is that the average Mk 1 pax is right up there next to god. Treat the pax like crap and see where it goes....
Therefore, to protect the company ( your employer perhaps ? ) your position is that they were totally in the wrong and that to fire them was the logical and correct response.
See - easy really
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Considering that I started this latest thread, I'd like to just point out that there's no problem with having private (i.e. invite only) groups on FB which are for staff only (similar to the airline-specific sounding boards on PPRuNe), but the big problem that faces the airlines is that newspapers like The Sun got access to these postings, and that yes, because it is posted at a third-party (like PPRuNe or FB), it raises issues about the image of the company concerned, or how management views the threat to the image of the company concerned.
The reason I posted this was to show that it is not only Virgin Atlantic who have this, but British Airways have a similar situation on their hands, which, by the looks of it, they are trying to handle internally without involving the likes of The Sun. Social networking sites like LinkedIn (a SN site for 'professionals') and FB have their place, but these sites blur the line between who you represent between 9 and 5 (figuratively speaking) and who you represent the rest of the time.
Security organisations like Sophos have indicated in the past that FB and others, when left at default settings, still leak more information than what people intend (just look at the fiasco involving Bono and two young girls who met him a while ago and whose photos can be misconstrued as him having affairs while away from home), so if you DO have a FB group or belong to one, be careful what you post. Assuming that everyone on a group is kosher is not good practice (as PPRuNe members have intimated in the past).
So yes, Virginia and others are correct in saying that there are more pressing matters to think about, but remember, The Register is an IT-focused media organisation and because VS and BA both got caught on FB with their pants down so to speak, it is something that does affect people on here and the industry that everyone here is part of.
Just thought I'd point out that this is not about a slow newsday, but an early warning that if you belong to the customer-facing side of the airline business and you have groups like these scattered all over, you had better make sure that they are secured in such a way that gutter rags like The Sun, News of the World etc do NOT get access to their content.
S.
The reason I posted this was to show that it is not only Virgin Atlantic who have this, but British Airways have a similar situation on their hands, which, by the looks of it, they are trying to handle internally without involving the likes of The Sun. Social networking sites like LinkedIn (a SN site for 'professionals') and FB have their place, but these sites blur the line between who you represent between 9 and 5 (figuratively speaking) and who you represent the rest of the time.
Security organisations like Sophos have indicated in the past that FB and others, when left at default settings, still leak more information than what people intend (just look at the fiasco involving Bono and two young girls who met him a while ago and whose photos can be misconstrued as him having affairs while away from home), so if you DO have a FB group or belong to one, be careful what you post. Assuming that everyone on a group is kosher is not good practice (as PPRuNe members have intimated in the past).
So yes, Virginia and others are correct in saying that there are more pressing matters to think about, but remember, The Register is an IT-focused media organisation and because VS and BA both got caught on FB with their pants down so to speak, it is something that does affect people on here and the industry that everyone here is part of.
Just thought I'd point out that this is not about a slow newsday, but an early warning that if you belong to the customer-facing side of the airline business and you have groups like these scattered all over, you had better make sure that they are secured in such a way that gutter rags like The Sun, News of the World etc do NOT get access to their content.
S.
Last edited by VAFFPAX; 3rd Nov 2008 at 19:37.
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The axe I have to grind with this whole BA/VS Facebook affair is that if the people involved worked in another industry it would barely merit a mention anywhere. Let's say some Virgin Media staff had a Facebook page claiming that their set-top boxes (or whatever they flog) were likely to combust and that their satellite dishes enhanced the stone cladding on their customer's council houses. Or British Gas engineers made similar disparaging remarks about their customers and company's equipment, would they lose their jobs and/or provoke a media outcry? I don't think they would.
In the past, having worked as cabin crew and overseas as a holiday rep, I have detected resentment bordering on jealousy on several occasions from customers. I think this is because the industry is perceived as being glamorous and this fuels some people's resentments. They resent that you live out in the sun AND get paid for it while they save up all year for a week's holiday. They resent the fact that the seat they paid £500 for, you can travel in it for a fraction of that price. They probably don't resent the bank cashier who gets a far superior deal on her mortgage than they do or the supermarket shelf stacker who gets 15% discount on their shopping whilst they pay full whack because these jobs are unlikely to incite envy. Cabin crew are like sitting ducks waiting to be shot at and almost everything you do on and off board is open to public scrutiny. Quite why this should be I don't know, perhaps you don't agree with me?
Do I think VS made the right decision? Frankly yes, I think the crew's foolish behaviour left their positions untenable. However the disparity between the travel industry and other industries is quite perplexing.
In the past, having worked as cabin crew and overseas as a holiday rep, I have detected resentment bordering on jealousy on several occasions from customers. I think this is because the industry is perceived as being glamorous and this fuels some people's resentments. They resent that you live out in the sun AND get paid for it while they save up all year for a week's holiday. They resent the fact that the seat they paid £500 for, you can travel in it for a fraction of that price. They probably don't resent the bank cashier who gets a far superior deal on her mortgage than they do or the supermarket shelf stacker who gets 15% discount on their shopping whilst they pay full whack because these jobs are unlikely to incite envy. Cabin crew are like sitting ducks waiting to be shot at and almost everything you do on and off board is open to public scrutiny. Quite why this should be I don't know, perhaps you don't agree with me?
Do I think VS made the right decision? Frankly yes, I think the crew's foolish behaviour left their positions untenable. However the disparity between the travel industry and other industries is quite perplexing.