Virgin Blue Cabin Crew EBA
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All crew members should band together and not bother to respond to the survey.
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show is now live to air on surveymethods.com
is as expected
VB shopping list hasnt changed
even after "consultation" with us
they save at our expense
our shopping list hasnt been heard
neither has our request to barter through our broker
hope their KRA s are not what they seem
sham bargaining
time for consumer affairs to check on VB shoppers guide to the galaxy
wonder what Julia would say about the show
filling out survey still important though
otherwise will not be a balanced result on paper for IR law makers to see
price wars used to be over seat sales not staff wars
destructives $8m
collectives Yet to bid
is as expected
VB shopping list hasnt changed
even after "consultation" with us
they save at our expense
our shopping list hasnt been heard
neither has our request to barter through our broker
hope their KRA s are not what they seem
sham bargaining
time for consumer affairs to check on VB shoppers guide to the galaxy
wonder what Julia would say about the show
filling out survey still important though
otherwise will not be a balanced result on paper for IR law makers to see
price wars used to be over seat sales not staff wars
destructives $8m
collectives Yet to bid
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I refuse to do the survey- lots of the questions do not have a suitable answer/option - like they are trying to trap us into choosing the better of the evils. Besides which - they seemed to have ignored the results of the 1st survey anyway so it seems to be a token gesture to make us feel 'included'. Also in my roadshow we were not shown any slides and options a,b,c,d whatever was never explained.
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Slideshow
The slide show is now up on the intranet to look at... under eba tab on the cc page... interesting read, you grasp more when there's no talking with it
I don't want to do the survey either for the same reasons of being herded to give the answers they want, and the coments sure as hell won't make it to survey result charts.
But, on the other hand I think we should do the survey and make it known in the comments that it is biased and unreasonable, so if industrial action is sought, then it's documented that we tried.
I don't want to do the survey either for the same reasons of being herded to give the answers they want, and the coments sure as hell won't make it to survey result charts.
But, on the other hand I think we should do the survey and make it known in the comments that it is biased and unreasonable, so if industrial action is sought, then it's documented that we tried.
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Just a couple of things that I heard or asked when I was in the EBA Roadshow which might clarify a few things (although, I have heard that people are getting mixed information depending on WHO is taking the Roadshow for that day)
* Mr Tanner announced that overnights won't go all together. We would have to have bases at all ports where we overnight aircraft. (e.g. MKY, TSV, CNS, LST, HBA, CBR, OOL...etc) And could you imagine the start up cost of setting up bases in all these ports just for a few staff???
* Perth Base has been put on hold temproarily and may not open in 2009. Although they now have a pilot base there at the moment, as one poster mentioned, they have to as they cannot cross crew from EMB to 737 v.v. The increase in capacity at the moment is due to the mining contracts that we have to KTA and ZNE. With the economic downturn and the loss of hundreds of mining jobs because of this, who knows how long we can maintain these flights for during this period. If VB employed a couple of hundred crew and the bottom end fell out of the mining industry during the recession, VB would have to lay off all those crew, and perhaps shut the base down, costing them a lot of money. At the moment, it is cheaper for them to have an EMB/737 crew member (or CS infact) to sit on airport for 5 hours in PER which they are currently doing, and paying for them to overnight there.
* TOTALLY agree with Ozangel re middle management. We have 15-20 DM's and 2 BM's in Brisbane. In my calculations we have 10-15 DM's too many, and 1 BM too many. The DM's complain about having to manage 65-odd staff members when as CS's we are responsible for anywhere up to 700 guests A DAY!!!! Yet we don't complain about taking care of this many people. Hell, I heard that at EK, 1 CC Manager is responsible to 500 cabin crew members.... so what are our DM's complaining about??? None of them are even still current so they can't even comment to us on anything contained in our manuals. I think a cut to this department will save a considerable amount of money for the company. Why don't we start with job cuts from here. All those in agreeance raise your hands. Bring back some CCDL's, that way they are being more counter-productive.
* I too have done the calculations based on a 1680 hour year that we are doing at the moment and the proposed 1820 hour year that they want to do, and my calculations also come in short and for me that results in a NO vote straight up... You want me to work more hours in a year, then pay me for them. Don't tell me that I get an extra 10 days off in a year... that is irrelevent as I am working and extra 140hrs a year....It also means another month of Propels I need to write....
* We are always being told that we are paid to work 140 hours a month, but rarely are we rostered the full 140hrs a month. Say we are rostered 125hrs for the month, but pick up an extra 20 hours in Available pay. They are saying that 15 of those hours we are double-dipping because we have already been paid for those 15 hours. Well, why aren't we being rostered 140 hours a month if that is what we are being paid for.... There is a problem with Rostering not with the crew.... Don't blame us for something the company agreed to back in 2002 when they agreed to have available day pay and only roster us 125hrs a month. They need to fix the problems in their own backyard before trying to blame us.
* Here's one to think about. With the new 5 levels of CC they are looking at. If you were on CC5 and a new hire was on CC1, who do you think they would call out first if they needed someone for overtime??? Food for thought.
* Oh, and Cargoattendant, don't go round condoning graffiti in the aircraft. Not is it only against the law as you are tampering with an aircraft, but this is my work environment. How would you like it if I came into your bedroom and scrawled "VOTE NO" all over your bedroom walls??? Or any wall in your house for that matter. I spend a large majority of my day in these aircraft and I found it appalling and utterly childish when I saw it last time. In fact, I reported it last time. There are other more mature ways of discussing this and its not defacing company property.
* Also FYI, regardless of what Management tell you, there is already a project in the pipeline about reducing crew on a 170 to 2. I was told by management that this wasn't going to happen, then at a roadshow I had, it all came out in the wash. I have heard rumours of 3 in a 700, but to this date, yet to be confirmed.
*Well, that is my say.... Oh, one more thing, if you are not a union member, consider joining. Remember, there is strength in numbers. And Mr Tanner said he would be very very very surprised if at least 20% of CC were union members and wouldn't believe it if the number was higher.... Well, little does he know.... not very much I say.
Let me know your thoughts on my post people.
Cheers. ;o)
* Mr Tanner announced that overnights won't go all together. We would have to have bases at all ports where we overnight aircraft. (e.g. MKY, TSV, CNS, LST, HBA, CBR, OOL...etc) And could you imagine the start up cost of setting up bases in all these ports just for a few staff???
* Perth Base has been put on hold temproarily and may not open in 2009. Although they now have a pilot base there at the moment, as one poster mentioned, they have to as they cannot cross crew from EMB to 737 v.v. The increase in capacity at the moment is due to the mining contracts that we have to KTA and ZNE. With the economic downturn and the loss of hundreds of mining jobs because of this, who knows how long we can maintain these flights for during this period. If VB employed a couple of hundred crew and the bottom end fell out of the mining industry during the recession, VB would have to lay off all those crew, and perhaps shut the base down, costing them a lot of money. At the moment, it is cheaper for them to have an EMB/737 crew member (or CS infact) to sit on airport for 5 hours in PER which they are currently doing, and paying for them to overnight there.
* TOTALLY agree with Ozangel re middle management. We have 15-20 DM's and 2 BM's in Brisbane. In my calculations we have 10-15 DM's too many, and 1 BM too many. The DM's complain about having to manage 65-odd staff members when as CS's we are responsible for anywhere up to 700 guests A DAY!!!! Yet we don't complain about taking care of this many people. Hell, I heard that at EK, 1 CC Manager is responsible to 500 cabin crew members.... so what are our DM's complaining about??? None of them are even still current so they can't even comment to us on anything contained in our manuals. I think a cut to this department will save a considerable amount of money for the company. Why don't we start with job cuts from here. All those in agreeance raise your hands. Bring back some CCDL's, that way they are being more counter-productive.
* I too have done the calculations based on a 1680 hour year that we are doing at the moment and the proposed 1820 hour year that they want to do, and my calculations also come in short and for me that results in a NO vote straight up... You want me to work more hours in a year, then pay me for them. Don't tell me that I get an extra 10 days off in a year... that is irrelevent as I am working and extra 140hrs a year....It also means another month of Propels I need to write....
* We are always being told that we are paid to work 140 hours a month, but rarely are we rostered the full 140hrs a month. Say we are rostered 125hrs for the month, but pick up an extra 20 hours in Available pay. They are saying that 15 of those hours we are double-dipping because we have already been paid for those 15 hours. Well, why aren't we being rostered 140 hours a month if that is what we are being paid for.... There is a problem with Rostering not with the crew.... Don't blame us for something the company agreed to back in 2002 when they agreed to have available day pay and only roster us 125hrs a month. They need to fix the problems in their own backyard before trying to blame us.
* Here's one to think about. With the new 5 levels of CC they are looking at. If you were on CC5 and a new hire was on CC1, who do you think they would call out first if they needed someone for overtime??? Food for thought.
* Oh, and Cargoattendant, don't go round condoning graffiti in the aircraft. Not is it only against the law as you are tampering with an aircraft, but this is my work environment. How would you like it if I came into your bedroom and scrawled "VOTE NO" all over your bedroom walls??? Or any wall in your house for that matter. I spend a large majority of my day in these aircraft and I found it appalling and utterly childish when I saw it last time. In fact, I reported it last time. There are other more mature ways of discussing this and its not defacing company property.
* Also FYI, regardless of what Management tell you, there is already a project in the pipeline about reducing crew on a 170 to 2. I was told by management that this wasn't going to happen, then at a roadshow I had, it all came out in the wash. I have heard rumours of 3 in a 700, but to this date, yet to be confirmed.
*Well, that is my say.... Oh, one more thing, if you are not a union member, consider joining. Remember, there is strength in numbers. And Mr Tanner said he would be very very very surprised if at least 20% of CC were union members and wouldn't believe it if the number was higher.... Well, little does he know.... not very much I say.
Let me know your thoughts on my post people.
Cheers. ;o)
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ccguy,
That's exactly what I said about the bases in a previous post but
no-one wanted to hear it. New bases have to make ECONOMIC sense to the company before they will pour money into it. There are a lot of fixed costs associated with opening a base and paying for even hundreds of overnights won't rival that cost. Overnights only cost the company $4 mill per year (as stated in my roadshow), when you look at the overall costs for the company as a whole it is not very high. It doesn't come close to fuel costs or even the leasing of their permanent office spaces around the country. It's hardly the "fat" they are presenting it is. This whole "new bases" talk is designed to panic crew into voting for a DTA, even a ridiculously low one.
I totally agree with the DM situation. No other airline that I know of has such a high ratio of DMs to crew. Crew are already managed on flights by CS's, it's enough. The company needs dedicated crew who give their all and fly the flag for their brand. Get your priorities straight.
I agree, optimise your rosters guys, that's within your control and should be your first port of call.
Yes, it's not an "extra" ten days off a year at all. It's the additional days rest required to accomodate a higher work load in the year. This is not a freebie we're being offered here. QF have 9 days off per 28 day roster but they are also paid additional $ over 120hrs per month. So we can deduct from that, a QF roster would average less than 120hrs per month (260hrs per year less than VB want us to work, or put another way 26 fewer working days in the year) and that is why they have 9 days off.
Please don't deface the aircraft. It's bad enough our passengers treat them like a dump, without crew doing the same. I'd like my workplace to be respected and cared for. I don't want to spend my 2 and half minutes a day in which I am expected to eat a meal, cleaning up your handiwork. I don't need to be told how to vote, I have a mind of my own, and I sincerely hope so do the rest of the crew.
That's exactly what I said about the bases in a previous post but
no-one wanted to hear it. New bases have to make ECONOMIC sense to the company before they will pour money into it. There are a lot of fixed costs associated with opening a base and paying for even hundreds of overnights won't rival that cost. Overnights only cost the company $4 mill per year (as stated in my roadshow), when you look at the overall costs for the company as a whole it is not very high. It doesn't come close to fuel costs or even the leasing of their permanent office spaces around the country. It's hardly the "fat" they are presenting it is. This whole "new bases" talk is designed to panic crew into voting for a DTA, even a ridiculously low one.
I totally agree with the DM situation. No other airline that I know of has such a high ratio of DMs to crew. Crew are already managed on flights by CS's, it's enough. The company needs dedicated crew who give their all and fly the flag for their brand. Get your priorities straight.
I agree, optimise your rosters guys, that's within your control and should be your first port of call.
Yes, it's not an "extra" ten days off a year at all. It's the additional days rest required to accomodate a higher work load in the year. This is not a freebie we're being offered here. QF have 9 days off per 28 day roster but they are also paid additional $ over 120hrs per month. So we can deduct from that, a QF roster would average less than 120hrs per month (260hrs per year less than VB want us to work, or put another way 26 fewer working days in the year) and that is why they have 9 days off.
Please don't deface the aircraft. It's bad enough our passengers treat them like a dump, without crew doing the same. I'd like my workplace to be respected and cared for. I don't want to spend my 2 and half minutes a day in which I am expected to eat a meal, cleaning up your handiwork. I don't need to be told how to vote, I have a mind of my own, and I sincerely hope so do the rest of the crew.
Last edited by AirborneSoon; 10th Feb 2009 at 21:53.
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What happens if we vote NO?
What happens if we vote NO?
I have only done some brief reading on this subject, but it looks like they can't force us onto a less than favourable agreement. The Workplace Relations Amendment Act 2008 (the Transition Act) commenced on 28 March 2008.
The Transition Act introduced a new no-disadvantage test (NDT) which applies to all workplace agreements made after the commencement of the Act.
In order to pass the no-disadvantage test, the agreement must not result, on balance, in a reduction in the overall terms and conditions of employment under any reference instrument (eg. current EBA).
However, the agreement may still be approved even if it does not pass the no-disadvantage test if approval of the agreement would not be contrary to the public interest (eg. part of a reasonable strategy to deal with a short term crisis and assist in the revival of the business).
Virgin Blue can also apply to the AIRC to terminate our current EBA as it has passed the nominal expiry date. However, 'the AIRC may only terminate a collective agreement if it is satisfied that it is not contrary to the public interest to do so including having regard to the views of and the effect of terminating the agreement on the parties bound by the agreement.'
If you'd like to obtain more information, see the 'Agreement making and the no-disadvantage test policy guide PDF' available from the Australian Government Workplace Authority site.
I have only done some brief reading on this subject, but it looks like they can't force us onto a less than favourable agreement. The Workplace Relations Amendment Act 2008 (the Transition Act) commenced on 28 March 2008.
The Transition Act introduced a new no-disadvantage test (NDT) which applies to all workplace agreements made after the commencement of the Act.
In order to pass the no-disadvantage test, the agreement must not result, on balance, in a reduction in the overall terms and conditions of employment under any reference instrument (eg. current EBA).
However, the agreement may still be approved even if it does not pass the no-disadvantage test if approval of the agreement would not be contrary to the public interest (eg. part of a reasonable strategy to deal with a short term crisis and assist in the revival of the business).
Virgin Blue can also apply to the AIRC to terminate our current EBA as it has passed the nominal expiry date. However, 'the AIRC may only terminate a collective agreement if it is satisfied that it is not contrary to the public interest to do so including having regard to the views of and the effect of terminating the agreement on the parties bound by the agreement.'
If you'd like to obtain more information, see the 'Agreement making and the no-disadvantage test policy guide PDF' available from the Australian Government Workplace Authority site.
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No Vote
Yes vote = agreement will come in even if we are worse off and will stay that way forever even after the global crisis
No vote = IR law makers will safeguard our current conditions
No brainer then
No = safer fairer conditions
No vote = IR law makers will safeguard our current conditions
No brainer then
No = safer fairer conditions
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lets think clearly
Hey, I may not agree with everything that happens, but I have had other jobs in other places. Many people I work with haven't REALLY worked full time outside of aviation....
I Applied for the job, no one came to my home and begged me to work here.
I work an average of 30 hours a week ( and yes, I am tired too) and get paid quite Ok for the effort. A lot more then I got in hospitality and for a lot nicer job. I don't have to clean grease, kitchen bins or make up beds in a hotel. My cleaning is sometimes gross but not Every day.
I have lots of ex-Ansett friends and I have lots of friends who have lost their jobs in banks and in automotive industry. Perhaps we could learn some lessons and work together as a union and as a company. I don't know about you but I would rather see all of us with a job then all of us without one.
my old Base Manager was a pr**k and I am glad he is gone. I don't really know the new ones but I have had two CCDM's and they have both treated me with dignity and respect when i had some tough personal times and I know lots of crew who have had them do right by them as well. I really like and trust that lady doing the CS stuff too, I wish she would be at the road shows. anyway, I want to pay my mortgage, live a happy life and I don't mind working hard. I think we need to keep the emotion out and think about long term here.
I Applied for the job, no one came to my home and begged me to work here.
I work an average of 30 hours a week ( and yes, I am tired too) and get paid quite Ok for the effort. A lot more then I got in hospitality and for a lot nicer job. I don't have to clean grease, kitchen bins or make up beds in a hotel. My cleaning is sometimes gross but not Every day.
I have lots of ex-Ansett friends and I have lots of friends who have lost their jobs in banks and in automotive industry. Perhaps we could learn some lessons and work together as a union and as a company. I don't know about you but I would rather see all of us with a job then all of us without one.
my old Base Manager was a pr**k and I am glad he is gone. I don't really know the new ones but I have had two CCDM's and they have both treated me with dignity and respect when i had some tough personal times and I know lots of crew who have had them do right by them as well. I really like and trust that lady doing the CS stuff too, I wish she would be at the road shows. anyway, I want to pay my mortgage, live a happy life and I don't mind working hard. I think we need to keep the emotion out and think about long term here.
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You really need to get an education on how a business stays in business. Look around you people. I have had 5 friends lose their jobs since christmas? I may be a bit older and know what a recession is........this is seriously bad times. i hear some people at VB in IT got made redundant already, I feel sorry for them and their families.
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Alvinski01,
People ARE thinking longterm when they talk about voting no. Once conditions are gone, they are gone for good. Yes you are right, we get paid "OK" right now but do you want to be paid "not OK" in the future?
Just because you have had a worse job in your life doesn't mean the current one is overpaid for the work. There are much better paid and easier jobs in the world too, but what does that have to do with this one?
No-one here is questioning the worth of a CCDM, but what they are questioning is why 100% of all cost savings must come directly from your paypackets. They are pointing out areas where savings could be gained within the company elsewhere. Especially when other airlines have proven that it's not necessary to have such a high ratio of managers to crew.
The company is not about to go under, this is simply their wishlist of paying their crew less money because it would be nice for them to do that. You on the otherhand will be left with the reality of $50 a week less pay for the rest of the time you work there. No-one is going to bring down the cost of your living expenses as a result, nor will you get an automatic payrise when times are good again. Take your own advice and think longterm..
People ARE thinking longterm when they talk about voting no. Once conditions are gone, they are gone for good. Yes you are right, we get paid "OK" right now but do you want to be paid "not OK" in the future?
Just because you have had a worse job in your life doesn't mean the current one is overpaid for the work. There are much better paid and easier jobs in the world too, but what does that have to do with this one?
No-one here is questioning the worth of a CCDM, but what they are questioning is why 100% of all cost savings must come directly from your paypackets. They are pointing out areas where savings could be gained within the company elsewhere. Especially when other airlines have proven that it's not necessary to have such a high ratio of managers to crew.
The company is not about to go under, this is simply their wishlist of paying their crew less money because it would be nice for them to do that. You on the otherhand will be left with the reality of $50 a week less pay for the rest of the time you work there. No-one is going to bring down the cost of your living expenses as a result, nor will you get an automatic payrise when times are good again. Take your own advice and think longterm..
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dear thinking clearly
this 30hrs a week you speak of
dont forget to add the time you spend doing non-recorded work or on call at home for which you get no credit
dont forget to add the time you spend at work which is not recorded or included in your sign on to sign off
Im certain your hospitality salary was for a service only role
not safety plus service
most of us, the IR law makers and the public expect that crew salary will be higher to cover the safety skill set
the Hudson River incident cemented this for the public in general
despite the recession and cries of loss v huge profit
the public and the airlines are still donating to charity
theres no all stations alert meetings with all employees
business101 we wont go under if current crew stay on our current conditions and our current salaries
obviously we've got to give them something but they wont bargain
they are dictating what we should give up to fill a bucket
they control what we do at work and now they are trying to take over more control of our home life by asking us to take home less and give up more of our personal lives by working more hours
businesses go under because of mismanagement from wasting money or not working smart
not because it didnt get the chance to rob peter to pay paul
lets not agree to get robbed to pay into a bucket
this 30hrs a week you speak of
dont forget to add the time you spend doing non-recorded work or on call at home for which you get no credit
dont forget to add the time you spend at work which is not recorded or included in your sign on to sign off
Im certain your hospitality salary was for a service only role
not safety plus service
most of us, the IR law makers and the public expect that crew salary will be higher to cover the safety skill set
the Hudson River incident cemented this for the public in general
despite the recession and cries of loss v huge profit
the public and the airlines are still donating to charity
theres no all stations alert meetings with all employees
business101 we wont go under if current crew stay on our current conditions and our current salaries
obviously we've got to give them something but they wont bargain
they are dictating what we should give up to fill a bucket
they control what we do at work and now they are trying to take over more control of our home life by asking us to take home less and give up more of our personal lives by working more hours
businesses go under because of mismanagement from wasting money or not working smart
not because it didnt get the chance to rob peter to pay paul
lets not agree to get robbed to pay into a bucket
Last edited by shoppingcart; 12th Feb 2009 at 22:26.
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People ARE thinking longterm when they talk about voting no. Once conditions are gone, they are gone for good. Yes you are right, we get paid "OK" right now but do you want to be paid "not OK" in the future?
Vote NO!
Tell your friends.
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How to save $8 million dollars in the Cabin Crew department.
1. Reduce the number of Development Managers and move these resources back into flying. Most cabin crew don't need to be micro-managed.
2. Reduce the number of Propels, thus reducing the amount of hours that need to be allocated to each CS to complete this requirement each month. One or two Propels per crew member per month is sufficient or a system where those that aren't meeting expectations or are excelling are given feedback. Feedback saying that crew are meeting the expectations of their job is redundant.
3. Roster crew more efficiently. There are crew members who consistently receive rosters between 130-135 hours and others that only receive 90-100 hours. Many flights aren't crewed until several days before and rely on AVL resources - this costs money and would be avoided if rostering was more efficient.
4. Get rid of CCOS. What is the point of having an operational support team for cabin crew? Shouldn't our direct managers be providing this type of support?
Well said. Do not be fooled into thinking that we will be able to negotiate better conditions when the economy recovers. Why would they pay us more when we're happy to work for less?
I accepted a job that meant I was away from home for half the month and acknowledged the fact that I would be in an environment pressurised at 6,000 to 8,000 ft. However, I see my salary as compensation for the unique lifestyle this job demands from me and the environment in which I work.
I can't speak for everyone but I know I wouldn't be doing this job for a salary of $46k per year (with superannuation only being paid on the $36k base). The other $10-20k we earn is from overtime, overnight allowances, AVL days, and crew commissions. Take most of that away and it's just another below-average income job.
I'm happy to negotiate my conditions to keep the company running but NOT until they reshuffle resources and really make some cost-savings before trying to pay cabin crew less. Why should any of us take a pay-cut to fund poor management decisions and pay rises for other departments and managers?
1. Reduce the number of Development Managers and move these resources back into flying. Most cabin crew don't need to be micro-managed.
2. Reduce the number of Propels, thus reducing the amount of hours that need to be allocated to each CS to complete this requirement each month. One or two Propels per crew member per month is sufficient or a system where those that aren't meeting expectations or are excelling are given feedback. Feedback saying that crew are meeting the expectations of their job is redundant.
3. Roster crew more efficiently. There are crew members who consistently receive rosters between 130-135 hours and others that only receive 90-100 hours. Many flights aren't crewed until several days before and rely on AVL resources - this costs money and would be avoided if rostering was more efficient.
4. Get rid of CCOS. What is the point of having an operational support team for cabin crew? Shouldn't our direct managers be providing this type of support?
People ARE thinking longterm when they talk about voting no. Once conditions are gone, they are gone for good.
I accepted a job that meant I was away from home for half the month and acknowledged the fact that I would be in an environment pressurised at 6,000 to 8,000 ft. However, I see my salary as compensation for the unique lifestyle this job demands from me and the environment in which I work.
I can't speak for everyone but I know I wouldn't be doing this job for a salary of $46k per year (with superannuation only being paid on the $36k base). The other $10-20k we earn is from overtime, overnight allowances, AVL days, and crew commissions. Take most of that away and it's just another below-average income job.
I'm happy to negotiate my conditions to keep the company running but NOT until they reshuffle resources and really make some cost-savings before trying to pay cabin crew less. Why should any of us take a pay-cut to fund poor management decisions and pay rises for other departments and managers?
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You said there are better paid and easier jobs in the world too.... A list would be great if you have one. Just because if there are, maybe it's worth a look. I could offer it to some of the people I fly with who are determined to groan all the time. We have to be professional here and not blame everything on the managers. I chose to work here and in this field. I have more time off work then in any job I have ever had. So, I love my job.
Like all of us, i want a fair deal. It is silly to think that Cabin Crew is the only area asked to cut back. Have you actually asked for answers to these questions?? I have and I know of several people who have been told that their contracts won't be renewed and that they are not replacing anyone who has quit.
I also read the newspapers and have lots of friends in the UK. It is going to get tough here and so we need a good deal! AND we need to work with the company not against it. Otherwise, why not go get one of those easier jobs for better pay that you mentioned??? What are those job????? That I am qualified for????? hmmmmmmm. Maybe I'd better take some classes with my 10 days off a month to be prepared.
Like all of us, i want a fair deal. It is silly to think that Cabin Crew is the only area asked to cut back. Have you actually asked for answers to these questions?? I have and I know of several people who have been told that their contracts won't be renewed and that they are not replacing anyone who has quit.
I also read the newspapers and have lots of friends in the UK. It is going to get tough here and so we need a good deal! AND we need to work with the company not against it. Otherwise, why not go get one of those easier jobs for better pay that you mentioned??? What are those job????? That I am qualified for????? hmmmmmmm. Maybe I'd better take some classes with my 10 days off a month to be prepared.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Some keen observations..
A friend of mine has just told me about a conversation they had with a manager from another department that stated several interesting points without any prompting:
1. The ratio of CCDMs to cabin crew was ridiculously high.
2. The company isn't doing as well as it should because of all the money that is being fed into V Australia - they had recently been in LA for a few months helping with the set up.
3. There have been about 6 confirmed redundancies in their department and other jobs had already been merged.
4. Cabin crew rostering isn't optimal at the moment.
Some interesting points to think about, especially as they are observations coming from someone outside the cabin crew department.
1. The ratio of CCDMs to cabin crew was ridiculously high.
2. The company isn't doing as well as it should because of all the money that is being fed into V Australia - they had recently been in LA for a few months helping with the set up.
3. There have been about 6 confirmed redundancies in their department and other jobs had already been merged.
4. Cabin crew rostering isn't optimal at the moment.
Some interesting points to think about, especially as they are observations coming from someone outside the cabin crew department.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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don't you love it when a company second string stooge gets on pprune pretending to be part of the team..........
alvinski go play with the other chipmonks and leave the real crew to bat on and vote no to the shameful and totally unprofessional EBA circus
AT
(as before yes I know it's not my battle but I'm just supporting a few good friends who deserve much more than to be treated like brain farted 15 year olds)
alvinski go play with the other chipmonks and leave the real crew to bat on and vote no to the shameful and totally unprofessional EBA circus
AT
(as before yes I know it's not my battle but I'm just supporting a few good friends who deserve much more than to be treated like brain farted 15 year olds)
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alvinski what does a fair deal or a good deal look like for you ?
dont you see that it is the company not working with us
they are telling us what they want to take out of our contract and not letting us have any official say into what we want to put forward as cost savings or productivity offers
the surveys told them in black and white what we didnt want
they still served it up to us as an option for our new contract
isnt that autocratic rule ?
i want discussions around my contract changes to be democratic
not just a token democratic vote on autocratic changes thought out by management
the management have but one mindset which is cost savings in payroll
whether this is to cut jobs or to cut conditions
the jobs and conditions that they are cutting are taking from the very people who make this company stand out above others for the travelling public
including IT people who are involved in the guest experience as well as staff systems!
need to work with the company not against it
they are telling us what they want to take out of our contract and not letting us have any official say into what we want to put forward as cost savings or productivity offers
the surveys told them in black and white what we didnt want
they still served it up to us as an option for our new contract
isnt that autocratic rule ?
i want discussions around my contract changes to be democratic
not just a token democratic vote on autocratic changes thought out by management
the management have but one mindset which is cost savings in payroll
whether this is to cut jobs or to cut conditions
the jobs and conditions that they are cutting are taking from the very people who make this company stand out above others for the travelling public
including IT people who are involved in the guest experience as well as staff systems!
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The Reality of the impending recession
At the moment, the reality is that we currently have 127 cabin crew members more than what we need now that 5 aircraft will be taken off line and used as operational spares. Management is asking all crew who would be interested in taking annual leave, leave without pay, temporary part-time, or perhaps redeployement. No-one should sell out to what is being offered, however, we also need to think of worse case scenario. Redundancies are a reality and no matter how much the management are trying to avoid it, it will happen. I personally don't want to take a pay cut either, however, I know this much, I still want a job with Virgin Blue at the end of the day. If it meant the difference of taking a slight pay cut or loose my job, I know what I would prefer. If you had to leave, imagine how hard it would be to secure another job in this current economic environment.
I have a mortgage to pay, bills to pay, food to put on the table just like a lot of other people in the company, but unlike a number of cabin crew members, I have taken my mortgage out based on my base wage, not on my base wage plus allowances. In fact, your a fool if you over-commit yourself.
The oldies who have been there like myself have less to worry about than the newies. IF they have to offer redundancies then it will be last on first off as confirmed by Mr Tanner in the EBA Roadshows, not based on performance like some DM's have been telling their crew members. I was told by some crew recently that DM's have been informing crew that the lowest performing crew members will be the first to go..... I don't think so.
In a perfect world, I would love to see the company put a clause in the EBA that states if the world economy takes a turn for the better and the company starts to make money hand over fist, that we would be able to get a better remuneration from this point. Hard I know because the company are reluctant to have a clause like this, but hey, its worth trying.
To all those who say that Virgin Blue will never collapse, never say never. No-one ever thought that Ansett would collapse after 63yrs of operation, and yes they were badly managed, but they collapsed when there was no impending recession or financial woes of the world.
The moral of this story is that YES, I too want a better deal. I hate the idea of being paid less for more hours, as I mentioned in my last post, but if I had to choose between taking what is on offer or risk loosing my job, it would be a very hard decision to make. At the moment it is only 127 people from our department at risk, who knows what may happen in 6 mths time when we will have more of an idea of whether we will be in recession or not, but after this time the amount of excess crew could be greater.
I need to read the final document to see what they offer. At the moment I really want to say NO, but I have to see what the document says. I guess it is nice to know that senior management are taking a 25-30% paycut. Anyway, that is my rant for today. Look forward to hearing all your comments on the issue.
Cheers.
I have a mortgage to pay, bills to pay, food to put on the table just like a lot of other people in the company, but unlike a number of cabin crew members, I have taken my mortgage out based on my base wage, not on my base wage plus allowances. In fact, your a fool if you over-commit yourself.
The oldies who have been there like myself have less to worry about than the newies. IF they have to offer redundancies then it will be last on first off as confirmed by Mr Tanner in the EBA Roadshows, not based on performance like some DM's have been telling their crew members. I was told by some crew recently that DM's have been informing crew that the lowest performing crew members will be the first to go..... I don't think so.
In a perfect world, I would love to see the company put a clause in the EBA that states if the world economy takes a turn for the better and the company starts to make money hand over fist, that we would be able to get a better remuneration from this point. Hard I know because the company are reluctant to have a clause like this, but hey, its worth trying.
To all those who say that Virgin Blue will never collapse, never say never. No-one ever thought that Ansett would collapse after 63yrs of operation, and yes they were badly managed, but they collapsed when there was no impending recession or financial woes of the world.
The moral of this story is that YES, I too want a better deal. I hate the idea of being paid less for more hours, as I mentioned in my last post, but if I had to choose between taking what is on offer or risk loosing my job, it would be a very hard decision to make. At the moment it is only 127 people from our department at risk, who knows what may happen in 6 mths time when we will have more of an idea of whether we will be in recession or not, but after this time the amount of excess crew could be greater.
I need to read the final document to see what they offer. At the moment I really want to say NO, but I have to see what the document says. I guess it is nice to know that senior management are taking a 25-30% paycut. Anyway, that is my rant for today. Look forward to hearing all your comments on the issue.
Cheers.